Thoughts, After Reading All

College Majors Music Major
101

“Scholarships aren’t necessarily hard to come by but full scholarships are extremely rare for music.”

I really wish more schools would be more transparent about how much funding there is for music students.

(DISCLAIMER: the following is just what I’ve heard / learned from a limited # of schools researched. I’m not trying to claim I know any more than anyone else! :wink: )

As far as conservatories, (a handful) have basically said that institutional scholarships range from something very small like $500 - $1000 to full tuition / full ride. Well, that’s a big range! Of course, they’ve also mentioned that the criteria for those top scholarships go to kids with all three of these things (usually in this order):

1 - the instrument / voice type, etc that the school is in most need of that year

2 - are at the top of their talent pool

3 - something else - maybe grades tip the scale, maybe some other interesting thing about them....something that makes them stand out from the other applicants that already meet #1 and #2

I get it. I really do. It depends on the talent. But it would be so nice to know either an average/median scholarship amount or that there are X full rides, full tuiton, 1/2 tuition, etc. available and X spots in the program. It is so time consuming and expensive to apply and audition…all without knowing if it’s even realistically possible to get in the ball park of affordable.

I’ve found non-conservatory programs to be more transparent. We have found many schools that have guidelines for how much $ you are eligible for. My D has 4 schools (non conservatory) on her final list that we can clearly see:

1 - exact $ or range of $ she qualifies for based on academic criteria

2 - $ available for talent based award (typically a much smaller $ amount & range, but stacks with academic)

3 - (in some cases) additional $ qualified for based on participation in something else (such as an honors program)

Obviously, she still has to get in, but at least this makes it possible to do a best case ballpark and a worst case ballpark.

102

I hear you.

My estimation is that if S could simply apply to UNT and get in, that would be a done deal with its large size, jazz focus, good quality, and really awesome pricing for S’s stats. However, since it is audition and studio based, there is room for doubt (doubt which S is working on removing) about being admitted. If there were other programs of similar size/focus/quality/cost, those would be added to the list. Some of the other programs which have caught attention are those where there seems to be decent size/focus/quality, such as USC Throton or Miami Frost. Their only issue is cost, which can be mitigated by scholarships to become excellent choices.

103

@GotThatSwing96 I also fell in love with Oberlin - I think it’s a special place. And I agree with your thoughts about jazz programs, especially about developing your voice. The larger programs like Berklee felt too big to my son. I know the New School has a neat program where you can study with practically anybody and, at NEC, students often study with musicians outside their instrument.

104

@GoForth have you visited UNT yet? or are you waiting until auditions?

105

@drummergirl - We are waiting for the day the Lynn Seaton Bass Workshop registration opens up for 2016, to make it part of the summer tour. Our current classical bass instructor was a student of Jeff Bradetich, and our current jazz bass instructor knows Lynn Seaton (to an extent I do not know because I did not follow up). All initial feedbacks are good.

106

RE: posts #97 and #99

My D and I definitely have our own ranking system. Even with our own “system” it is sometimes hard to “place” a particular school. My D is currently spending a lot of time really examining each schools class requirements and offerings. The ones that give a sample 4 year plan are so very helpful. Combining that info with considerations like location and opportunities, we’re finding is that she is going to have to give up something, deal with something that isn’t ideal, etc. with every single option. So, I envy you for having at least one school on the list that seems like it is everything your S is looking for.

Personally, I just recently scoured YouTube for videos of students accepted / attending the schools my D is interested in. I formed my own opinion on how she compares to the videos found and then sent links to her teachers and asked for their opinions on how she stacks up. My D wanted no part in this comparison process, but she did indicate that she would like to be in a program where she is “middle to upper” talent. She definitely does not want to be bottom rung, just thankful to have been accepted, struggling to get opportunities, etc. She doesn’t necessarily want to be the “best one there” either, though she’d prefer that to being bottom of the talent pool. This is mainly because we feel like performing opportunities are of really high importance and there would (I assume) be more opportunities for the stand out students but she would also like to find other highly talented students to collaborate with. (While in college, my D will be giving up her band that gigs fairly regularly. That is a really hard thing to do and she is hoping for similar college opportunities / experiences.)

Also, it stands to reason that there will be more $$ in those scenarios as well. We’ve come to the realization that we also have our own price we are willing to pay for each school. The price range is pretty big actually. There may be a school that we would only want to pay what we can reasonable pay out of our current salaries…leaving savings intact. OTOH, there may be a school we are willing to go into what some would consider too much debt for. Most fall somewhere in between. So, if she were to have the good fortune of offers from all or most of her schools applied to, we will go down the list (1st choice to last choice) and she will likely choose her highest ranked school that is also at or below our previously decided maximum price. Of course, a full ride or full tuition at any of the schools would be hard to pass up. It would leave $ to spend on other ways to help launch a career somewhere down the line. Which, at least in the commercial music world, may be the best idea anyway.

107

In reference to comment #97, my son rejected a lower ranked school where he got a very large scholarship in favor of a better school with a still good, but less generous scholarship because he felt that he would be the best musician in his instrument on the day he walked in the door at the lower ranked school. He wanted to be somewhere where he would be challenged by the other students. He is happy with his choice.

108

@dbandmom - I would not say there is a “perfect” fit with one of S’s choices, but there are characteristics that S decided are not important enough to measure, compared to ther characteristics, in the pre-offer phase. The academic rigor of the elective courses at his choice could be argued about. The nearness to big city gigs at his choice could be argued about. The current idea is that if quality of instructor and peers (chops and networking) is good and affordability is good, then it is a contender.

109

@electricbassmom - I think S may take the risk to leave off his list the schools where he would suspect he would walk in as the best (call that School X). In such a case where School X would have been his only admit, it may instead be a gap year with private instruction and re-evaluation.

110

@GoForth that workshop sounds like a great opportunity! @dbandmom I think your D reviewing the actual course offerings/requirements is key, and something not enough students do. This will probably sound naive but neither me nor my S spent much energy comparing him to other prospective or accepted students. Nor did I insert myself into his relationship with his teachers, other than one conversation with a teacher at his Saturday conservatory program who offered some feedback on fit with the programs we were considering. Pretty spot on too, now that I think about it!

111

Just a thought, FWIW. My son gets to gig quite a bit. His school jazz program is all combo-based and the top combos are the program “boosters”; they do professional gigs to raise funds. He averages 2-3 gigs a month throughout the year. As a parent, I’m thrilled because we already have a drawer full of unused discount cards from fundraisers for band, baseball, whatever. The kids love the experience; getting dressed up, all the accolades. BUT I also think that gigs might be over-rated as “necessary” experiences for young jazz musicians. It does motivate them to work on repertoire and, if you’re shy about performing, I’m sure it helps, but from a time-value perspective, they get so much more in a combo rehearsal with a teacher or masterclass setting, where they get nit-picky feedback about all the detailed nuances of jazz ensemble playing.

112

Scholarships are not transparent, and how they are given out depends on the program, how high level it might be, how much money they have for scholarships, it all adds up into what they are willing to offer. In an ideal world, if a music student is outstanding, they would get a ton of scholarship money in the form of merit aid, but that may be more myth than reality at a lot of programs (and every program is different, like another poster, I am talking from what I have with a cross section of schools I am familiar with.

-With conservatories, in general, their aid tends to be need based, in other words, if you have a high family income they are likely not to give a lot of merit aid, even if the kid is that talented, they generally will give a nominal scholarship. Obviously, it also depends on the level of students in the conservatory, too, a top level student whose family income is high might get a really strong scholarship to a conservatory that is trying to ‘boost its image’, whereas a conservatory like a Juilliard, because it admits so many really talented students, bases it on need entirely or almost entirely, and from what I know of the other highly competitive conservatories, the same thing applies there, Merit aid is tempered by financial need either partially or fully. If you have so many highly talented kids, it gets hard to say things like "who is the best’ or some such.

At other programs, it depends on how much they want the student, the really strong student can be very attractive to an up and coming music program, to help make their name, so they will offer a lot more, it is very much supply and demand. If someone is a world class English Horn player and a school needs good ones, then they will go for that.

You can’t even really go by past performance, a school that was generous a couple of years ago may not be so generous today, if for example their endowment took a hit, or they admitted a lot of kids who needed aid and it strained things, so when people say “can you tell me programs that have good aid”, it can be difficult to assess that, it all depends.

What this boils down to is you never know, and I would be as careful of excluding schools assuming they are too expensive/not enough aid as in applying to a school assuming that they will give good aid as the only criteria.

113

@drummergirl Doesn’t sound naive at all. I have read on here multiple times advice about getting opinions as to where your kid stands, etc., but didn’t really know how to go about that.

We have known a few of D’s teachers for a very long time. The one she started out with, comes to D’s bands gigs, we go to hers, they do open mics together, we know each others families…it was no problem asking her to look at a few videos and give her opinion. Our budget for audition traveling is limited, so I really don’t care to waste time and money trying to get her into programs if she really has slim to no chance of getting in. So, the video review was the best I could come up with to try to narrow things down.

114

I just think that approach could be misleading @dbandmom but maybe I’m underestimating youtube data! You have to narrow down somehow, though, and I admire your effort. The jazz world is somewhat small so we probably didn’t have the same challenges.

115

One thing you all seem to be missing is in your assumptions about 'big fish small pond verses…small fish big pond" which is rather simplistic. Conservatories have several different “ponds” for kids to swim in. Whereas the big A-list orchestra, where smaller fish get bumped out by grad students six years their seniors get the story, what’s missed is that in these schools the rest of the students have lots and lots of opportunities , opportunities that are far more challenging than what a kid might get at being first stand in a smaller school’s A orchestra. College/Conservatory/Whatever, it’s what the student makes of what is offered, even if it means creating their own chances.

116

Jb1966 totally agree about making your own opportunities. My vp d has always been a “hustler” making her own opportunities and taking advantage of whatever and wherever she can in order to practice her craft.

One of the things her dad and I encouraged her to do in her freshmen year was to volunteer for the annual gala, the audition process, in the administrative office …virtually anything that could give her exposure to the most people within her conservatory. Skip forward to this year and she again volunteered at the annual gala and when one senior could not sing her solo because she was sick, my d was asked to step in and sing for the governor, the mayor, the provost, president of the university, and several renowned alumni with only two minutes to prepare. Now that’s experience in being performance ready at all times!! Additionally her scholarship from freshmen to sophomore year nearly doubled, so finacially it’s been worth it as well.

D also had the opportunity to participate in a summer program under scholarship. Some of her other students didn’t understand why she got that opportunity but they did not. She explained to them that her dad found it during an Internet search and she applied and was accepted. “Oh, so what you’re saying is that we need to be more aggressive?”

Likewise when the mother cover for Amahl and the night visitors became ill and could not continue, my d made (yes literally made) her good friend and fellow vp sophomore go to the artistic director and ask to be assume the cover role. Skip to a month later and now her friend has a guaranteed show.

Perhaps instrumentalists and jazz performers are used to this type hustling for gigs, but in my extremely limited classical music/vp experience it seems that they are not used to making their own way.

Long and rambling I know…Bottom line, I think wherever you are, you can make opportunities. They just may not be made for you. You may have to be prepared to swim in another pond for a little bit or swim your way to the top of the fish pond.

117

There are no generalizations with music, no easy rules, that is true. It really depends on the student to a large extent as well, and on what drives them. A talented kid where they are by far one of the best players in the school, where the rest of the kids in the orchestra and chamber are levels below him/her, may find that they aren’t being driven forward as much as they would be in the ‘shark tank’ or whatever you call it, another kid wouldn’t care (for example, if you have a kid coming from a pre college program that had top level orchestra and chamber, or a very top notch youth orchestra, the orchestra may not mean as much to them). One of the things in any music program is the student needs to make the most of it, they aren’t going to spoon feed you or guide you like that, and a lot of it is using what is there, as someone said. The key is both the match between the student and the program, and the amount of work the student is willing to do, and that varies with each student.

118

Talent has a lot to do with it too. I know posts don’t address this much, but it does matter just like hustle does. What comes out of your mouth or out of your instrument still has to be art. Hustle and self promotion are what drives so many kids, but you have to have the goods when you get the opportunity. And opportunities abound at schools. My kid just got a line a fairly obscure set of scholarships that actually fit her skill sets to a T, but nobody would have come to her with the info, she had to divine it from the dry ground. I think the natural enemy of a lot of talented kids is having a sense of entitlement. Whether they come from coming through a certain program or have had a famous teacher or have parents with musical lineage, the sense of waiting for the world to come to them is fatal.

119

Talent is the baseline, but “all that and $5 will get you a cuppa coffee” (at Starbucks.)

120

Not true. Talent gets you a ticket to look God in the face.