<p>woah, i think you guys took my comment the wrong way. I was just trying to sympathize with the MIT student in regards to stress. I wasn’t saying that I had the same amount of stress as MIT students because I don’t have the knowlege to say that but I was saying that I can relate to pressure. I bet everyone’s gone through periods with high amounts of stress and I don’t think anyone can say that they’re under more stress or has more work than someone else because, the truth is, No One Really Knows What Another Person Is Going Through!</p>
<p>Hello friends. I wrote the omgsostressed “Meltdown” blog post linked by OP. I just skimmed this thread. I try not to engage in conversations sparked by my blog post, to avoid stifling them. Here, however, I will, because this is my community too and I don’t like where this is going. Some thoughts–</p>
<p>tara121, I’m sorry your senior year of high school sucked. Hopefully MIT won’t suck quite as much. I encourage you to reread PiperXP’s original response to you in a more positive way. Her goal was not to “put [you] down like this,” it was to point out that many people who come to MIT underestimate the stress, often because they, like you, have challenged themselves in high school and maybe have even been really stressed out in high school as a result. Underestimating the stress at MIT can result in unfortunate decisions and unfortunate priorities and expectations, and, eventually, a breakdown. For example, you might take too many classes, or you might think it’s important that you be more hardcore than the people around you, or you might expect straight As. All of these things can lead to avoidable stress, isolation, and loneliness. I would know. ;)</p>
<p>
If being the most stressed out person around is important to you, your experience at MIT will not be a happy one (and, quite possibly, nor will the rest of your life). Your goal here should not be to be the best; nor should it be to be the most badass. Your goal should be to get the tools you need to change the world for the better. Chances are, at some point in your MIT experience you will feel like you’re being challenged to a “I’m more hosed than you are” battle. When this happens, you need to be able to step back and remember that engaging will not be healthy–not for you, and not for anyone else involved. If stepping back is tough, then, well, it won’t be healthy–not for you, and not for anyone else involved. (I want to add that it might be worth it for you to reread your response to PiperXP. If people “took [your] comment the wrong way,” it was likely because of its tone.)</p>
<p>And why not extend that to our stress-competition about MIT, Caltech, and everywhere else. I personally like to think that MIT is more stressful and hardcore than most other schools. That makes it easier for me to justify the levels of stress I feel at MIT, the ways I’ve changed as a person since coming here, and the grades on my transcript. If someone tells me that’s a “load of crap” it makes me a upset. I can imagine that had I gone to Penn State instead of MIT, I would be taking a gazillion classes and making life damn hard for myself. Maybe just as hard as it is now, magnified by not having the prestige of MIT as a safety net. If someone at MIT tried to tell me that I was not hardcore or that my stress was unjustified because I don’t go to MIT, I would again be upset. I don’t think it’s productive to argue about who’s more stressed out, unless you’re going for irony. Maybe we can instead think and talk about the sources of student stress and how we can make things better. Let’s aim for mutual respect and compassion.</p>
<p>My tone is obviously not the way I meant it. I am not competitive when it comes to stress in any way, actually it’s quite the opposite. I enjoy relaxing just like anyone else.
Wow I can’t believe so many bad assumptions could be made about me in such a short period of time. I really do suck at presenting myself on the internet.
Although you guys are trying to help, I really don’t think you hit the mark on any of my comments. Im sorry if I offended anyone because honestly, I just wanted to give my opinion. Because isn’t that what this post was origninally for anyway???</p>
<p>lidusha and unicameral2013 are correct about interpreting my first post. </p>
<p>(I’m not sure why rebel11 and nefliege are trying to put words in the mouths of others, though. I guess stickman arguments are easiest to fight.)</p>
<p>And I do think the other points of MIT/Caltech/similar being much more difficult than other colleges is a valid one, having taken classes at two other colleges myself and experiencing this first hand. </p>
<p>But that’s somewhat tangential. MIT/Caltech/similar are certainly going to be harder than almost every high school in existence. I took APs, I took standardized tests, I filled out apps, I did time-consuming extracurriculars - and I’m sure there were times when I was stressed by it, but to compare it to MIT mindboggling to me. </p>
<p>I’ve seen too many people come to MIT and get torn down, want to give up, actually give up, etc. Many people who come here are not going to get what they expect, and I have no reason to think you’re particularly special enough to not deal with that if you come here.</p>
<p>The internet sucks at conveying tone :P. I wasn’t trying to put you down, nor have I made many assumptions about you (other than “you’re a normal prefrosh who has no clue what you’re getting into”), nor do I think poorly of you now. I just think you’re a normal prefrosh :)</p>
<p>“normal prefrosh” that’s exactly what i am! You know me so well! (again with assumptions)</p>
<p>^ If you’d like to give me information to convince me that you’re are not within the bounds of “normal prefrosh”, feel free too! But most prefrosh are indeed “normal prefrosh”, and it’s reasonable to treat you with that starting assumption until you differentiate yourself.</p>
<p>tara, are you a prefrosh? Have you been admitted yet? Sorry if it was obvious haha I didn’t see that.</p>
<p>I’m a parent of an MIT grad who is now a physics grad student at Harvard, and I have a brother-in-law who dropped out of MIT as a senior. Personally, I think the blogs that talk about IHTFP are really, really helpful. Back in 2007, both Jessie H. and Lulu L. used to post really hair-raising blogs about the stress at MIT.</p>
<p>My daughter had a reputation in high school for always being in bed and asleep at 10pm and stress free. She was accepted to MIT and ivy league schools – everywhere she applied, in fact – and chose MIT over Yale, her other top choice. She read all the blogs about the workload, and we read Pepper White’s book (now published by MIT Press): The Idea Factory. White paints a pretty accurate picture of the stress undergrads face there. After conversations with her uncle, who holds a fairly grim opinion of MIT even now, we encouraged her to avoid the “I’m hardcore, I’m gonna take the hardest versions of every class I can find” mindset, thinking she should ease in. That did help her avoid stress the first two years.</p>
<p>Despite this, she went blind for a period during her junior year while taking Junior Lab as a physics major. The diagnosis was optical migraines, and they were so severe for a period that she had to be guided to the med center. That was the worst, I suppose. When I heard about it I felt pretty stressed myself.</p>
<p>But in the end, she loved MIT as much as she loved it coming in as a freshman. And if you were to ask her today, how she would compare Harvard and MIT, her answer is always: I learned far more at MIT. It was always both for her, but perhaps more on the side of: “I have Truly Found Paradise.” For each student, it will be different. Impossible to predict.</p>
<p>The ****ing contest about MIT is harder than other schools and hs stress vs. MIT stress are irrelevant.</p>
<p>The point is, MIT is hard for several reasons. One reason might be that the classes are harder/more rigorous than at other schools, but, in all honesty, I don’t believe this to be the most important factor. The most important thing is that people at MIT are stubborn and they overload themselves. MIT students very much have a “do all the things” attitude, myself included. </p>
<p>You can graduate on time from MIT with just 48 units (4 classes) a semester and no extracurriculars. But, this is not what most people do. I know somebody who takes the expected 48 units a semester, but she is also in undergrad leadership in her major and dorm, has a UROP, and does a ton of other outside stuff. I have another friend who took 57 units one semester (5 classes), all of which were in technical subjects, did poorly, but has continued to take above 48 units almost every semester since (he even accidentally registered for 72 units this past semester (including 12 units of UROP) and proceeded to drop 2 classes because there was no need to do so much at once). Basically, MIT students don’t really HAVE to be as stressed out, but we do it to ourselves.</p>
<p>Now on to my personal anecdote, which may be a useful story for some. I made the mistake of taking 63 units and doing a UROP last semester. It’s not that I can’t handle ˜60 units (I actually did pretty well the semester prior on 60 units, without too much stress), it’s that I chose the wrong set of classes. In my attempt to do all the things, I was taking 5.12 (Orgo 1, which is challenging and time-consuming), 3.014 (a lab class/CI-M, also time-consuming), and 3.016 ( a really hard class). Anyways, I made the mistake of being too ambitious (as Course 3, I had no need to take 5.12, much less having to take it alongside the other 2 hard classes. I’m a sophomore, it could’ve been postponed to a better semester) and of hubris (I didn’t expect 3.014 or 3.016 to be too bad. After a 25 page technical paper and a 35 hour pset, I definitely did not feel the same way). The most tragic part of the semester was after a stretch of about 4 weeks of sleep-deprivation, I ended up with an upper-respiratory infection, which eventually transformed into pink eye. I consider myself lucky: the stress affected me almost exclusively physically, little effects mentally and emotionally (aside from a minor, “I don’t know what I’m doing with my life” crisis, but that was a lot more whining and being annoying and insecure than anything as serious as depression).</p>
<p>I want to stress once again that I (not MIT) am responsible for this. I took too harsh of a courseload, and I also did not help it with awful time management and a good amount of procrastination. At the end of the semester, I actually performed well academically, but I regret my decision. I should’ve either taken a lighter courseload, or have been more ok with a slip in performance for the sake of sleep and my health. I forgot to take care of myself, and I don’t want to allow that to happen again.</p>
<p>I’ve often read on the blogs and in CC that if you’re admitted to MIT, you can handle the workload. Maybe it’s because I’m in the middle of all of it, but I’m starting to doubt this message. There are several people I know (on the order of 5) who have had to leave MIT for academic problems. I also have a couple of close friends who have been forced to leave for medical (metal/emotional) reasons. I have another friend whose self-esteem has been so decimated by MIT that I feel like he should’ve left MIT a couple of semesters ago. It would be easy for me to say that while the potential to succeed was there, they were irresponsible, or outside factors, or various other excuses for it. However, I’ve come to consider that MIT is not right for everyone, and that when it isn’t it can sometimes have very negative consequences. I’m not sure at the moment, I feel like I need the perspective of being out of the trenches before I can fully evaluate life within them.</p>
<p>Anyways, I don’t want to end this on such a negative note. What I would like you to take away from this post is that, for the most part, MIT is as much of a hell as you want it to be. Know your limits (P/NR is a good time to figure this out), plan accordingly, and please make sure to take of yourself. This, along with being organized, will make MIT surmountable. Note, that while MIT may sometimes make you feel like this:
[GLaDOS</a> is a meany - YouTube](<a href=“GLaDOS is a meany - YouTube”>GLaDOS is a meany - YouTube)</p>
<p>MIT students are still capable of doing stuff like this:
[MIT</a> Gangnam Style (MIT ???) - YouTube](<a href=“MIT Gangnam Style (MIT 강남스타일) - YouTube”>MIT Gangnam Style (MIT 강남스타일) - YouTube)</p>
<p>I have a lot of friends who love MIT. Some of whom are very much hosed but still convinced that it is the best place for them and sad about the fact that they will eventually have to leave. I myself believe that I am at my happiest at MIT, and that it’s worth moments of academic misery. I’m trying to change my attitude about things to make life easier and more manageable, to make sure I am taking care of myself. It is definitely a learning process and I am an example of a person who has enough mental/emotional stability/support and enough organizational/academic capabilities to come out of this in tact. And, I believe I am pretty average by MIT standards, so I’m confident most will do the same.</p>
<p>Hey Piper, Didn’t put words in anyone’s mouth. If you take the time to read my post you’d see I did no such thing.</p>
<p><a href=“I’m%20not%20sure%20why%20rebel11%20and%20nefliege%20are%20trying%20to%20put%20words%20in%20the%20mouths%20of%20others,%20though.%20I%20guess%20stickman%20arguments%20are%20easiest%20to%20fight.”>quote=“PiperXP”</a>
[/quote]
I have a lot of respect for you, but I would be really glad if you told me which part of my posts caused you to say that, because I’m really quite upset that after trying to express my opinion in a reasonably polite way, I feel I’m met with undue hostility.</p>
<p>First post:
"I think the original post is a very good idea, and thank you (and the blogger!) for that. I’m guessing that knowing that others go through the same “rough patches” helps to get through one’s own ones.</p>
<p>On another note, it does seem to me that MIT has a bit of a special cornflake syndrome. All I mean is there are other schools around the world with as bright and as hard-working students. And what’s wrong with that? "</p>
<p>Second, last post:
"For sure However, the post I quoted below and some of the ones I encountered on this forum, while not inflammatory, do give the feel that its authors think that unless you’re at MIT, you don’t know what hard work is.</p>
<p>Quote:
Caltech is similarly hard as MIT. No other school is. It’s just a fact. "</p>
<p>For the record “some of the posts I encountered on this forum” means “this forum”, not “this thread”.</p>
<p>The mere fact that I disagree, does not mean I’m looking for trouble and trying to ■■■■■. I’m just trying to express my opinion, which, even if it’s wrong, I still should have the right to express, no? I wasn’t making things personal, so I can’t really understand how was I “trying to put words in the mouths of others”. </p>
<p>Really, really, really, really.</p>
<p>EDIT:
Okay, I think I see now. Was it
“Caltech is similarly hard as MIT. No other school is. It’s just a fact.” = “give the feel that its authors think that unless you’re at MIT, you don’t know what hard work is.”
that you and collegeallum314 are angry with me about?
That was just a feel… It was obviously wrong, and I’m sorry I ventured to express it. That’s just how that post felt to me and how I understood it… I didn’t mean to purposefully put words into other people’s mouth. </p>
<p>Wow, I’m really quite upset now :(</p>
<p>In response to nefliege - </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I see no one claiming that bright and hardworking students don’t exist outside of MIT (or that if they did, it was wrong). This comment struck me very much as a strawman*/for the purpose of being inflammatory. </p>
<ul>
<li>I apparently said “stickman” earlier. Woops.</li>
</ul>
<p>EDIT:</p>
<p>In response to your edit 
I’m not angry at you! No one’s perfect (including me… including me a lot O.O). I point these things out, but don’t take this as me holding a grudge against you. I wouldn’t be responding to you if I thought you were going to be unreasonable - I think your 6:31 post shows that you are generally reasonable.</p>
<p>So if you’re upset because you’re worried about what I think of you, don’t be :)</p>
<p>Woops . Really?? Really?</p>
<p>
Oh, no, it really really wasn’t meant to be! Admittedly, I much more had in mind some posts I have read here when I used to read these forums regularly… And this discussion just reminded me of them. Maybe it was too haste a mental jump, and, after some thought, I do apologize.</p>
<p>I do sometimes like to disagree <em>blush</em> But I don’t particularly enjoy being inflammatory. Because it just kills the chance for any reasonable discussion that actually has some point.</p>
<p>And I think I was mostly upset because your and collegealum’s responses made me feel like my words have really been inappropriate… When I haven’t intended them to be so.</p>
<p>And, I have taken up too much of the thread with my drama already. I think it’s all good now… Is it all good? :)</p>
<p>All good :P</p>
<p>As my little contribution - I’d guess one place where the mathematics degree is baseline rather challenging, perhaps comparable to Caltech and MIT, is Chicago.</p>
<p>The baseline required for success at the undergraduate level at most schools (including Ivy Leagues or top public schools) doesn’t seem to be as high. Like collegealum says, this may or may not be a blessing in disguise.</p>
<p>I know a professor at a top school in mathematics who didn’t take Math 55, and didn’t seem to have any qualms about it. That said, I envy those who can keep up with and enjoy the intensity of a class like that, if any!</p>
<p>Caltech, MIT and UChicago.</p>
<p>I agree that Chicago was a notable exception in this discussion of academic rigor. But I disagree with what seems to be one of the premises of this conversation, which is that foreign universities can simply be neglected.</p>
<p>As an Indian, I can guarantee that the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) is at least comparable in rigor to these 3 universities. What it lacks in general education requirements, it makes up in depth in a chosen field. Due to lack of technology in the classroom, (relatively) poor professors, and a (relatively) unrefined course structure, IIT does give you a less bang for your buck (an hour of studying at IIT is worth less than an hour at MIT or UChicago), but in terms of pressure a student is put under, and sheer effort put in by students, I would be surprised if IIT doesn’t match favorably (or unfavorably depending on how you look at it) to MIT or UChicago.</p>
<p>And I’m certain that IIT is not an isolated red-herring. PsyTech (referenced in the article the OP posted) seems to be another example of stressful and rigorous colleges…</p>
<p>@mathboy98
Isn’t math 55 at Harvard considered one of the hardest freshman math courses around? If so, how is it that Harvard does not measure up to the rigor of colleges like MIT and UChicago? Is it that Math 55 is the exception to the rule?</p>
<p>Actually, we’re in a demographic hole right now, which means that there aren’t many people our age (early 20s) alive in Russia because the early 90s were not a convenient time to be making babies in Russia (there was not much food). I do not expect PhysTech to be as rigorous as it was when my parents went there, and I do not expect it to be as rigorous as MIT, simply because it cannot be as selective at this time. I might be wrong, of course. I’ve never been there.</p>
<p>Just adding my two cents: the stress doesn’t matter. If you have the opportuntiy to go to a place like MIT, forget the very word “stress” and remember the word “live.”</p>
<p>^ Believe it or not, if you come to MIT, you’re not going to spend four years in continuous awe that will make all your problems better.</p>