Thoughts on Org1 & Org 2

<p>Parents & Students - Interested in getting opinions here. My daughter wants to take for summer A 2011- Organic Chemistry I and summer B Organic Chemistry II.
Personally my husband & I feel that those courses are too difficult to do in one summer.
We'd rather she take Org I all summer along with an easier course but she argues she can handle it. She is a good student but not superior. Currently in Ag/Bio Engineering and will be ending second year this summer. She really doesn't have a strong reason for doing this other than she wants to get those two courses behind her as her friends have told her they are very difficult courses. Which, for us, is all the more reason to take them at a slower pace. She counters with all of her courses are hard and there is nothing to pair with in the fall except for "hard" courses. Thoughts? Thank you in advance for opinions.</p>

<p>as long as she’s ok with the fact that her every waking moment of this summer will need to consist of organic chemistry if she wants to do well, then be completely burnt out right before fall semester starts… then sure. Personally I think that would be my idea of hell, but that’s just my opinion</p>

<p>Thanks for the responses…tough decision…we’ll have to discuss with her over the Thanksgiving break. Obviously, we are leaning towards thinking it is not a good scheduling idea - she’ll have to convince us that our $'s won’t be wasted.</p>

<p>I’ve been meaning to chime in on this for a while and finally have the time to type this all out.</p>

<p>First, I want to briefly explain where I am coming from. I am a science student with a very high GPA at UF and have taken most of the major “hard” (basic) science courses at UF (physics, bio, gen chem, orgo, and beyond) that pre-health and pre-grad school students take. Before UF I went to an extremely rigorous and well known preparatory school. I am effective enough to take 3-4 science classes at once in a semester and even took Orgo 1 along with Physics 2 and Bio 2 and labs. After finishing Orgo 1 and 2, though, I realized there has been almost NOTHING like them.</p>

<p>Now, having taken Orgo 1 in Spring and Orgo 2 in the Fall, I can sympathize with her feelings of wanting to get it over with. I cannot tell you how excited I was to be done with it because I drew the sequence out over an entire year. I think it is good enough to take Orgo 1 in a Fall/Summer and Orgo 2 with lab in the Spring/Fall so you finish the entire sequence in 8/9 months instead of a year. I can further see where she is coming from because it seems that she is a second year student and has yet to take any organic ( I am assuming she cannot or will not take Orgo 1 this upcoming Spring. If she can she should). That can be tough because most people finish Organic by the end of the second year or middle of the third year. So there is probably increased pressure to “keep up” with peers. But I CANNOT comprehend taking the entire sequence (and some even do it with lab!) over 3/4 months of summer.</p>

<p>First, you AND your daughter have to understand something very serious and important: </p>

<p>Undertaking both classes consecutively Summer A and B would require support from YOUR end as a parent and effort from HER end as a student. She will do nothing but study organic chemistry. She should not be working to pay for things and she should not be volunteering, partying, taking other classes, or anything. If this cannot be done it is a dealbreaker.</p>

<p>Now, I know you and her will have to talk about whether or not she is academically capable of this. Let her be aware that Organic over summer tends to be harder because of the curve. Most people taking it over summer will either do well or do very badly. The curve looks more bimodal than the distribution during a fall or spring semester. MANY people doing badly, especially those in Organic 2 Summer B, drop the class. This leaves only those performing well enrolled in the class. That pushes the mean/median up, making it harder to get a good grade… especially because this happens very suddenly at the end of the 6 week semester… Just when you thought you had that A in the bag!</p>

<p>Honestly, I have met a lot of people who took Orgo 1 Summer A and Orgo 2 over Summer B. Many simply just wanted to get the sequence done and were willing to take lower grades that they know they would not have earned if they took the classes during 15 week semesters. And I have met TONS of people who have dropped one or the other. And I have also met a few who <em>planned</em> to take the Orgo 1, Orgo 2, and Orgo Lab summer triple whammy only to drop Orgo 2 before it started to stop the pain. I cannot even comprehend this because of the Organic Lab; it goes out of order of the material you learn in lecture. I had already completed Orgo 1 and was taking Orgo 2 and lab together and noticed that a lot of stuff we learned in Lab would only come weeks later in lecture. Imagine if this was happening and you had not even finished Orgo 1 yet!</p>

<p>Honestly, Orgo is a like learning a language. It takes a lot of time of <em>careful</em> study to learn it… it is very elegant and intricate. It is not a class you can memorize your way through and do well in. Orgo 1 is especially important because it is basically there to prepare you for Orgo 2 which is where the real material gets thrown at you. Most of Orgo 1 is spent learning stereochemistry and regiochemistry and basic fundamental principles and reactions of organic that you build upon in Orgo 2.</p>

<p>Ultimately I think the best option is to take just Orgo 1 Summer C with maybe one other Summer C class. That gives her Orgo 1 (which I thought was harder than Orgo 2) at an okay pace and she will only have to take Orgo 2 and lab in the fall. </p>

<p>But I will also say that if I had completed Orgo 1 and 2 and Lab over summer with good grades it would have been VERY VERY nice. I honestly cannot comfortably say I would be able to handle it.</p>

<p>Mystifire - I can’t thank you enough (and hsb1104) for your well thought out replies.
I’m going to have my daughter read these responses over Thanksgiving break and hopefully she will reconsider her approach. I really think she is setting herself up for a very bad summer and I don’t feel it is necessary. Again, thank you for taking the time to lay out your response and trying to help :).</p>

<p>I took Orgo 2 this previous Summer B, and as someone who had A’s in all my previous science courses, it took everything I had to make a B. All the best students take orgo in the summer to keep up with the pace, I wouldn’t recommend the trouble…</p>

<p>excellent point landonlichtman! yes, one’s experience in orgo is heavily dependent on the people in your class… they are the ones who make the curve the curve afterall.</p>

<p>Everyone has given great advice. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lol and I mean that in the most respectable way possible. The material is simply not catered for a 6 week course. Unless, like they have stated in much more eloquent terms, your child plans to make some type of sleeping arrangements inside the chem building and library. And as Mystifire stated, if one does not have a solid foundation in Orgo 1 before continuing on to Orgo 2 they are destined for doom. Honestly I would explain to your child that they are not competing with others to see who finishes first or early. Doing so will be detrimental to their mental health and academic performance.</p>

<p>I will agree with everyone else and say that it is much better to spread them out. I tried to do the same thing last summer and dropped it the third day after I realized that while I can get through it, I would be striving for a B and wouldn’t be learning as much. I took orgo 1 last semester and got an A, and looking back on it I can’t imagine what I was thinking in trying to cram all that into 6 weeks.</p>

<p>Thanks again to all that have posted…she is still bouncing this around. As a parent that believes she should make her own decisions, she will have final say. But you guys have helped with good arguments mostly against. Appreciate your responses!</p>