<p>I happened across a site related to medical school admissions and thought some of the information they listed seemed like poor advice. What are your thoughts on the comments below, especially related to shadowing.</p>
<p>Research - optional</p>
<p>If you do enjoy science, then research is one way to show you're serious about it. If you're going to do a research project as an undergrad, start early. Freshman year is not too early to start. That gives you a year or two to learn the ropes, then a year and a half of serious work before you get to present your work in your medical school interview. Choose a respected faculty member doing research that interests you. Work hard. Read. Understand what you are doing and why you are doing it. You should be able to explain and defend your work to an educated scientist who doesn't work in your field.</p>
<p>Physician shadowing - optional</p>
<p>I'm personally not a big fan of shadowing a physician. It doesn't show much committment, and suggests you're just interested in getting into medical school. If you're truly not sure you want to get into medicine, then shadow a physician and find out what it's like. Don't expect a "shadowing experience" to carry a lot of weight on your application.</p>
<p>Volunteer service - optional</p>
<p>The impact of volunteer service on your application will depend on the quality of the service, and your committment to it. Is this a one month, two-times a week thing organized by someone else, or is this a project you've involved in for several years and are taking a leadership role in. How does this project affect you, and how have you made a meaningful contribution to the project.</p>
<p>Remember, medical schools are looking for people who are willing to take the time and effort to make a serious contribution. That contribution can be in a volunteer program, an academic pursuit, research, or even sport. You just have to show that you are willing and capable of working hard enough to accomplish an important goal.</p>
<p>I will be applying with only limited shadowing and even less “Volunteer service” (charity work through my fraternity). Since I’m only interested in MD/PhD programs, I’ve been told several times that it is understood that since most of my time has been centered around research they don’t expect much else. Also, dedicating your life to science is akin to taking a vow of poverty, while turning over your entire life to the service of humanity. A much more powerful statement than any volunteer service could make.</p>
<p>As for MD only hopefuls, I assume these things vary by school.</p>
<p>they do expect else (maybe not as much, but no one in my program ONLY did research in undergrad), but you’re right that research is the end all be all of the app. Remember, you’re not applying for a PhD, you’re applying for an MD/PhD</p>
<p>kdogg,</p>
<p>I agree with the poster because if you read their explanations, they’re not saying anything extreme. Unless you’re applying to research oriented schools, you don’t need research, and if you don’t want to do research, then why are you applying to research oriented schools? I’d say shadowing is only required if there isn’t something else on your app that demonstrates you understand what a doctor does. If some other activity is principally not about shadowing but has you interacting with docs than by the books shadowing would not be necessary. Volunteering can be optional if other stuff is present on the app but volunteering is probably the easiest thing to get because it’s not a job or a competitive sport or a something like the school newspaper.</p>
<p>I was going to say something similiar to what Brown said. If you look beyond the “optional” then I think the advice sounds reasonable.</p>
<p>RE: shadowing. While some shadowing experiences (like kristin’s) are very useful and productive, most are pretty shallow and superficial. And not terriby enlightening. There’s a pretty severe limit to what one can learn about what it’s like to be physician just by being a close, but uninvolved, observer.</p>
<p>And to piggyback off WOWmom, I think the reason why mine worked so well is that I happened to identify incredible (in my opinion) preceptors who seemed to enjoy having me around and who were working in a field I didn’t realize I was passionately interested in (at the time). </p>
<p>What this all translated to was: 1) valuable mentoring relationships and apparently very strong recommendation letters 2) considerable insight into the thought process, science, and art of patient care (internal medicine sub-specialty at a major university in my state) 3) insight into continuity of care, as I saw many patients multiple times over the years 4) reassurance that the characteristics I value in myself and in my relationships with others matches very nicely with the characteristics and attitudes that I consistently saw in their practices 5) examples of how one’s medical career can change over time (one of the docs was near retirement; the other is in his mid-40s, arguably near his prime). It probably didn’t hurt that the two docs I worked with are very highly regarded at my current med school </p>
<p>Apparently, this is not a standard shadowing arrangement; it was specifically mentioned at each of my interviews. It just happened to work out for me, and finding hundreds of hours (!) was not challenging because it was something I enjoyed and prioritized. </p>
<p>I should contrast this arrangement with my other, shorter-term shadowing experiences: 8h in each of 3 specialties (IM sub spec, ENT, ortho). They were interesting, fun, cool to see new procedures, etc etc–but there wasn’t anything more to it than just the stuff on the surface. Apparently this tends to be more common.</p>
<p>My advice: if you want to learn a lot about medicine, you probably need to form a strong relationship with someone who is in the field. This can certainly come from shadowing, but like all relationships, you need a nice dose of serendipity to get it to work out.</p>
<p>Thanks for the timely thread. Just reminded DS1 about his shadowing plan. He has plenty on research and has been volunteering all year. But, with limited connections, he has only about 20 hours for shadowing. DS3’s best friend’s dad is a Gynecologist. But, is it even appropriate for DS3 to ask about it on behalf of his older brother? It is certainly much more difficult obtaining meaningful shadowing experiences than finding a professor for doing research.</p>
<p>When I had wrist surgery 2 summer ago, there was a college student present both at the surgery and follow-up office visit, but I had to give written consent both times.</p>
<p>But I agree about the GYN–not sure I’d want a random student present unless I was asked and gave permission.</p>
<p>the issue of having a someone shadow an OB-GYN is something that should be handled by the physician. You don’t have to not ask because some patients may be uncomfortable. The physician, regardless of specialty, should be asking his/her patients if they are comfortable with someone observing every time they enter the room.</p>
Well said. Actually this is also true in well too other fields, not only in medicine.</p>
<p>This reminds me of what BDM was saying (if I remember correctly) that in the clinical years when your performance as evaluated by the med school really counts (at least this is true at some med schools where there are no preclinical grades), the public speaking skill is one of the most important factors which determine your performance. This is why a college student needs to be involved with activities other than classroom/lab activities. Actually, the true liberal art-ish class room setting , where two-way communication between the professor and the students is encouraged or even mandatory, could help nurture such a skill. However, some people who are especially gifted in this area (is there a word called charisma to describe this personal trait?) could shine anywhere.</p>
<p>ace550, DS had some difficulties in locating a physician for shadowing also. I guess it was because he refused to join any clubs that have too many neurotic, over-achieving premeds at his undergraduate. He could more easily find opportunities to shadow doctors now at med school – he actually did one between Thanksgiving and Christmas.</p>
<p>I agree with all aspects of the gyn question. Given the nature of gyn he might not get to see much, but it’s hard to say. As a girl shadowing breast cancer docs, I can’t recall a time I was “rejected” from a patient room; a guy friend shadowing the same clinics only got to go in maybe 2/3 of the time. </p>
<p>Rather than having DS3 ask best friend’s dad if bro can shadow, could he perhaps set up a time for bro and doc to meet? They could talk about whether he could shadow his practice, and if not, I’m sure doc has ideas for colleagues in other specialties for him. It’s not crazy to ask; all docs have been there, done that, and I’d argue most really enjoy teaching others about their field. Like other fields, with medicine, it’s all about who you know!</p>
<p>Thanks for all the helpful advice. DS1 just contacted his pediatrician since his birth. The nurse submitted the request to the clinic for approval. Hopefully it would work.</p>