<p>menloparkmom is correct. Stanford and the UCs no longer ignore Frosh grades. On its Common Data Set, Stanford lists class rank as 'Very Important' -- obviously, low Frosh grades hinders class rank, so they talk out of both sides.... Even the UCs now ask for Frosh grades -- in the dark ages, Frosh grades were'nt even reported on the app, so Frosh grades must now be a consideration...</p>
<p>bluebayou:</p>
<p>The current UC application form states -
[quote]
grades reported for 9th grade will not be used in calculating your GPA for admission purposes
[/quote]
They do still ask for the grades but it looks like they're probably not very important since they don't use them in the GPA calculation.</p>
<p>That's still helpful...in our case, will increase the percentage weight of son's good (4.0 so far) year (junior). But, actually his 10th grade year was his worst (peak of rebellion/chosing not to work) so not sure how the sharp jump will look to schools...guess we'll just see...</p>
<p>One last question....son is interested in comp sci & we've looked at schools such as Rennsalear Polytech, Worchester Poly Tech. Would USC be a harder school to get into than these (they seem like reaches)? Just don't want son to get too excited about the "California option" if it's completely out of the range of possibility...</p>
<p>uc-dad:</p>
<p>yes....and no -- UCs also speak out of both sides..... The 'UC gpa' calculation does in fact exclude frosh grades, and caps bonus points at 8. BUT, the app readers also have access to the weighted gpa, uncapped for all three years, and they have access to a complete listing of every applicant from that same HS (even tho 'rank' is officially NOT an admissions criteria). Each campus interprets all that data differently.</p>
<p>J-Smith: sry, dunno much about those two colleges.</p>
<p>Interesting re: the finer points of gpa. Thanks, bluebayou, anyway...this CA info is invaluable!</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Seattle is also a great city, and the campus and its surroundings are very nice, with a "college town" feel --- lots of cheap restaurants and shops, etc on University Avenue. One thing to consider about UW and the Northwest in general is the LOUSY weather. Yes, everything you have read about Seattle and grey overcast skies 7-9 months a year is true. The only time Seattle is beautiful is when an OOS student is not there: June-September. Having lived in the area for 10 years has gotten me used to it, but here I am, on Memorial Day weekend, looking out my window at a completely bland sky that seems to hang 10 feet above the top of my head.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Rennsalear Polytech, Worchester Poly Tech. Would USC be a harder school to get into than these (they seem like reaches)?
[/quote]
I don't know enough about those schools to compare but USC shouldn't be considered an easy school to get into so make sure he has some safeties.</p>
<p>But Jolynne- as out of state applicant, the academic criteria at the highly selective ucs is insanely high (ucla, berkeley and ucsd). All of us in cali know great students in our high schools who didn't get in to one or all of those, yet seemed like they would. Even competition for UCSB UCI and UC Davis has escalated to high qualifications in the last decade of population growth. And out of state being so much harder, it is a serious question as to whether a student who had a rough soph year can be competitive at the top ucs. Since ucsd publishes its admissions formula, you can calculate that probability on almost any instate applicant. You might want to do that as a benchmark for where you son stands with that strong jr year and less-strong soph year. </p>
<p>Although it is clear that each uc campus has its own admissions formula, there is nothing to sugguest in any documents that uc has ever published that frosh grades are used by any uc for admissions in any campus' admissions methodology. Nor was there any confusion in the admissions presentations I have attended at berkeley or ucsd. In the same way as frosh grades and courses are reported on the app, 7th and 8th grade algebra or foreign language courses taken are counted as high school courses taken but not calculated into gpa. The only measurement that includes those 9th grade courses is the number of semesters taken of uc-certified courses, taken grades 9-12. </p>
<p>Capped UC GPA is used to determine uc-eligibility and may be used by some campuses for admission criteria, but not for comprehensive admissions at ucla or berkeley; per their published comprehensive freshman admission reports. UCSD has a different formula that does use the capped gpa.</p>
<p>Berkeley and UCLA for sure do use the stack rank report bluebayou mentions by calif. high school, but only after individual read scores are assigned to each app. The Berkeley process that was published in the extensive report in 2005 showed the high school stack rank based on weighted gpa, unweighted gpa, the app read score, and then is used for balance--i.e., making sure everyone's result from a particular high school makes sense in relation to each other. 89% of admisisions decisions at berkeley were based on the initial app read score, then more places are given out in the stack rank evaluation and a few spots are awarded in their augmented review process. For Berkeley school of eng the report stated that math sat I and satII are more heavily weighted than for other colleges within Berkeley, and I would assume that for ucla and ucsd also.</p>
<p>Another note on the UCs and Univ of Washington. They are not known to give much financial aid to most OOS students. So unless you bring something extraordinary to the table you will probably be paying full Out of State Tuition if you get in. If you have the cash, no big deal but if you are like me it was a show stopper. Take your shot but keep options open. Several of son's friends were also unable to go to UW due to the financial aid package or lack there of.</p>
<p>USC is very generous usually meeting full EFC, although you do get the stafford loans.</p>
<p>USC also gives out less merit aid now.</p>
<p>
[quote]
USC has been able to acquire practically the same number of students using merit-based scholarships as it has in the previous year though the number of scholarships offered was reduced.</p>
<p>Thirty percent fewer admits were offered the Trustee Scholarship, USCs merit-based full-ride scholarship, this year compared to this past year, due to an upping of the required qualifications.</p>
<p>However, nearly the same number of students accepted the scholarship, said Michael Thompson, vice provost for enrollment at USC.</p>
<p>This year, 129 incoming freshmen accepted the Trustee Scholarship four fewer than the past year. USC estimated that 100 students would accept the Trustee Scholarship, Thompson said.</p>
<p>What it tells us is that really excellent students think that USC is a good institution whether they get merit money or not, he said.</p>
<p>At UCLA, the universitys ability to award scholarships was affected this year due to the general state of the economy, said Ronald Johnson, director of the Financial Aid Office.</p>
<p>Specifically, endowed scholarships were adversely affected by the states economic woes.</p>
<p>Interest earned on endowed scholarships dipped this year, said Gail Ishino, assistant director for the Financial Aid Office.</p>
<p>These privately funded scholarships, which include many need-based scholarships, generate funds by collecting the interest on the initial funds established by the founders.</p>
<p>However, the Regents Scholarship the largest merit-based scholarship UCLA offers was not affected, as 69 of the 258 students offered the scholarship accepted it.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The</a> Daily Bruin - USC closing college rankings gap</p>
<p>Same weather (SoCal); my OOS kid enjoys Chapman University, a private "masters level" university. "Masters level" uni means no PhD's are offered there, although Chapman has a law school and masters offered in other fields (business, film production) where masters is the highest degree offered in the field.</p>
<p>It's in Orange County, CA, near Anaheim. As for Newman Center activity, they do have an astonishing Fish Interfaith Center. Chapman was founded mid-l9th century by Disciples of Christ, which sounds like an evangelical group. They are not. They were, and are, a progressive, all-embracing movement, akin to Unitarians here on the East Coast. So they support activity today from all faiths, without requiring any religious activity of anyone. Point is: they set up and support all faiths to operate well, with a beautiful interfaith building from Catholic to Buddhist, all under one roof. Outstanding. </p>
<p>It's an alternative in that it's a mid-size university, private, in the same extraordinary climate. Because he's very involved in his major work (screenwriting), my S ignores the designer-label-culture there. It exists, but can be ignored or humored, apparently. </p>
<p>I have Zero idea about the offerings in Computer Science at Chapman.</p>
<p>Two local students from S's high school in upstate NY just got into UCLA for next year, so remember that OOS'ers do gain admission, with odds against them. In one situation, the student's desired major might have been her calling card (MidEast studies), but who knows. </p>
<p>I believe in sending out the applications as curiosity, so the kid never wonders "what if I had applied..." to any of these cross-continental choices. </p>
<p>What surprised us was that S's very best offer, in terms of major and financial aid, came from Chapman. (UCLA didn't want him to darken their doorstep.)</p>
<p>We've gotten to not only adjust to sending a kid cross-country, but embrace it because he feels so delighted with his situation and is working very hard there. That's worth a lot.</p>
<p>So consider letting him apply and let the chips fall where they may, if you can. Oddly, none of us ever visited it until the actual move-in day (financial restrictions) so it was done sight-unseen except by websites. International students do that, too, sometimes. If I could have visited, or sent him, I surely would have but that just didn't happen. All 3 of us (mom, dad, S) enjoyed move-in and a few days before that, too, in San Diego. So we saved money to see if he really got in. Then, when he did, we all went together to move him in and discover a taste of California together. </p>
<p>Years before, I had told my older two: don't apply West of the Missisippi because you want to major in things that are readily available closer to us. My personal thought is: let the kid justify to you that the best academic program is there in California. Or, that if the sun is shining, he's so happy he'll work harder than if he's in the dreary grey Northeast. He certainly has some great options for CS in the East.</p>
<p>You have to give a bit of thought as a parent: what if he gets into, for example, RPI and a place in SoCal where he and you understand the academics are on par or less? That's really a hard choice, because then you'd be choosing between atmosphere v. academics at that point.</p>
<p>We never faced it simply because S-2's best acceptance, academically and financially, came from SoCal and not near here. Relief. Glad the world decided that one for us.</p>
<p>It did take me a year of CC hand-holding to adjust to sending him off to California, but now we're really glad about things. Good luck to you!</p>
<p>Jolynne,</p>
<pre><code>My son just completed the second year of computer science at USC. I am also a USC graduate (in Engineering). Well, you've had a lot of information about various programs in this thread, and it should have given you a good picture. A couple of corrections: there are alternative views of the prestige of the CA schools; I'm biased so I would have put USC much higher than others might, but we'll save that for another day (especially on CC, this is a touchy topic).
</code></pre>
<p>As an aside, I would recommend against Harvey Mudd, although I like and respect this school. If you know that your son should not go to Cal Tech if he were accepted, the same can be said of Mudd.</p>
<p>USC is a great school, and perhaps academically better than you might conclude from an average of the comments on this thread. But the social element is very important. So I would like to reinforce the idea of visiting a bunch of California schools; the suggestions in this thread are good ones (look at UCSB if you possibly can...it is SO beautiful).</p>
<p>Also, somewhat more prosaically, has your son expressed a big school vs small school preference? USC, UCLA and UCB are all big schools...very big schools.</p>
<p>And ask yourself about food. How important is that to your son? And the final issue to know; four years on on-campus housing are not gauranteed. So if your son is the self-sufficient type, he just jumps (probably with some buddies) into an apartment after year one or two. Does that sound right for your son? My son is doing this and he is really looking forward to it, but it is not for every student at 19 or 20.</p>
<p>Out of State admission for UCLA 2008 is 28%. Much better than in-state which is 22%. So it's not harder for OOS but actually easier. I think UCLA needs money from these OOS students.</p>
<p>UCLA</a> Undergrad Admissions: Profile of Admitted Freshmen, Fall 2008</p>
<p>USC is also expanding to build 8000 new beds for residential, see president Sample's annual address to faculty.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Becoming a Residential University
Over the last few years, the pace of USCs evolution from a commuter campus to a residential university has accelerated. I believe that this transformation will greatly strengthen USC academically. More and more students live on or near our University Park campus, and the demand for on-campus housing for both undergraduate and graduate students is almost insatiable. To meet this demand, USC and various private-sector partners will need to build 8,000 new beds over the next few years.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>USC</a> President - Speeches and Articles - 2008 - Faculty Address</p>
<p>Campus renovation, new rendering, complete by 2010.</p>
<p>Student</a> Affairs Construction Project Plans and Renderings</p>
<p>
[quote]
I think UCLA needs money from these OOS students.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>In general, yes; but one of the 2 UCLA-bound local students I just mentioned also needs FinAid, isn't URM, and is from a middle-class family. </p>
<p>So, person for person, if you meet an OOS student on a UC campus, please don't automatically assume "Moneybags." Not that you would, ColStudent; I'm just typing here, passing the day.</p>
<p>Jolynne:</p>
<p>Another school that I think was mentioned earlier that he might want to consider is CalPoly San Luis Obispo (CalPoly SLO). It's a part of the CalState system (as opposed to UC system or privates). Its engineering program is pretty highly respected. It's not in southern Cal, it's roughly halfway between San Diego and San Francisco but it's a nice area. My Ds considered it and we visited but they decided to go to their respective UCs instead.</p>
<p>Cal</a> Poly - Welcome to California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo, California</p>
<p>columbiastudent:</p>
<p>one just can't compare admissions rates of the instate vs. OOS pools. What we don't know is the stats of those in each pool. For example, I have no doubt that many instaters apply to the state flagships as a possible lottery ('ya gotta play to win') even tho their stats fit better with a much lower tier UC. However, I doubt that many out-of-state kids do the same.</p>
<p>^^^^
True that. Many cali kids apply to many of the UCs, even if it may be a long shot because they are all one application with a small additional fee per school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
However, I doubt that many out-of-state kids do the same.
[/quote]
You must not have read some of the stats posted for OOS in the UCLA forum. That caused me to do research on the admit rate.</p>
<p>"As an aside, I would recommend against Harvey Mudd, although I like and respect this school. If you know that your son should not go to Cal Tech if he were accepted, the same can be said of Mudd."</p>
<p>I don't know if I agree with this. The environments at Caltech and Mudd are completely different.</p>
<p>Awesome advice, thanks so much! Computing it all and passing it all to son.</p>
<p>The lack-of-money-given-out is a bit of downer to hear...we'll be needing fin aid (even if it's mainly loans) although I hope to go to work full-time as soon as son starts college, to pay them back 'as we go.' Good to know that in advance, though, surely, so son can be aware before hopes are raised too high!</p>
<p>Really appreciate the heads up about additional CA schools...I really believe the weather is a big part of the draw for son (can't blame him, I feel a bit the same!).</p>
<p>The reminder about the bigness if these schools is useful, too. Really not sure how son would handle that vs smaller school. Tend to think he'd benefit from a more 'nurturing' environment (is used to lots of family support/involvement) but not sure...</p>
<p>Again--many thanks!!!</p>