<p>Yeah, I can see how people might be upset. I don’t agree with violence of course, but it’s not like student protests over college costs don’t happen here. Wasn’t there one in California last year?</p>
<p>It’s very sad , when education is treated as a Business, no wonder Recession has a firm grip in our society and it wud be very strong in the coming future.
Hope more and more topics like this are posted to catch the common man eyeballs.
Thanks to the Forum</p>
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<p>“In Nepal, they had increased exam fee from $1.5 to $2 and we had a protest. Expenses of students is pretty serious thing, I guess!!!”</p>
<p>I’d be willing to say, there’s enough economic disparities between Nepal and the US (or even the UK) that would lead to that $.5 raise in price (in USD or what currency?) is not quite as insignificant as it seems to the average American.
Education is an extremely important issue, raising costs (over inflation) just bites back later when the youth’s population eventually holds all the jobs. Seeing as populations are growing and all.</p>
<p>PS: Sorry, don’t know how to quote.</p>
<p>I fail to see the big deal. The UK is broke and instead of giving away free education they upped the amount of money people have to pay to go. This is much better than gutting healthcare or other necessary programs. </p>
<p>Socialism isn’t cheap. Thank God we don’t have it here in the USA.</p>
<p>The UK isn’t broke. The UK isn’t particularly socialist either, not compared to the rest of Europe.</p>
<p>It’s a big deal because, unlike in the US, the UK has a tradition of free education for all. The government aren’t simply asking students to make a fairer contribution to the cost of their degree, which I could understand. What they’re actually doing is cutting PUBLIC universitiy funding massively and passing the financial burden onto students. In effect this means students will pay triple the price for their degrees but won’t benefit from improved facilities, more lecturers or anything that you’d expect from fee rises.</p>
<p>Like the person above me said, it is a big deal.</p>
<p>I really wish you people would stop throwing the word socialism around like it’s a fricking curse word. You grew up with having to pay enormous amounts of money for everything and maybe you can afford it, but others cannot. Not to mention, it’s not like the UK is doing a gradual change, they’re telling students that it’s going to be triple the cost, NOW.</p>
<p>I’ve met a lot of American people who have a stick up their ass and they seem to think that their way is the best way. That sort of ignorance is why many people hate the country.</p>
<p>Err, love or hate socialism, that’s not the point, so fine if you don’t like it good for you, but the merits and demerits go both ways, I love how criticism of Britain ‘proves’ how great USA is, </p>
<p>and despite the ‘terrible’ effects of british College Tuition tripling to $15k in equivalence to pounds, it “clearly” shows superiority to the american system of a more stable $50k per year, thank god we have free market protecting our prices and keeping them profitable, right?</p>
<p>I don’t think you can call Britain Socialist, and I personally am not fond of their health care system, though it does beat USA, again that doesn’t say much, </p>
<p>socialist countries would include examples like Sweden, Denmark or Netherlands. </p>
<p>BTW Germany has excellent affordable college system but they’re not socialist, and my final point, you can like or dislike socialism, but don’t mislabel a country, if you are going to be so rash as to label them,</p>
<p>I personally AM a socialist, ^.^</p>
<p>Cry me a river. The UK is socialistic as compared to the USA. The UK is broke in a general term, but I suppose not in a financial reality. Either way it is nearing an issue and trying to be proactive to prevent another Greek crisis from happening. </p>
<p>Just because you have a tradition of getting something for free (not really free, just subsidized by a high level of taxes) does not mean it will always be free. Paying for a college degree is called an investment. </p>
<p>I grew up in a country where we pay market price for things. I do not believe in other people subsidizing my education. I suppose you do. Either way it looks like financially the UK and Europe simply cannot keep offering such generous subsidies. </p>
<p>My comments were neither ignorant nor incorrect. Your tuition is still incredibly cheap compared to the long term gains you will receive from having a college education. If you do not think there will be an appropriate return on your investment simply do not go to school. </p>
<p>Feel free to hate the USA all you want. Hating a country that has been an ardent supporter of the UK in particular and Europe as a whole for a long time now simply because an American says you should suck it up and realize that things cannot be free forever is indicative of immaturity or ignorance. You pick. </p>
<p>I reiterate. I fail to see the big deal.</p>
<p>Could you please highlight where I said the UK is 100% socialist? I said Socialism. There is a range. I think it is fair to say that the UK is more socialistic than the USA, but less than say Sweden. </p>
<p>How did anything I posted prove America is great? I simply stated that tuition in the UK is still very cheap relative to elsewhere. I stated that subsidies cannot go on forever and that it isn’t a free education, but provided for by higher taxes overall. </p>
<p>I think 50K a year is entirely reasonable for a high quality degree in the USA. The return on investment is still very high. The fact is most people do not pay this much for their degree and we have plenty of alternatives to choose from. You don’t have to go to the highest priced school. </p>
<p>You might dislike American healthcare, but I have no problem with it. Neither do many other Americans.</p>
<p>I’d rather not get into a debate on American attitudes towards socialism and the myth that is the American Dream for fear of hijacking this thread even more. However, I wonder if you’ve read the poem Two Scavengers in a Truck, Two Beautiful People In a Mercedes by Lawrence Ferlinghetti? I had to study it a few years ago, you might find it illuminating.</p>
<p>I could equally say just because the US has a tradition of capitalism doesn’t mean it will always be a capitalist state. Free education and healthcare are fundamental principles of our society, and the present government erodes that at its peril.</p>
<p>Whether or not a degree is an investment is debatable. It by no means guarantees success or a well paid job, indeed many British graduates struggle even to find a job after graduating let alone a well paid one.</p>
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<p>Ah well you see we do. Nearly every university, from the best to the very worst charges the same fees.</p>
<p>Yes, whoever said that America is “stable” because we pay 50,000 a year for uni, you’ve proven your point. The mere fact that we have stationed ourselves at an abnormal tuition fee MUST mean that we’re better than the UK.</p>
<p>/sarcasm</p>
<p>And you may not dislike American healthcare, but I suppose you’re not the one bleeding through the nose trying to pay for it.</p>
<p>First of all, thank you for being non personal and not turning this into an emotional fight, I actually am a New Yorker, and lived here my whole life, </p>
<p>I accept the fact that average college in US cost 50K price, because that is the median price of almost all colleges. Yes many colleges do offer F/A and there are some but not too many colleges that are free or low tuition, but they’re not too dependable compared to say the British system which “was” $5K and that’s in terms of dollars!</p>
<p>Undeniably it’s a big concern for many families, mine included, and ironically the great ‘equalizer’ of High school, doesn’t equalize us, since many of us will still have hard time getting or affording a decent college which translates into working opportunities. </p>
<p>The very reason other people should pay for your education is simply because the cream of the top students in college will affect everyone in the country positively. Many other countries’ government sponsor their citizens for various international competitions and contests, and while I don’t care for the US Olympic team isn’t sponsored, we certainly should be trying to get the most qualified candidates for government positions, including but not limited to NSA, CIA, defense, branches pertaining the economy, environment, NASA and various other things I can’t think of right now. </p>
<p>Another major difference is that more people go to college in USA on average than in other countries. So while i am not interested in interfering with those numbers, the Govt. whether through Federal, or through Federally mandated state programs, should sponsor promising students, as well as give incentive to lesser inclined students to strive to their best, but leaving other students alone, not telling them to go or not go to college. </p>
<p>the rest of the people? They can go to the 2nd/3rd tier colleges as well as Community colleges, some may need it and benefit tremendously from college, others do it to make themselves feel worth something,</p>
<p>And ^^ I don’t mean to bring up new debate, but essentially we have this notion that EVERYONE has to go to college, the problem is, we have the same people, and standards become only stricter, so in effect many people going to college end up wasting $200K+ and 4 years of their time for nothing since they’re not the top and wont get hired anyways,</p>
<p>Our tuition is market priced. Schools that many students want to attend can get away with charging higher prices. These tuitions go fund further research, expansion, better classes, etc. We also have endowments and financial aid for needy students. We have low cost student loans provided by the government. Plenty of help and assistance for students to get the education that they deserve. </p>
<p>Healthcare is an entirely different animal. The USA currently provides free or low cost healthcare to all those below a certain income level. Major companies provide top quality insurance as a way to attract the best employees. Hospital emergency rooms have to treat sick and ill patients. </p>
<p>We have healthcare, we just are working on trying to find a more efficient and effective way of paying for it. I personally think we have too much regulation with the system and they is standing in the way of lowering costs and making things run better. We need tort reform so doctors can practice without burdensome insurance premiums. </p>
<p>What I do not think we need is a national healthcare system. Remember, the “free” healthcare you enjoy is not really free. It is money that other people earned and have been taxed on. This “free” education that the state provides is money taken from people who work. </p>
<p>Let’s look at this in a different light. Another poster freely admits that even a Univ degree does not guarantee a high paying job. The same hold true here in the USA. The problem is there is no “skin in the game” for the student. School is subsidized through higher taxes for all. There is no thought of consequences for taking various majors, for not doing well in school. I mean who cares, education is my RIGHT. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, you know who cares? The people who have worked hard and had to watch their salary vanquished to pay for you education. Don’t you think it is much more fair that you should pay for school yourself? If you want to study basket weaving that is perfectly fine, but I think you should be the one to pay for it. Sounds pretty simple for me. </p>
<p>Try reading The Wealth of Nations. Wonderful book, really illustrates how a free market should work.</p>
<p>@Shush – I agree that we should build out our trades and skilled worker base more. College is not necessary and you see so many kids going to school simply because you are either on the college track or the fast food track. I actually like Germany’s system where you have different levels of high school and different tracks. </p>
<p>We actually have a supply problem with skilled workers in this country. Maybe if college was not the only path to financial success more kids would look at going a different route.</p>
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<p>It’s that sort of thinking that has made America the unequal society it is, which is what the poem I suggested a few posts back was all about. It becomes very easy to say I earned my money and you can too, and if you cant it’s your fault. It appears to me as an outsider that too many Americans live in a state of almost wilful ignorance of other peoples suffering, so to as cocoon themselves in their own comfortable middle class existence. I’m very glad I live in a country where my quality of life does not totally depend on my ability to earn it, because the fact is not everyone can be successful.</p>
<p>Out of interest how do government college loans work in the US? I’m grateful that at least we dont need to pay them back until we earn over £15k a year (soon to be £21k).</p>
<p>[The info on Chinese college entrance is outdated.</p>
<p>Because of vastly increased enrollment quotas and the declining college-age population, starting 2011 or 2012, Chinese universities will have more slots than the numbers of students who take the entrance exams! ]</p>
<p>The figures I cited were from the 2007 Chinese National College exam results. Moreover, if the demographic shift was actually going to be so dramatic in only a couple of years from now, the national educational ministry could easily compensate by easing the rigorous standards for entrance to the academic-track high schools with good track records necessary to be eligible to take the exam or more importantly…have any chance of passing it.</p>
<p>[These tuitions go fund further research, ]</p>
<p>Not really true. </p>
<p>First, almost all research funding is either derived from the Federal and State governments and/or from private industry/foundations interested in having faculty and research staff work on various issues which concerns the national interest and/or those of private industry/foundations. </p>
<p>Second…for most schools…especially the elite public and private universities…even full-pay students are effectively subsidized as they’re not actually paying for the full costs of education. Related to this, colleges which rely on tuition for most/all of their costs tend to have extremely limited/nonexistent resources to carry out research. Heck, tuition often barely covers the basic expenses and upkeep of running a college/university…and can be so inadequate that such colleges have gone bankrupt and thus, closed down or merged with another more viable institution.</p>
<p>The UK uses a Mixed Economy, not a socialist one- though from an American perspective it would be seen as socialist lol</p>
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<p>[Student</a> loans in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_loans_in_the_United_States]Student”>Student loans in the United States - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>From what I have seen, you start paying it immediately after a certain time immediately after graduation (Maybe 6+ months) except you go to graduate school/Med/Law and defer your loans while accruing more loans. You might work something out and if you cannot pay them you might have to file bankruptcy. I think you can file for an extension but I dont know.</p>
<p>What I find interesting that people freaked out during the economic recession and students could not find jobs immediately after college, so they could not pay their loans. I had friends that were so nervous about graduating because they were unable to pay their loans. Fortunately for me, I never had such problems.</p>
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<p>the UK is broke but so is the US. Dont let the chinese call out for their debts. Well they would not for political reasons but that is another issue.</p>
<p>The UK is not a socialist state but those in the far North of Europe are. </p>
<p>Personally, I think socilaism however breeds mediocrity and boredom. Human’s are no different than animals- we operate under a ‘dog eat dog’ approach. Competition drives innovation and adds spice to life. What is left to strive for if everything is provided for you?</p>
<p>[The</a> U.K. Is Broke, And This Time The U.S. Is Hardly Far Behind](<a href=“http://www.dailymarkets.com/economy/2010/01/22/the-uk-is-broke-and-this-time-the-us-is-hardly-far-behind/]The”>http://www.dailymarkets.com/economy/2010/01/22/the-uk-is-broke-and-this-time-the-us-is-hardly-far-behind/)</p>
<p>Broke broke broke.</p>
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<p>It seems the Thatcher was really the iron lady. No one is better with saving money than women.</p>
<p>Regardless, Cuts in public funding for higher education would significantly affect teaching. Increasing the fees is trying to reduce the impact. However, it would not affect reesarch excellence. I think this is a cost-effective way IMO. People are easily fooled by reputation, and assume that great research is equal to great education. A universities reputation is tied to the world class research it perfoprms as opposed to actual education. Consequently, the damage would be less.</p>
<p>So, I cannot really fault the british government, they are doing the best they can in such a bad economy.</p>
<p>I am no fan of rioters (seems that hard working merchants always catch the brunt of that) but I can well imagine my own families distress if we were notified that next semester we had to come up with three times the current fees. </p>
<p>I believe it is Germany that thinks university is worthwhile for the government to support because the college graduate gives back, in taxes, more than enough (over a lifetime) to cover that university expense. That sounds like a great, capitalistic way of being. Alas, it probably pencils out differently in every country. </p>
<p>I don’t know where the answer lies.</p>
<p>I grew up in Hong Kong and here are the facts:
- ridiculously low taxes (I think 16% is the max income tax; no tax on capital gain…etc)
- universal health care system
- tuition for Hong Kong University is less than $5,500. Other colleges probably have similar rates.</p>
<p>I have no idea how they manage to do it. The government’s reach isn’t as extensive but in the things they do get involved, they seem to do very well. I remember it was never a bad experience to renew my ID/passport, rent badminton courts, or get things done in the postal offices. Things seemed to go pretty smoothly and quickly. On the other hand, I have had a fair share of bad and frustrating experience with places like DMV, USPS, or INS…etc here; many people that work in these places are either incompetent, or rude, or both.</p>