This is why admission transparency so crucial…
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/12/us/college-admission-cheating-scheme/index.html
I bet no one is cheating to get into the BSMD programs. Our kids will actually have to take challenging classes in college and then perform in medical school. If you can’t get in on your own strength, it doesn’t bode well for the rest.
Congratulations @TechGuy70
@gallentjill point is moral and ethical standards/principles of college admission process that affects broad spectrum of colleges and disciplines, any career involving healthcare has much higher moral and ethical standards, still bad apples are in that industry too, just like any other profession.
I still can not believe some kids with 1000+ hours of hospital volunteer/500+doctor shadowing hours.Only few kids would get these opportunities with right connections/family background. Some of the research opportunities at high school level (for example NIH in DC area) are mostly are given to kids with connections. We can not say this as cheating but some kids get advantage compared to others in some of the BSMD program admissions.
All
If you have an interview conflict, please call the college in question - most of them will accommodate your request for reschedule.
@DSOF20192023 Absolutely. There is no doubt that many of our kids have privilege and opportunities that others don’t. Thats always going to be true. But there is a difference between doing it legally and outright fraud. Remember, these indicted parents are the wealthiest people in the country. Their kids already had all the opportunities money could buy.
unquote, healthcare is a privilege not a right that only wealthy can buy.
@gallentjill
Agree with you.
The article in NYTimes indicates celebrities “manufacturing students’ achievements.”
We are mere mortals- we do the right way - by hard work.
@lgeorge We will be there on the 29th for the interview, too! Looking forward to meeting you!
There is an enormous difference between being able to introduce your talented, bright daughter to someone who might know someone else who is doing research and hope they might get a chance to work in the lab, and literally paying someone to “say” that your child did research that never happened.
Cc: @PPofEngrDr
I will not agree completely …
still can not believe some kids with 1000+ hours of hospital volunteer/500+doctor shadowing hours.Only few kids would get these opportunities with right connections/family background.
Take our case for example…we dont have any family connections any where in the health care industry.Its all about how much passion the kid has to get into these type of programs.I dont think unless the kid has so much motivation he /she would able to have hundreds of documented hours either for shadowing/volunteering.Family connections can take you to the door quickly but to make best of the opportunity given to you depends on the student itself.Its like taking/showing the horse to the pond…now it’s in horse will to drink the water or not.Money and Connections cant buy every thing or every one.There are still noble people who are willing to help these highly motivated and talented kids to achieve their dreams.
@whitecane I agree. Thats exactly what I’m saying. There is some advantage in having some connections – maybe you know a scientist who worships in the same congregation with you. And its an advantage that your child can spend time working on his passion instead of taking on a part time job to help pay the bills. But those advantages only go so far and none of us would pay millions in bribes to get our kids into a program they didn’t earn.
@whitecane agree in students ability and also agree money and connections can’t buy everything. unfortunately so many those horses only run for Kentucky derby. Also what @DSOF20192023 is trying to point out that unfortunately that kind of network/pond is not accessible to everyone, so many capable horses are clueless during high school period. In general consensus people are good people. None of us implying that kids on this thread are part of that article or something similar.
thanks @PPofEngrDr You said what I wanted to say.
@DSOF20192023 - “I still can not believe some kids with 1000+ hours of hospital volunteer/500+doctor shadowing hours.Only few kids would get these opportunities with right connections/family background. Some of the research opportunities at high school level (for example NIH in DC area) are mostly are given to kids with connections. We can not say this as cheating but some kids get advantage compared to others in some of the BSMD program admissions.”
- as mentioned by @gallentjill, while your comment above may be certainly true, i think it is entirely different and an unfair comparison to make with the 'college cheating scandal'.
- an opportunity may have arisen due to connections, however it is presumed that the student would still need to do the work (i.e. put in the time, work, etc.) at research/extracurricular activitie/volunteer services/etc. i think this is very different if student is getting credit for work that he/she did not put it or work for (e.g. pay someone to take exam, etc.).
- let me clarify as i do understand your point (i think), but would like to propose that there is a difference between what is considered fair and what is considered right. in an ideal world, we want it to be fair, equal opportunities for everyone. that's certainly a goal worth striving for. while not ideal, standardized testing and a holistic approach to college admissions is an attempt by college admissions to account for this, even though we all know this is far from perfect and has it's own limitations and issues in itself. with bs-md programs admissions process, which are usually done in a much smaller scale that the usual college admissions process, it's difficult to create a level playing field for everyone given the different backgrounds of a smaller group of applicants. for example, if evaluating tens of thousands of applicants for a competitive university, the university may have the opportunity to group certain applicants to be able to evaluate them more fairly - divide them by region of the country, socioeconomic status, specific major or school within the college that one is applying to, first generation college applicant status, etc. while this is an attempt by the university to make the admissions process more fair (arguably) for applicants in general, the bs-md programs with a much smaller applicant pool does not have this opportunity.
- i am not part of and do not have any connections to any bs-md (or regular college) admissions so this is purely speculation on my part - that when it comes down to it, in choosing who to admit to their bs-md program, the admissions committee probably would rather be right than fair. i can imagine that their goal is to select applicants that they feel most likely will be able to complete the 7 or 8 year program and become successful physicians (this includes an assessment of their academic excellence, maturity, and passion). i don't think they care so much as to how the student got X hours of hospital volunteer service, Y hours of physician shadowing, and/or Z hours or research experience. the important thing to them may be that the student got the opportunity to gain experience helping others voluntarily, got an idea what medicine/being a physician is like, and/or gained insight into what academic medicine may be like because these qualities/experiences are believed to help predict who will be successful in their program (success = completing BS-MD program).
- put another way, in evaluating who were to do surgery for a friend/family, would i rather have the surgeon with the most experience (even though he/she got most of his/her experience by working for/with his/her mother/father/uncle/aunt/cousin/friend/etc. or had the means from his/her parents to learn from experts from around the world), more likely to be successful, but unfriendly/arrogant OR someone who is less experienced (didn't have the connections/benefits of others) but certainly has potential and is friendly/nice? it would be tough to criticize those who would opt for the former.
- i wish there was a way to create a level playing field for everyone. however, this is not easily attainable. life is not fair. one has to take advantage of opportunities (legal) that they are given or presented to them. please be clear - this is different than cheating the system or doing things illegally (e.g. the 'college cheating scandal').
- as an aside, i tend to associate my life with the latter, using my perceived unfairness as motivation to try to achieve success. admittedly, it may simply be a self-defense mechanism on my part in dealing with such perceived unfairness.
@OldSchoolMD oldie is goldie, very well said… =D> =D>
Admissions process is out of control in this country and so are costs. Top schools and BSMD programs have unrealistic expectations of students. Unrealistic expectations lead to manipulations/cheating by some and disillusionment with the system for most.
@rk2017 - Your beloved ranking site released 2020 update 
https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings