Three or four courses?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
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As a U. of C. student I always took four courses each quarter and recommend this for any kid focussed on the experience of learning. You never know in advance what course is going to be a revelation and a life-changer, so why scant yourself on the chances of finding as many of them as possible in a very finite undergraduate career? Why pass up a chance to learn fascinating things you’ll never have another chance to learn? Why omit even one perspective a brilliant Chicago prof might bring to an otherwise superfluous subject matter?

It’s a good idea to choose judiciously. If, say, you’re taking a course in Dickens (one very fat novel per week) you had best pair it with a course in the Metaphysical Poets (a handful of poems each week).

Summers really ought to be for doing something other than course-work. That ought to be down-time from the rigors of the school year. If you are working summer jobs, as I did, you really feel the intellectual vacuity of your life and really anticipate the charm of going back to school come the Fall. Likewise, l would think, if you are travelling or simply hanging around and desultorily reading.

German is a tough language. I had no high school background in it when I took it in College and made the poorest marks I ever made in any course, barely scraping through. Yet I enjoyed the experience and don’t consider it a loss (nothing is ever really a loss). I have from time to time returned over the years to this or that piece of German writing with dictionary in hand. Though the vocabulary is elusive, the syntax and sound somehow got into my head and modified it accordingly. I always encounter the German tongue as an old friend incompletely understood.

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Re: post #19

Wow. Ok. Beginning to get a sense that UChicago is inconsistent at best w/r/t what constitutes “competency”.

@JHS do yo know if that Arabic course was offered under the Summer Language Institute (or whatever it’s called)? It would appear that is the only venue for taking any language over the summer. Wondering if there is an option of, say, taking a less intensive version that only covers part of the requirement (and gives the students a head start for the following academic year). Cramming a full year of language into one summer seems ridiculous and a full day/every day schedule wouldn’t leave any time for internship/summer job.

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I don’t remember whether at the time there was a separate “Summer Language Institute.” The course he took was presented in a different way in the catalog than the SLI course is presented now. The current description at least tips you off that the course may not be the same as the normal Beginning Arabic series; the course he took was descried as a substitute for standard Beginning Arabic 100-300, which turned out not to be the case. I think his course was 10 weeks, not 8 weeks.

He was able to do a part-time summer job on campus. It was essentially a continuation of the term-time job he held for most of his time at Chicago, which was as much an extracurricular as a job. It was very important to his overall experience at Chicago, and he loved it, but it definitely contributed to his sense of exhaustion and burnout towards the end of that summer.

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I think your math is a little off here.

Assumptions:

  • Typical quarter class = 4 units
  • Units required to graduate = 180
  • Entering college credits = 0

You would only be able to take three classes (12 units) for 3 quarters, not 6.

  • 16 units x 9 quarters = 144
  • 12 units x 3 quarters = 36
  • 144 + 36 = 180

If you only want to take 12 units (3 classes) in a particular quarter, I would save those quarters for when you find yourself with 3 particularly difficult courses. When you’re taking 16 units (4 courses), try to balance no more than 3 difficult subjects with 1 or 2 subjects you find easier or less time consuming. Most schools allow you to take up to 20 units per quarter, so if you find yourself with a light course load, you can always add an extra “easier” class.

This is from the Stanford website, but would apply anywhere IMO.

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That’s all lovely, but if you look at the Chicago course catalog, the minimum graduation requirement is 42 courses, or 3.5 per 12 quarters. Academic courses at Chicago all have the same value. You really can take 3 courses in 6 quarters if you want, but comparatively few students do that, for the reasons marlowe1 expressed.

Colleges are different. Chicago isn’t Stanford. You have to read the course catalog for each college separately.

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^^^ I just realized that and came back to edit, but too late. Oops. :slight_smile: The second half on still applied, thought, I would think.

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So, according to the Summer Language Institute website, the introductory German intensive is a 7 week course, M-Th, 4.5 hours per day. It’s the equivalent of the 100-300 series (first year German) and satisfies the competency requirement. It’s around $7,000 tuition.

  • OR -

D17 could reboot her French education, take basic French for a year as her fourth course, really learn the language this time, and we wouldn’t be spending any more moola.

Hmmm.

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So the French placement test is a series of tests, each about 1/2 hr as I recall. If you pass one, then you get to go on to the next. Don’t remember exactly but DD made it to maybe 5th test which placed her into 202 (1st year +201). Perhaps it’s 1 test= 1quarter? The whole language requirements thing is very confusing to me and she assured me she still had to take 1 quarter of French despite placing out of 4 quarters. She decided to take 201 rather than 202 because she heard the teacher was good. She had a good experience although she was surprised at how much work it was.

She should have tried the AP test (despite not having had AP) as all she would have needed was a 3…but we didn’t know that until it was too late to take the AP test.

Personally, I think the whole placement thing is much more complicated than it needs to be.

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@JBStillFlying note that the university’s summer classes are expensive on their own (~$6500 if I recall) and in terms of opportunity cost (most summer internships for students pay $4000). Avoiding them unless they’re necessary to graduate on time is the best policy, 101-3-level language classes are some of the easiest classes in the College so I wouldn’t put one off to the summer for courseload reasons.

Also remember students will be assigned academic advisers they can discuss these things with - they’re usually pretty helpful because they have experience from so many students

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@phoenix1616 my D17 does plan to spend time with her advisor on these issues. She is also considering beginning the CIV sequence rather than SOSC. her first year in order to test out the history dept. so will be bouncing that off her advisor as well. Anyone have any thoughts on that, by the way? Do you need SOSC before beginning the Econ major (in case she’s still thinking of double majoring with Economics)?

Something apparently new this year is that they do pre-register in early August so she’ll still want a decent understanding of her first year courses well before then. Hence all the discussion now. She just graduated and isn’t quite on summer schedule for work yet so plenty of time for course research and placement tests in between all the grad parties :slight_smile:

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@JBStillFlying Would your D17 be taking CIV in addition to HUM? Unless it changes, HUM is required to be completed during the first year, or so says my First Year.

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HUM is required first year. She will also be taking the calculus sequence. So basically it comes down to SOSC of CIV as her third course (can’t remember if they are two or three quarters for the sequence).

Would love her to do FL as well during first year. We’ll see about that. She’ll need to get FL, Phys. science and bio. science out of the way at some point. The advantage of FL early on is that she gives herself room to take more advanced courses later on. She’s pretty sure she’s not going to be taking any science beyond the Core.

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@JBStillFlying I took Civ my first year, also to test out the history department. I have mixed feelings on the wisdom of doing that.

There’s a good reason that there is a traditional order of Hum, Sosc, and Civ. Hum has the shortest and easiest readings. Sosc’s readings are about the same length as in Hum but are significantly harder and denser. Civ’s readings are, difficulty-wise, about the same level of Sosc, but much, much longer. It takes a certain amount of hubris to come in as a first year, probably with very little idea of what you’re in for, and declare that you think you’re ready for Civ. Not many first years can just sit down and read a few hundred pages of Arendt or Kant or Burke and understand what they are saying. I know only a handful of people here who were probably actually ready for Civ from the beginning. I certainly was not. Had I waited, I think I would have got way more out of the course content.

On the other hand, Civ is not meant to be an all encompassing course. Like the other core sequences, it is meant to teach you to read, to think critically, and to synthesize arguments. Though I find myself rereading many of the books we read, I think the lessons it taught me in how to read are invaluable. Paradoxically, I may not be able to understand them now had I not read them before. I also understood enough to have a better grounding in philosophy and history and to know where I want to go from there, to know which classes I want to take and which books I want to read. Just because I didn’t understand it as well as I could have doesn’t mean that it was a waste of time.

In the end it is, like most things here, a personal choice. Another thing to consider is that Civ will heap 200ish pages of dense reading on top of all your other work each week. I don’t think students should take Civ their first year unless they’re really sure they want to do it. I don’t regret it, but I can very easily imagine a reality where I do.

If it says anything - I didn’t end up being a history major, though anyone that looks at my bookshelf might assume I am.

As for Sosc and the econ major - they’re totally irrelevant. The core is not a prerequisite to anything except fulfilling your own intellectual desires (and graduation). If you want to, you could finish any major in your first three years and take Sosc your fourth year. Though that would be pretty silly to do, the core is more meaningful if you do it early cause then you have time to build off it and take classes in areas the core touched on but that you want to explore more.

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In many ways, Sosc is the core of the core of the Core, the core of the University of Chicago experience. As such, it really makes sense to take it relatively early, because that’s where you encounter the texts that underlie a lot of the shared intellectual culture at Chicago. Or such is my impression. Both of my kids took it first year, with Hum, but I think most people take it second year when they have their legs under themselves more.

If your kid is interested in taking a quarter abroad, taking Civ courses first year would be something of a waste. Most (not all) of the abroad programs are set up to satisfy the Civ requirement, and they are really popular for that.

Also take into account that the Civ courses in Hyde Park are populated with a fair number of third- and fourth-years, and hardly any first-years. Do you really feel confident in taking that on?

Is it really the case that the Civ courses are taught by history faculty? I guess some may be, but it wasn’t my impression that Civ = History, despite there being a fair degree of overlap.

35

My D actually chose to sit in on a philosophy class on Kant during her overnight! LOL. She’s perfect for UChicago. Actually, the HUM and SOSC sequences are each 3 quarters so it’s probably best to get them out of the way during first year.

Here’s a question: for SOSC she’s especially interested in the Classics in Social and Political Thought (I, II, and III) which, based on a previous syllabus, includes reading Plato’s Republic. She was also thinking of Philosophical Perspectives for her HUM which also happens to include Plato’s Republic. This might sound ignorant, but is this repetition of materials between two core sequences a drawback or a bonus? Would it make more sense to read Plato in one sequence (either HUM or SOSC) and reserve the other for something completely different? That might be a bit difficult to accomplish being that you aren’t guaranteed your top choice of HUM (because everyone has to take this sequence first year). Or should she not worry about repetition so much and just enjoy a potential overdose of Plato?

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@JHS about half of the Civ Core - and the courses my kid is interested in - consist of history dept. classes:

https://orientation.uchicago.edu/page/civilization-studies

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HUM sequences are up to 3 quarters, but can stop at two. Each student needs to take a total of 6 quarters of HUM, CIV, and art; that includes, at a minimum, two quarters of CIV and HUM and one of art. The final quarter can be a HUM, CIV, or art course.

There is some overlap between Classics and Phil Per, but overlap isn’t a bad thing. Getting more than one perspective on the same text (or reading different texts by the same author) adds a level of depth to your understanding of the material IMHO.

I highly recommend Classics. I didn’t care much for the first quarter (though in retrospect we covered several important concepts), but I’ve never learned more from a class than I did from Winter Quarter Classics. Spring Quarter is wrapping up, and we’ve read three fascinating texts (I’m less sold on two others, but still enjoyed discussing them). I brought some sleepless nights on myself by managing my time poorly - every SOSC involves some heavy reading, and Classics is one of the tougher sequences - but loved the course anyway.

@JBStillFlying

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In reading through the orientation stuff online, it appears that the incoming class is really supposed to have a good idea of what their fall schedule should look like by pre-registration time in early August (understanding, of course, that first choices for HUM and SOSC are no guarantee and they are supposed to rank their preferences). The class should receive their fall schedules about a week before arriving on campus. Advisers are available during O-Week in case of questions but it sounds like everyone should be taking advantage of summer advisors as well for basic questions. Is this process different/expedited from prior years?

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Completely different. It used to be that you couldn’t register for anything until you had a one-on-one meeting with your advisor during O-week, during which you would register. Slots in popular classes were released on a staggered basis so that people with early appointments weren’t given a huge advantage. Lots of folklore about core classes and pathways through popular majors was shared by upperclassmen during O-week, too. Until a few years ago, math and foreign language placement tests were given only during O-week, which meant that you couldn’t/shouldn’t pre-register for classes in that area, either…

First choices for Hum and Sosc shouldn’t be that much of a problem, since the popular courses have multiple sections that meet at different times, and when you register – at least in the past – you don’t necessarily know who would be teaching the section you are in. (And, because the section teachers often change every quarter, knowing who you are going to have this quarter doesn’t mean you know who you would have next quarter.)

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Yes, this is new. Even last fall, things were run as JHS notes. It did make for a rather crazy O-week and I think it is better to do it in advance.

One issue was that the incoming students did not receive the results of their calculus test (taken in a pain in the butt manner locally during the summer) until O-week, so did not know what they would take there. I believe DD also found out during O week which Physics level she had been placed into. Don’t remember when she got the language placement results back exactly but probably was during O week also.

If they have it arranged so that one can get the placement test results and sign up for classes in advance, that would be way better than what they were doing before, in my opinion.