Three's a Crowd ?

<p>Thanks for the many responses and suggestions. The two girls are Korean - which I did not mention in the original posting because their ethnicity is not the issue and I did not want anyone to get the idea that there is any ounce of prejudice in my concern. If there was only going to be two girls in the room - my D and one other girl there would be no concern whatsoever. One of the girls is new to the US, the other is coming from NY. They are all in the honors program so I am sure that these girls are bright and speak English more than passably. Additionally, I wish that I could say that my D was put in there because of her open-mindedness, multi-cultural experience,etc. because she has been on an exchange program with students from the UK, participated in the People to People Program , etc. However, she is attending a large state university (OOS) and the only question that was asked for housing placement is smoking or non-smoking. Interestingly enough, when she first got the roommate information yesterday she was in tears and terribly upset to the point that she said that she didn't even want to go there anymore and should have chosen one of the other two places she had considered. She must have subsequently either communicated with one or both of the girls or some of her friends gave her a different outlook because later in the day she seemed to be fine and asked when we were going to start packing- although she never mentioned the dorm situation again. So - I am going to just keep quiet for now, and be positive if she brings it up again.</p>

<p>Side note: Korean is an extremely difficult language for a native English speaker to pick up. As a marker, I'd rather try to pick up Mandarin or Japanese. The "pick up some of their language" option is not as viable in this case as it might be with others.</p>

<p>
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"I think TwoKids D should be super friendly but also make it clear from day one that she'll feel very left out if the girls chat with each other in her presence in their own language. It's very rude! "

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</p>

<p>Personal opinion on this advice: If me and another Latino are chatting it up in Spanish and someone comes by and tells me to speak English, it's not going to end well. </p>

<p>If it's two people that are speaking a different language, why should two people have to go out of their way to speak to one person in a language that may not know. Wouldn't it make more sense for just the one person to go out of their way to communicate with the two people? (assuming they don't speak English. Even if they do, that one person should still make an effort to learn some of their native tongue as well if one expects to be spoken to in one's native tongue)</p>

<p>"One of the girls is new to the US, the other is coming from NY. They are all in the honors program so I am sure that these girls are bright and speak English more than passably. "</p>

<p>Of course, they speak English well enough to get by in this country. However, when it comes to best expressing themselves, it's likely they'd do this in their native language. To expect them to speak English all of the time while in their dorm room is, I think, unreasonable and insensitive.</p>

<p>At the same time, it would be rude and insensitive for them to always speak Korean while in the room with your D.</p>

<p>For your D to use them as an opportunity to learn a few words of Korean and to learn also some things about the Korean culture would be, I think, a good idea and open the door to having a nice relationship with them. After all, her rooommates are being expected to spend virtually 24/7 adapting to American culture. While this is their choice since they chose to go to college in the U.S., it still adds to their stress as college freshmen.</p>

<p>It sounds as though both your D and the Korean American girl from NY are going to be bridge people, and this is probably a deliberately arranged trio designed by the school in an attempt to make things easier for the international student. In theory that is very nice. In actuality it is an added challenge for your D and quite possibly also for the Korean American girl, who may not want to have to be a bridge person and would rather get on with her own life. Still, all three roommates will be challenged in various ways, and it sounds as though your D is handling it reasonably well at this point. It is also possible that the girl who is new to the country is already fairly familiar with American culture, depending on family circumstances and high school attended, so there may not be as much acculturation needed as initially thought.</p>

<p>If dorm and orientation activities are well managed, there will be lots of opportunities for your D to meet other people; if not, she will have to look slightly farther afield, in classes, in activities, and so on. </p>

<p>(I'm surprised smoking is even on questionnaires anymore since it is presumably not permitted in any dorms anywhere, or so I'd hope--though I supposed a smoker's clothes and hair will smell no matter where the smoking takes place, and I suppose people also break the rules.)</p>

<p>"If it's two people that are speaking a different language, why should two people have to go out of their way to speak to one person in a language that may not know. "</p>

<p>You could look at the other way, as well. Two of the girls definitely know English and if the other one doesn't, well, then tough for her. Not really. It's all about courtesy and kindness. It's unacceptable to exclude someone in this context. The speakers of Korea have an obligation to be courteous and understanding of the fact that their roomate doesn't speak Korean. I think the onus is on them, more than even on the English speaker. The "it won't end well" comment doesn't speak well for you, either. There is a time and a place for casual, personal conversation and a time and a place for courtesy and respect. If you were my employee and conducted yourself that way, I would fire you.</p>

<p>I would call Res. Life and discuss your concerns. it's their job to explain their reasoning to you. I understand your point about being "odd person out" and that this is NOT a matter of ethnic prejudice. Perhaps D could get on a wait list for a double should the worst occur.</p>

<p>These situations occur even without ethnic or linguistic elements and can be painful. Dorm drama was a major factor in D's life Soph. year, not Frosh, but it was awkward just the same. D has a single next year, which upset her at first, but she is eginning to see its merits.</p>

<p>I don't suggest calling resident life and discussing one's concerns. I think that would make one seem like a very much overinvolved parent, and also possibly prejudiced, too. Calling the resident office about this sounds like a way that could start your D off in college on the wrong foot.</p>

<p>The college is under no obligation to explain their reasoning to a parent. They may not even have to explain any reasoning to a student if they basically match people based on things like smoking/nonsmoking. </p>

<p>Except for the fact that she has a triple with roommates whose native language is the same, she basically knows nothing about those roommates. Problems may or may not arise due to the roommates' background. For all your D knows, they may all end up being very close friends, but that's not likely to happen if a parent or the OP's D calls resident life to ask a question that's a thinly disguised complaint.</p>

<p>To me, the best thing that the OP might do is encourage her D to have an open mind and to learn now what she can about Korean culture. </p>

<p>Out of curiosity, I asked my S, who will be living in a triple (roommates unknown as of now), what he'd do if he had a roommate from Korea and one from NYC whose native language was Korean.</p>

<p>Looking at me as if I'd grown a second head, he asked why I'd think that would make any difference. When I suggested that maybe he'd be a third wheel, he told me that anything could happen depending on the rooommate's personalities, and he wouldn't know about their personalities until they started rooming together.</p>

<p>Seems to me like a good way for the OP to approach this situation.</p>

<p>I also think it's important to stress what someone else said. Most roommates who were arbitrarily assigned do not become best friends. College students usually find their closest friends through the campus activities that they join. If one is expecting that one will be best buddies with one's roommate and will do everything together, one is likely to be very disappointed even if your roommate is of the same race as you, has the same native language and is in the same major.</p>

<p>Exactly, Zoosermom. </p>

<p>This is an American college. The internatinal student will be taking classes that are conducted in English & interacting with English speaking classmates for the next four years. This is her choice. If an American chooses to study abroad, it is expected that he will have a good grasp of the native language going in & will make an ongoing effort to improve his skills while overseas.</p>

<p>Armando, I'd recommend speaking less in Spanish & more in English so you can improve your communication skills.</p>

<p>"This is her choice. If an American chooses to study abroad, it is expected that he will have a good grasp of the native language going in & will make an ongoing effort to improve his skills while overseas."</p>

<p>All of this is true. However, I don't tnink that anyone would expect that the American would only speak the other country's language when in the privacy of their own dorm room.</p>

<p>As I said before, it would be unreasonable to expect the girls to only speak English when in the presence of their roomate. If they always only spoke Korean in their roomate's presence, I agree that would be rude. At the same time, however, I think that it's understandable that sometimes they may speak Korean to each other and to their Korean friends, and there will need to be some tolerance of this.</p>

<p>Bringing up the subject early, and with open mindedness and flexibility, may help establish some guidelines on this that all can live with while also being comfortable in their own rooms.</p>

<p>I think that we should approach the roommate relationships from the other side- not going in looking for best friends, constant companions, etc</p>

<p>And more of, well, if we become bossom buddies, that is wonderful, we should be able to not make each other crazy</p>

<p>my D has a friend who is on crew, and for months out of the year, this girl is like she is from another planet, so the language thing is not the on'y "barrier" that can happen</p>

<p>the OPs D needs to go in with an open mind, open heart, the understanding that roommates aren't the only people that will be in her life at college and to "feel left out" because they MIGHT speak in their native language is putting too much onus on them - </p>

<p>I would not call, what is the point? a person could be the odd man out if the girls were in the same major, f they were couch potatoes, if they were big drinkers</p>

<p>another point, a Korean from NY, well, they could be "american" as the OP's daughter is, don't most students play up the ethinic component of an application like they do sports, etc</p>

<p>I mean my D would probably have as much in common with anyone Korean or African or French person from NYC then she would from Alaska (having lived there myself)</p>

<p>CGM's post reminded me of something else. If one roommate is from NYC and the other is from, for instance, Seoul, and the OP's D is from a small city or town, the big city/small town differences or differences in families' socioeconomic backgrounds may obscure anything else. For instance, for all we know, the girl from Korea may be a diplomat's daughter.</p>

<p>Princess or peasant won't matter if the Korean speakers don't include the OP's D. Let's hope this is a bunch of worry for nothing & the girls all have a great experience together.</p>

<p>point is, so what if they don't include OPs D....they are two people on a campus, many roommates don't hangout, my college roommate was never there and when she was, she didn't talk...mattered not</p>

<p>if the two roomies speak martian or ewok to each other all year, the OPs D needs to make her own life</p>

<p>annoying sure, not perfect, well what is, I would rather have a roommate who ignored me than one who brought in "friends" all the time and I was sexiled</p>

<p>"point is, so what if they don't include OPs D....they are two people on a campus, many roommates don't hangout, "</p>

<p>Exactly. It seems to me that the OP and her D are expecting a lot of the roommate situation. Most roommates who were randomly assigned do not hang out together and aren't best friends. It's a good roommate situation if they agree on things like cleanliness, privacy around romantic relationships, when lights need to be out, and use of drugs , alcohol and loud music. </p>

<p>It's not unusual for roommates to have totally different friends and to have private conversations with those friends that exclude the roommates, which one also can do in English by talking softly.</p>

<p>I think that the OP can help her D best by encouraging the D to quickly get involved in one or two campus organizations that interest her. Relying on that is a better way of getting friends than expecting friendships from roommates.</p>

<p>I'm glad your D is settled again into packing, and you're wise to hold thoughts on it all and let her conduct her own process. </p>

<p>WHile thinking about it, I reread your OP. You wrote:
"she will be living with two girls of the same ethnic origin who speak a language other than English as their first language."</p>

<p>That's a lot to know. Are you sure that the NYC girl's first language is Korean? If she's Korean-American, and mostly grew up in NYC but attended American schools, she might comprehend spoken Korean (from her parents) but is likely bilingual. She might speak perfect, unaccented English and think in English half the time. She could be perfectly fluent in English even if her native language is Korean, if what the housing people actually asked is, "What languages other than English do you speak in the home?" which is how I've most often seen that question phrased on questionnnaires.</p>

<p>When it's just the two of them in the room (your D and the Korean-American or Korean from NYC...), they might chatter away in English with no hesitation.</p>

<p>I taught English Second Language and the classic training is this: a child who arrives in this country under age 7 can become bilingual for life even if the parents speak no English, because of attending schools in America. Some that young only master the ability to comprehend the parent's language but do not choose to speak it with them; sometimes the parents speak in their tongue and the child replies in English even in the home.</p>

<p>If their arrival age as new immigrants is between ages 7-12, the children can still attain non-accented English. </p>

<p>After age 12 (if that's when they arrived from the old country) it's harder to shed the accent but not impossible either for children. Unlike parents, their motivations are more emotional to fit in and belong. This psychology of motivation causes them to want to learn English all the more, and lose an accent all the more. If a kid arrives here with family during that age span (7-12), they can attain complete bilingual fluency, speaking both tongues as if a native-born person in both.</p>

<p>Children are far more motivated to learn the new country's language than their parents because kids want to make friends, while parents need it for just business or the marketplace. So there's the classic theory. </p>

<p>You can't assume that because Korean is a language spoken in the home of the girl from NYC that she can't or won't prefer to speak ENglish with your daughter. So the bridge person might in fact be the Korean American girl, with more pressure on her than your D...</p>

<p>Sounds like it's time to let your thoughts flow and back to packing (me too) ;)
I used to worry my Mom all the time with stuff and then get on with it, leaving her still musing and worrying...</p>

<p>I think kids are nervous right now. To share a bit...mine just hit a glitch in registration and started wondering aloud why he was even majoring in his area...threw the whole thing into question, very unliike him, but just for a moment before regaining his equilibrium. Maybe our kids just have a bit of "cold feet" as the departure dates draw near. So, take heart and stay positive!</p>

<p>
[quote]
if the two roomies speak martian or ewok to each other all year, the OPs D needs to make her own life

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I don't think the OP is expecting her D to stay in the cocoon of her dorm room at all! Nothing of the sort was implied. I also don't think you are being honest if you are suggesting that being excluded, or having your two roommates speak martian, would not add a level of unpleasantness, lonliness, & awkwardness to the dorm situation. Of course the OP hopes her D can avoid that. You would, too. Even for a campus gadfly who embraced every social & club opportunity available, the drom room will still be important. You still have to spend some time in your room, if only to store your belongings, sleep, shower, and dress. It would be much less stressful if one's roomates were friendly.</p>

<p>Is it known that the Korean-American girl has Korean as her first language? I know several Korean-American students -- and Korean is their second language.</p>

<p>Sorry, your thinking that 2 girls of Korean heritage from totally different worlds will have an instant bond your daughter can't share is racist thinking. For decades black kids have been arriving at schools where they represent under 5% of the population. Should they insist that they not room with 2 whites?</p>

<p>You chose a large state school, enjoy the diversity.</p>