Time For A Laugh: Stupid HS Guidance Counselor Quotes

College Majors Music Major
41

<p>I would never expect the GC to either assess talent or to be knowledgable about music schools, for exactly the reasons that Shennie states. They really don't have enough potential music kids coming through, even in the big high schools, unless the child attends a performing arts high school (where knowledgable GCs would be my expectation).</p>

<p>Someone (or several of you) on this board gave the advice a while back about getting an independent evaluation of a student's talent. I think that is right on. Actually, acceptance into summer programs and other successful auditions can also reveal whether a kid is even in the running. But I really appreciated that advice about a qualified teacher who has no vested interest in your child listening and offering honest feedback...and this person would likely NOT be a GC.</p>

42

<p>Expanding a bit on shennie's thoughts:</p>

<p>Just how much guidance is a guidance counselor supposed to give? I remember my 2 kids seeing their gc at most twice each year for sign off's on academic schedules, and maybe once, maybe twice more when it came time for college apps. This was to deliver paperwork and initiate or follow through on the application process. In neither case did the gc try and dissuade my kids from their choice of schools, or their majors. </p>

<p>To put this in perspective, it was a fairly large suburban public hs, total enrollment about 1700. Both kids' graduating classes were about 350. School has a 45% minority population; 55% of '05 graduating class went on to 4-year colleges, 42% to 2 year colleges. As an aside, it is a school and locality noted for a very solid public music program, and this particular high school sends any where between 6 and 12 kids a year to various conservatory/schools for performance across a number of instruments. (The area is served by 2 high quality youth symphonies as well.)</p>

<p>In hindsight, we probably did not need the gc's to be more than administrators, doing what they do to make sure the apps and transcripts
went where they should on time and correctly.</p>

<p>Each kid did the initial research for their particular programs, and we as parents followed up on the financial, distance, potential safety aspects. My son only auditioned at three schools; it was completely sufficient given his level of audition proficieny, plus we had a very good safety with rolling admissions within the state college system. My daughter's animal care program limited her to 2 New England schools, as she did not want to apply to the third in Colorado due to distance.</p>

<p>Her GC was actually pretty intrigued about her choice of major, and added both the major and appropriate schools to his master list.</p>

<p>As stated, for performance, music, arts, or any specialized majors I really don't think the GC should be an authority. But I would reasonably assume that they should at least be able to begin to tell you where to look, probably not try and talk you out (or in) to a particular school or discipline, act like they "know you" scholastically or personally unless an actual bond has been established, and most importantly make sure the apps and transcripts are sent on time and accurately.</p>

43

<p>The GC at my kid's school tried to be helpful by providing list of schools that were "strong" for music but a lot of them were not schools that seemed appealing, for location and non-music reasons; knowing that she is not a musician and had no expertise about the process, we didn't depend on her advice (or follow it). The school music teachers offered no useful advice. His private teacher, though helpful with some contacts at a couple of conservatories, was so tied to her own preferences (e.g., doesn't really believe in double degree programs, thinks Juilliard is the be-all and end-all of schools) that she began to actually intrude into the decision-making in unhelpful ways, directly with my kid, who fortunately is very independent minded. Ultimately, parent and kid have to be able to become savvy -- contacts through summer festivals, visits to the schools, and information on this site were the most helpful sources for us.</p>

44

<p>Ah, an opportunity to vent! S's school could not be WORSE for musicians. S had audition the other day. One of his buddies, who used to be not so hot, had really improved. He is homeschooling and practicing like a fiend. MY kid is stuck at a school that insists he take a third year of foreign language AT the school in order to graduate (he wanted to take it over the summer to leave room for practicing for auditions). So, he is taking advanced placement science over the summer but the STUPID school also wants him to take science AT the school (even though none will fit into his schedule). I am SO FED UP. They also are making him fulfill PE requirements next year (which are team sports). S's public school would have been so much more accommodating it's not funny. The counselors are utterly useless. If not for CC, I would be totally in the dark.
S is not doing the conservatory only route, so he needs the academics, but in order to do this dual degree stuff, we could have used a MUCH more supportive school. AH, I feel better. Good thread:)</p>

45

<p>Our GC came to my son and told him she really wanted to help him find a college, she was very interested in performance. While she did direct his attention to some good schools, she did not seem to have alot of info on the audition processes. We knew nothing about any of it, and fortunately I found this site prior to the start of auditions. After all was said and done and he had made his choice, I typed up a booklet that, in very simple terms explained where to start, what to expect, what to look for, etc. Including the recommedation of this site and gave it to the choir teacher, the drama teacher and the GC. I don't know if they'll use it, but I tried.</p>

46

<p>Just bumping Zep's old thread in case anybody wanted to add anything.</p>

<p>With acceptances now in hand, (most) decisions made, and having thrown accolades or bricks at hs music teachers/ensemble directors, let's hear how your gc has hindered or helped you and yours through this process.</p>

<p>I could use a laugh.</p>

47

<p>Ours did NOTHING for my D; surprising for an Arts High School, you would think. I wish I'd found this forum earlier in our search for good schools... I went into the GCs office two days before Thanksgiving break and there was a foot high stack of Dec. 1st deadline transcript requests she'd left behind. Unbelievable!</p>

<p>Especially surprising considering that I have taught at the school for the past 25 years--but at least I knew what to expect; I'd heard stories...</p>

48

<p>I'm pretty sure this thread was started originally from my frustration with my son's high school college counselor 12 months ago.</p>

<p>This same counselor emailed me last week saying he'd just visited Oberlin. Knowing that Oberlin was once on my son's list, he was excited to share an interesting tid bit. The admissions people he spoke with said that "if a student had an awesome audition, they would be flexible with the academic record." </p>

<p>I was touched that this counselor took the time to look into this for us - - quite possibly one of the only kids in the high school of over 2,000 students, who plans to major in music. Of course, we already knew this (from this site) but I thanked him just the same. Hopefully, the counselors will become more knowledgeable in this area for future performing arts students.</p>

<p>Best of luck to those who have gone blindly through this learning process; and sincere thanks to those who have answered many questions.</p>

49

<p>D's counselor showed us the rec he wrote...</p>

<p>We about died when we read "she is a Superstar!" We had recently watched the movie "Superstar" with Molly Shannon, and could not stop laughing :) We still laugh when we think about it.</p>

50

<p>
[quote]
Hopefully, the counselors will become more knowledgeable in this area for future performing arts students.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Hi Rudysmom, It was a great sign that your son's counselor contacted you, and I also think it's great to give some positive reinforcement to these efforts. Your experience is fairly common I think, in that often counselors have never dealt with a performing arts student before. We were really grateful for the efforts of D's high school college counselor, who told us right away that we were "on our own" because he knew nothing about music schools, but then supported her throughout the year, especially as her advocate with faculty who didn't understand why she was missing more than the 3 alloted "excused absences" for college visits (she probably missed 21 days or more) and helping adjust her AP schedule but still explain to colleges that she was taking a "challenging course load". I know there are a lot of counselors who mean well, but just don't know enough to be helpful. Ours was a gem!</p>

51

<p>Just this week I was upset when I noticed a scholarship (last years announcement no less) posted on the school's website for students entering college to study music ed, theater, or any of the performing arts. As my D is the ONLY student out of 112 graduating to be going into this profession I was annoyed when she told me it was not posted on the scholarship board nor had anyone in the guidance office thought to tell her about it. Well, the day I noticed it I reasearched and found out it was due the day before (found this info out on another school's website). Was not too happy but this is typical.</p>

<p>As an aside, it was apparently reported in our local paper that of my D's graduating class only 70% of the freshman she entered with are graduating this year. I was ASTOUNDED that this could happen and just ashamed to hear this statistic. Out of the graduating class only a handful are going to 4 year colleges, our GC visited classes this year and told the kids not to even bother applying to 4 year schools as most would not get in and even if they did they could not afford it!!! My D was mortified by these comments.</p>

52

<p>Great postings on GCs even a year old. Dad & I both college profs used to admissions/apps/selecting majors/etc. so didnt even contact GC except for one letter and transcripts needed. Ours was ok but not knowledgeable--young, inexperienced but very cheerful. Thankful for the Internet and this site.</p>

<p>Old comment about student forced to take PE leads me to my own funny story. At our HS, marching band exempts students from PE, so S never took PE. This year (senior year), S dropped band due to unsupportive director & to allow more practice for auditions, so lost PE exemption. S was able to substitute Health during fall semester, but has to do PE this semester. 8 days before his first audition in Jan. he was hit in the mouth (he's a sax player) with a volleyball. Minor split lip which ended up with little impact--other than fright--on audition. </p>

<p>So in PE he steps out of the way when the ball comes and only hits it when it's headed directly for his face. Does it with humor and the other kids laugh. His big fear was another split lip or a jammed finger. Fortunately, we made it thru audition season successfully.</p>

53

To my son: “with your background, I suggest Smith”; To me: “That’s a good question, have you tried googling?”

54

My son got shocked faces with his long transcript request list last fall, about 10. Maybe more.lol. He was still deciding where to apply and send prescreens so he didn’t want to have to worry about last minute requests. The office said it was the most transcript requests they ever had.lol That is a little sad.

55

In response to a request for a nomination for a schools :

We don’t normally nominate our best students for that scholarship.

56

Lol. That is hilarious Disneydad.

57

Ds was…
“She must have 4 years of math courses for the california state requirement in order to graduate. So I have put you in ore-cal.”
My poor d who has dyscalculia was terrified…she had taken algebra twice (8th and 9th grade) to get a b and had worked her tail off to get Cs in geometry and algebra 2.
Of course i looked at the california statues and guidelines and my response was…
“Ah no…its a california state UNIVERSITY requirement and she has no intent of attending a school in california let alone a cal state school…so she will be TA for Mrs choi”

Needless to say she admitted she knew nothing about the arts admittance process and she didn’t offer any additional advice nor recommendations. She didn’t even blink an eye when we asked for 15 transcripts and a two week independent study to do a new england audition tour.

58

With music you hear all kinds of things with guidance counselors and schools, most of them simply are clueless that arts admissions are different than academic ones. Some of the classic ones I have heard over the years, either personally or from other people I trust

“Music schools have even tougher academic criteria then academic admits, you better improve your SAT scores and increase your AP tests”

“Well, if you are really interested in doing music performance in college, you should take a rigorous academic load in high school, and work closely with the school music program, and when the time comes her (the music director’s) and my (the guidance counselor) letters of recommendation will get you into any program you could want to apply to, I can almost guarantee that”

“Music in high school is a great hobby, and if you get serious, you can do that in college or at a conservatory…why, Yo Yo Ma never went to a music school”

“You shouldn’t major in music in college, like any kind of arts curricula it is not rigorous, and you come out maybe knowing how to play the instrument, but little else” (this one was a direct quote from a guidance counselor I met, he supposedly worked for a well known private school in NYC…

:“I don’t recommend majoring in music, not only is it extremely unlikely you will make it in music, but having a music degree will be a black mark if you decide not to do music”

What bothers me the most is it is okay not to know about music, I understand that it is its own world, but rather than admit that, and maybe actually do some research, they claim knowledge, and I know kids who might otherwise have a chance at getting into a good school for performance, totally got screwed up by advice like the above.