@momocarly Thanks for the description of KSU. Unfortunately, it is not in our budget but my dd fell in love with it when she looked at it and would go there in a heartbeat if it were.
this is late in the game - and probably other threads with more postings on this topic. I have a lot of kids (6) and experienced 4 - of different qualifications. Coming from our county in Virginia is EXTREMELY competitive - so we used to call our son the “family butthead” (jokingly) with his 3.0 (which gets you NOWHERE into a virginia public university.) Long story short - from all my experiences with the 4, I have found that you have to play every card in the deck in order to skin the cat - and it can be done (including of course, a very viable option which we didn’t end up using,) attending community college… (the eldest/ the girl straight and narrow with every credential in town - we still had to pull a last minute card out the deck to get her off the waitlist into UVA - and no, it wasn’t a “who you know” thing - we know no one.) Every one of them had a story - transfer in, do this do that. But the biggest (and why I am writing) success story - my only son, “family butthead” - captain of the football team, 2nd district wrestler, 3.0 (which used to mean something,) 1180 SAT - was naturally rejected from all the good virginia public universities. But…like they say - don’t assume a college (like out of state or private is unaffordable…, or that you wouldn’t have even thought about it to begin with…) A small private out of state (ridiculously expensive) recruited him for division 3 football - we told him he was crazy - we don’t have $55000 (tuition and housing etc) you Nut! - no, he assured the coaches said the alums will give money. we told him he was an idiot. Long story - but to shorten - and it did cost us a HUGE pretty penny… The school put up about $25,000 a year, i threw in 10k a year, his father (ex husband,) threw in 10k, and my son took 10k loans a year. prices did go up overall. But this is the story - (completely unexpectedly - as he was “family butthead”) he attended a hoity toity private to the tune of $230,000 education over 4 and 1/2 years (he mucked up freshman year OF COURSE), came out with $40k in loans which was SQUAT - compared to what happened. These variables - translating his rigorous athletic focus (from 6 years old) into academics too (becuase he was under a microscope in a small college with highly ranked students (not like him), and as he was prideful - brought out the best in himself to rise to their standard. He was also (of course) director of social for the fraternity, so he did maintain his “fool self” too/he’s the coolest person ever truthfully… nuff said. All the while, whole family still “worrying” he’s gonna be a gas station attendant - he’ll never make it. Conclusion: Arrives graduated out of college (us thinking we’re going back to high school “posse” days in the basement and gonna have to throw him out), bizzarely “switches on his light” INSTANTLY, poised to make up for lost time, a CHANGED person from attending that school. Now - 4 years out of college - he is earning over $200k a year, certainly far higher than myself, my husband and ex husband ever did in our entire lives in annual incomes individually, all with MBA’s. He is the family success story. Back to the original thread - Bs, Cs, - Be your kid’s consultant - throw every possibility at them, don’t say no to the finances till you hear what the college might do, find cheap"ish" public universities in other states, use the cool card - if your child has anything they might want - research everything, beg, make calls. if your kid is on the waitlist - (the eldest we had) call every dept. head at the school, who might need a skill they have - you might get them in. To the -case of my son - the B/C guy, we would NEVER EVER have considered for a hot second - him vs. all the “higher performing” kids in our family who all went to public college) - being “allowed” by us to attend some expensive private school - due to the cost alone for God’s sake…, besides him acting like an idiot with insufficient focus for 3 last years of highschool… And there you have it - for the price of walking out with $40k in loans (a pittance over a lifetime, and down now to the last 8k or so), you have a “B/C” kid - who messed around all through high school - sometimes schoolwork, sometimes partying like a fool, always the lead of the posse - “the kid” in highschool you want to know - destined for who knows what as the “B/C” guy (out of our county). And this is the kid - who is on schedule (he’s on a very fast track) to be a millionaire. For real - no joke, I’m not being boastful. Our other kids were extremely high performers - and are all “normal” folk in the business world or others - on track to live paycheck to paycheck - like us/their parents, normal folk for their lives - and that’s all good! But the B/C guy… - he’s the one gonna make the millions!!! Don’t be quick to assume “x” is the only answer - or that there is “no answer” for the B/C student - there are a hundred ways to skin a cat in the college game I’ve learned. And begrudgingly - I’m about to face that ULTRA challenge with my 5th child/girl - the current “B/C” student - yup - we’re planning to play three to four different cards out the deck. the regular one - get rejected from all the virginia schools, and then we’ll play with the other tricks up our sleeves. And maybe she will go to community college, probably her best fit. BUT FIGHT ON PARENTS OF THE B/C Student - they may well be the best, the smartest, of us all - the diamonds in the rough - you never know…DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING AT THE START - start with your mind open to every stone you can turn.
@momocarly I know that story well my 3.0-3.4 gpa oldest did the “but I love him” and quit school.
That was 3 bf’s ago and still no school and now 25.
Irks my sould and breaks my heart at the same time. Always has a excuse why …but but but.
I was very pleased when at dinner the other night my sophomore said, “I don’t understand why people don’t think going to community college is good. I mean, why not?”
We are fortunate to live in a state with very good community colleges and our local one is considered the best in the state.
Before the dinner conversation, I was already thinking cc for D20. I hope her views don’t change.
@Kardinalschnitt what is your home state. Kansas State participates in the Midwest Exchange program I believe so if you are in one of the states that participates it could bring the price down a bit. We looked at it living in Indiana but too far away for my D to really consider. The majority of out of state schools we looked at were ones that either participated in some type of reciprocity on tuition or ones that my D qualified for merit. Ended up staying instate but we had several options that were affordable if she wanted to go OOS.
I live in Ohio and this is one area where I think our state excels for instate students. If you live in Ohio and are an average student you will have a plethora of options. From state schools near most of the major to moderate sized cities that will offer scholarships to average students (Bowling Green, Youngstown State, U of Toledo, Wright State, U of Akron, Cleveland State, Kent State, Ohio University etc.), to the branch campuses of some of these very schools as well as Ohio State and Miami University branch campuses. Most of the major cities have excellent community colleges and often 2 or three. We also have dozens of private colleges that are perfect for the average students. They will be more expensive but aid is available.
College is expensive and is more so if you have average grades as opposed to excellent grades. Living in Ohio I think gives a more affordable options than some states. Not inexpensive or cheap just more affordable than some with a number of options.
@dcolosi Hey there! Thanks! We live abroad so are non-resident everywhere. My parents both grew up in a small town not too far from Manhattan, so I’m famliar and suggested it right off the bat when we started looking.
@MACmiracle I did three semesters at a CC as an adult and thought my education there was every bit as good as my three semesters at an expensive liberal arts school. I loved my International Law professor, a retired attorney who just loved to teach.
The catholic colleges are a good bet for such students. Some that come to mind in the northeast are Siena, St. Bonaventure, Fairfield, Le Moyne, St. Mike’s, St. Anselm, Manhattan College. Despite all being private some rank very high on value. St. Bonaventure for example has a net cost of attendance averaging $19,000, ranked 3rd in Value by US News in the Northeast. It is a lovely campus with great tradition, a great D1 basketball team and fantastic alumni.
Let me echo @dcolosi regarding the tuition exchange programs. For us, because of MSEP, an out-of-state school was more affordable than our state flagship, and the scholarships available there brought the costs down even further. (They also were an excellent fit in other ways.)
@goinplacesmomsD I feel you! I also live in Virginia and the grades needed to get into the universities in this state are over-the-top difficult. Not just the great colleges - UVA, William & Mary, VA Tech - but even JMU and GMU do not look at you unless you have a 3.5 or higher. It’s crazy in this state.
My DS has a 2.9 GPA and 1000 SAT. He wants Graphic Design or Digital Art, so while we will apply to VCU Arts, that is highly competitive and I doubt he gets accepted. So we are turning OOS. It’s amazing how many options we have further south and even in Ohio, some reasonably priced, others a bit too high for us. Regardless, I’m confident we will have some good options when all is said and done. We have already sent several applications out and more will be completed in the coming weeks. DS takes one last shot at the SAT in October, and hopefully he will do a bit better.
For those interested, check out Eastern Kentucky and Southern Mississippi. Both have OOS annual tuition at $10,000. My OOS neice goes there for just under $20K/year. Southern Miss is the same. I believe as long as you have a 2.5 or higher, you are an auto-admit. Something to consider…
What about UMW, CNU, Longwood, which would be considered pretty good in many states?
For private universities, Ohio and Pennsylvania have a good hundred of choices for you.
Southern Mississippi is in a nice location.
DS wants to go to a bigger college, 12,0000+ students. It doesn’t have to be huge, but mid size at least. Besides, CNU is not easy to get into, most kids have a 3.5 or higher. UMW doesn’t have a Graphic Design program. Longwood is just too small.
Then yes… Look into Bloomsburg, WVU, Towson, SUNYs (Plattsburg, Cortland?)
@sbgal2011 yeah, hahah, doesn’t it suck we live in Virginia (or Fairfax County critically). Arghhhh. Prob is my daughter is being unreasonable - we’re gonna have to force her hand to apply to Radford and ODU (and they are great schools too, they’ll probably reject…) I don’t know why on earth she thinks she has a shot at JMU with her 3.0 and under 1100 SAT (just because her sister is there - who had to transfer when they didn’t accept her with her original 3.6 and 1200 GPA!) So like I say, and thanks for the extra data - we’ll play every card. Including the fact that with the schools (out of state) that she applies for musical theatre - as my other daughter did, due to the competitiveness, she won’t get into the musical theatre program - but the colleges out of state will (and did with my other daughter - everyone, even Virginia Tech - I’m a legacy, except dear James Madison who watlisted her.) So my angle with this kid - is happy new year, put me through the rigorous exhausting process of “also” applying for musical theatre majors/auditions at out of state schools - cuz I’m the one who secretly knows that the OOS’s will accept her academically (wanting the money) and when she’s sitting there at the end, with no musical theatre offers (too competitive even though her older sister made it), but she’ll probably have none, and NO virginia schools accepting her - I’ll know that those “big envelopes” with the happy new year you’ve been accepted to Joe Shmoe school out of state - and though you didn’t get musical theatre -you can major in something else. Yay - she’ll have some envelopes and she’ll have somewhere to go. I can’t believe how screwed we are in Virginia. My “bum” son I refer to, 30 years ago, when I went to Va Tech, would have walked right in with his 3.0, high SAT, captain of the football team and everything (good) else he had going on…LOL - now if you don’t have practically a 4.0 - don’t even talk to Va Tech or JMU. Makes me sick. And now the others following suit - unlikely for my girl to get into CNU, VCU, GMU, Mary Wash, and now I’m sickened she may not even make it into Radford or ODU (which she refuses to attend - she’ll change her mind if she gets in, the little fool.) But the one thing I will not tolerate is seeing my child in pain (my fifth), at the end with ZERO acceptances - so yeah! Out of state we go. I’ll try the Kentucky idea on her you mentioned, they have an MT program I believe… Thanks for sharing fellow Virginian!
@momocarly @hannuhylu I am soooo sorry for you, your pain, and your daughters. Those dang Bf’s ruin everything. My fifth child (girl) the one I’m dealing with now a high school senior. She had 3 quarters of 3.75 last year, junior year (trying to show her upward trend to colleges “in time” for the applications,) and then the “first love” boyfriend (who was a nice guy turned idiot) of a year, dumped her right at the front of the 4th quarter. She was almost suicidal - because on top of everything else, both being in theatre - she also had to see him at show rehearsals every day. it was a nightmare of mammoth proportions. We wanted her to withdraw. She refused and said she would not be defeated. That fourth quarter (imagine how bad the academic results were,) dropped that solid 3.7 GPA she had for 3 quarters…down to a 3.15 for the year…bringing her to her wonderful pretty much same ole 3.0 cum for 3 years.) It just pisses me off that after a year (and being a nice guy) he didn’t have the decency, the empathy, to just wait two freaking months - her whole future is affected because of the competitiveness of colleges in our state. I hate bf’s now - I am going to stay ahead of that stuff in the future so this disaster doesn’t happen (dropping out of college) which many many girls do after the bf deal (two of my best friends daughters did,) it’s is a killer. I am going to coach her on this madness - she’s beautiful - don’t get wrapped up with your definition being some guy. Arggh (and I have five daughters…, three olders are good to go, but I have a sense - this one’s gonna be living in our basement and not in college at some point due to some fool boyfriend.) Her older sisters and brothers are all worried about this too. It’s written all over her. She’s just too aimless and not realizing her own greatness. Bummer bummer. I’ll pray for you and your daughter as I pray for my own kids!!! best to you
Academically easy and good for MT : Montclair State in New Jersey. A 3.0-3.2 +1000 SAT totally gets in (not necessarily for MT though, obviously).
Muhlenberg has good MT, no need to be a major to participate (but competitive so talent and passion required), and she can apply RD with her senior year first semester results. SAT would need to be better, or she can apply test optional but I don’t think scholarships are as good for test optional applicants.
I am here to say don’t sell your kiddo short on the schools they choose to apply to either. My solid B/B+, mid 20’s ACT score, DD2016 took a chance and was accepted at some GREAT schools, (was accepted at all of the schools she applied to in fact) where she was on the 25% bubble…places like Purdue, Drexel, Ithaca, Pitt. They are not relegated to the “directionals”. She ultimately ended up at a jesuit/catholic school, many of which seem to show the love to the B kids and are willing to see the potential and develop it.
I agree there is a prevailing perspective here on CC that B/C kids just don’t measure up when, in fact, IMO, these are the kids that are most likely to succeed, simply because they have learned to roll with the punches and keep going. Let us remember that B by definition is above average and I really do not see how that simply is viewed as “not good enough”.
Sure it gets under my skin when the entire conversation about the USNWR ranking centers entirely on the top 25 schools, as if the rest don’t matter and campus visit reviews rarely cover those school in the 50+ category. I will admit to getting exasperated and disappointed when thred conversations inevitably, repeatedly, turn to the logistics and metrics of NMF and multiple APs/SAT II test and have been told more than once that it’s because that is the subject matter close to “most” posters hearts. The fact, that yet again, we are attempting to start a thred to address the needs of B students says a lot, it is self segregating, and it is sort of sad that is what we feel we need to do to have our voice heard. I hope that we all continue to pipe up on “regular” CC thred, that we will continue to speak from the back of the classroom until the B student is acknowledged as capable and as valuable as the typical “high achieving” CC student, in every educational environment.
@goinplacesmomsD while I agree BFs can suck. I 100% blame my daughter.
She has had more input, coaching, advice, than most she just continues to choose a “We will figure something out!”, " I dont know what I want to be?" , " How will I see xxxxx if I go back to school though?".
It obvious she has no desire. She wont be young forever and regret is pain that rarely goes away imo.
At my work we found that the 2.7 to 3.4 college students with good college ECs were often better than the 3.8 to 4.0 new hires. Engineering types in a competitive work environment! Having gone through a lot and survived can make a student better in the long run. I have NOTHING against a good B, higher C student in HS. They can do anything that they put their minds to do. If they want to do well they will.
I get mad here because sometimes the colleges that aren’t top 25 or 50 or 100 are considered BAD. My top graded son chose a state university that wasn’t up there on the list but his major is ranked highly and is well know in the world! Don’t count out colleges that aren’t so highly ranked. Choose a college perfect for your student. There are a lot out there and they aren’t all on the east or west coast!
@labegg, our 3.1, 1320 SAT S is going to visit Ithaca and Syracuse this week. I’m conflicted on whether I’d want to seem him pick either; his issues with anxiety and procrastination make me think he’d do better at a smaller LAC (and he is applying to McDaniel).