Ladies and gentlemen, I’ll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did. But you can’t hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn’t we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn’t this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but we’re not going to sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America.
Are you seriously going to argue here that basketball teams deliberately exclude non-black recruits? Athletic teams are a meritocracy. If you can run/swim/jump to a winning standard, you in-- no matter what color you are.
Then at Alabama, there’s the practice of black girls being deliberately dissed by white sororities because of sorority alumnae pressure
http://www.businessinsider.com/report-racial-segregation-university-alabama-sororities-2013-9?IR=T&r=US&IR=T
Should be up to each individual campus community.
Personally, I don’t think there should be a complete elimination of fraternity/sororities across the board.
Maybe as a check on fraternity/sorority party excesses, university admins/LEOs should give us party crashers carte blanche to crash their parties and raid all of their food, spirits, and desserts*.
If we raiders are feeling generous, we may consider leaving a couple of kegs with bud light. 
- Hope they include bratwursts, chicken fried steaks, filet mignon, t-bone steaks, etc. :D
** We’ll take all the pecan, shoofly, strawberry rhubarb, key lime, and other wonderful pies from your tables. And the ice cream for all those ice cream socials, too.
Normal sorority chapters don’t have alumni weighing in on the girls who should join - the alums are only there for behind the scenes and for financial management of the house’s affairs. It’s been discussed extensively that Alabama and similar schools have systems that are over the top and not reflective of the norm. There’s not a single national sorority that says that alums should be involved in membership selection.
Can a public school ban all fraternities and sororities without cause? How does freedom of association work in a public school setting? Discrimination and bad behavior of a particular house is cause. But banning all fraternities and sororities? At many schools there a local organizations that are not Greek organizations but function just like them. Do they get eliminated too?
They can just go off campus and then the college loses all control over them.
I think the premise of the article reeks of PC. The are fraternities and sororities of all types ; social, professional, service, white, black, mixed, straight, gay, etc, etc. and they are all private organizations. No one is being forced to join and as private organizations they can exclude/include whoever they want for whatever reason they want.
And it’s easy to target fraternities when something like this happens because they’re highly visible and, frankly, because a lot of people are ready to dislike them based on stereotypes. But, let’s be honest, this kind of behavior reflects a larger cultural issue, something that goes beyond the Greek system. It’s endemic and won’t be solved by disbanding a few social clubs.
I don’t feel Greek life should be dismantled. In my opinion, it’s weird to blame this stuff on the organizational structure 'n not the cultures specifically behind each one. Worst case scenario, maybe some campuses halt specific verifiable problem-fraternities for four years before reinstating them.
Frats-- typically it’s a frat, not a sorority or the Chess Club – regularly have egregious excesses because frats have alcohol-fueled open parties. Then it’s same ole, same ole-- the college slaps the frat on the wrist, and couple of yrs later it’s another frat and another incident.
Other campus organizations have more transparency about how they select for their exclusive group membership. Other campus organizations tend to select on the basis of the student’s achievement, rather than explicitly on the student’s looks or explicitly on whether the student’s parents are rich.
A public school can derecognize a fraternity as a student organization, though it may still continue to exist as a completely off-campus organization. At some public schools, there are some recognized fraternities and some unrecognized completely off-campus fraternities. The latter may have violated conduct rules or agreements, or did not agree to conduct rules or agreements that the school wanted them to accept for recognition as a campus organization.
A private school can go further and disallow some or all students from joining fraternities.
@-)
I have problems with this comment on a few points:
First, there are other “closed” organizations on some campuses with selection processes and criteria that are just as opaque as those of fraternities and sororities. At NU, for example, many of the service organizations and special-interest clubs are “closed” with new members being required to go through an application process. Some of these organizations are quite selective, with acceptance rates as low as single digits, and many accept less than half of the students who apply for membership. NU’s administration proposed an “open” policy for clubs at the university and is getting push-back from the student government and leaders of selective organizations who do not want to open their membership to all comers. I think there are valid points to both sides of that debate. But the fact that the debate exists at all is evidence that Greek organizations are not the only selective groups on many campuses.
Second, despite what some would like to believe, fraternities and sororities do not choose new members “explicitly” (or even implicitly, for that matter) on looks or money. That kind of statement reflects preconceived attitudes rather than real knowledge of the process and how it works. The Greek system differs wildly from campus to campus and has evolved over time. On many, if not most, campuses, looks and money have nothing to do with how members are selected.
Most of all, however, inserting selectivity into a discussion of “sexism, rape culture, and binge drinking” confounds rather than clarifies the issues. Because the two have nothing to do with one another.
@EllieMom Looks, social status, and wealth do play a factor in membership selection on most campuses. A factor, not the deciding factor or even the most important factor. Someone who is wealthy and attractive might not be automatically cut for being just below the required 3.3 or 3.0 g.p.a., for example. All of us are a package with good and not-so-good attributes, and they all play a factor in how we are received, not only in the Greek system, but in life in general.
This is such a dumb article. Like honestly what prudes. Second, only people who want to get involved with frats get involved. Only people who want to pursue such a lifestyle have to “suffer” the power struggle. I honestly wonder what America is coming to. And those of you who think sex and drinking in college is a problem need to calm down. College is a time for experimentation, fun, and pushing the boundaries.
I agree college can be a place for pushing the boundaries. Like meeting different types of people than you knew in high school and in your community. Or learning new subjects and maybe have a professor or two as mentors. Have your political/religious/social views challenged, maybe some changed. Maybe make lifelong friends, meet a future spouse.
‘Experimenting’ with alcohol and drugs? Doing ‘it’ with strangers? Nothing new or original about that. You may have well as stayed home and hung with some of the kids who didn’t need to go to college for that.
My son went to a university where only 15 to 20% of students are members of fraternities or sororities. Nevertheless, Greek organizations dominate student government there because, well, they’re organized, and nobody else is. So Greeks have an impact on campus disproportionate to their numbers.
1 Like
I think that’s a fair statement. I will agree that looks and connections can play a part in selection for some houses on some campuses. But neither are “explicit” criteria, nor are looks and money as universally important as some would like us to think.
But, to the main point, selectivity is not the issue here.
I, personally, don’t see “sexism, rape culture, and binge drinking” as a fraternity problem. It’s a campus culture problem. Targeting and dismantling the Greek system will not solve it.
I think that’s a good point. It suggests to me that instead of dismantling Greek culture, those organizations be used for good. There is a movement to do that on many campuses through organizations like MARS (Men Against Rape and Sexual Assault) and MOVE (Men Opposed to Violence Everywhere), which often have substantial backing and participation among men involved in Greek life. I think efforts along those lines would be more effective in addressing these very real problems.