Timeline for AMC, PSAT, SAT, etc

Parents Forum
21

I suspect most students have done at least some level of test prep for a long time, probably going back to early versions of college admissions tests in the 1920s or before.

FWIW, when I was in (good public) HS in the mid-1980s, normal (for the smart kids) was some exposure to verbal-SAT-type questions in English classes (analogies and antonyms, IIRC), plus the PSAT (nominally a practice for the SAT) in 11th, plus a ~dry run on the SAT late in 11th, and the big try early in 12th. Plus all the standardized testing we’d taken from about 3rd grade on. Plus, test prep books if not classes existed and were used, too.

While it’s likely that test prep has intensified in some corners in the modern age, it’s not exactly like there was a golden age where elite students walked into a classroom with a “what, SAT? OK, I guess I’ll take this” attitude. (Notwithstanding the occasional humblebrag by folks who claim to have been hungover on test-morning due to partying the night before
)

22

As for modern test prep:

Some schools will give a practice for the P(ractice)SAT in 10th. If your school offers, fine, if not, no biggie, IMO.

Then some summer self-study/practice tests leading into 11th, then the PSAT in fall of 11th, then take the ACT/SAT as many times as you want, starting around then.

Our kids took the PSAT but never really did the “should I take the SAT or ACT” thing - we’re in Missouri, which is basically an ACT state. Among other things, our state offers a scholarship (Brightflight) to high test-scoring kids who go to college in-state (public or private), and the structure of how they set the score thresholds means it’s easier to hit the ACT benchmark (though in theory a high enough SAT score can work).

23

15 minutes of test prep did seem to be well into the normal range back when I was in high school. But it now seems to be an extreme outlier on the low end.

Also, the typical test prep for Achievement tests (SAT subject tests, before their recent discontinuation) and AP tests then was taking the course. I.e. no additional prep for these tests. But that seems unusual on these forums in recent years.

24

I don’t know when you went to HS, and of course, your experiences are your experiences, but I suspect that MOST kids at the kinds of HSs that sent kids to ~top 50 universities were aware of the significance of the SAT at least as far back as the 1980s and probably much further back. And yes, there were training exercises and so on, available and presumably used. FWIW, I think Kaplan and Princeton Review and the like have roots at least as far back as the 1980s, if not earlier.

Re: APs - they were less widely taken back then, but again, it was possible to study for them. I took 4 APs in the 80s without taking “AP classes”. At least one of them (Calc AB), I self-studied with a prep book for a day or two before the test.

25

The high school I attended sent about a third of graduates to four year colleges immediately thereafter (additional graduates went to the local community college). Most of the colleges were in state publics, but some privates were represented.

Test prep certainly existed, but did not seem to be done to the intensity that seems to be the norm now.

These were not that many AP classes, and it was not the norm to take all possible non-foreign-language ones plus the foreign language of your choice.

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26

Back in the late 80s, I went to one of the best public high schools in my metro, and while most of our top students went to our flagship university (one of the very good ones), or maybe a more local LAC, some went to Ivies, MIT, other “national” universities and LACs, and such.

I knew test prep classes existed, but at the time, at least at our school, that was considered something you might do if you were bad at tests. If you did well enough on the PSAT, you just went ahead and took the SAT, maybe doing some practice questions first. If your SAT result was bad enough, you might retake, and might get help, but most of us got SAT scores we thought were good enough on our first try, without a lot of prep.

And that made some sense because the SAT scores you needed to get into even the most selective schools at the time were not that crazy high. My S24 laughs every time I remind him of the SAT score I used to get into a very well known college. And then when I mention my HS GPA, I think it nearly turns to tears . . . .

Of course I have no idea what was going on around the rest of the country, and for that matter it is possible some peers did classes or a lot of practice tests without me knowing. Still, I think it is fair to say the norm today of very good test takers planning to do a lot of prep and multiple rounds of tests to get the best possible score did not exist in my HS at that time.

But that is the norm now, and so I think the OP does need to plan out a possible process like that in advance (understanding you can still stop “early” with a good enough score).

27

  1. SAT scores were re-normed in ~1995 (officially), and possibly an upward drift was allowed thereafter (unofficially), so you can’t compare a specific score (1250, say) on a mid-80s SAT to 2023, without making adjustments.

  2. There has been SUBSTANTIAL grade inflation over the last few decades, so, again, you can’t readily compare a GPA from the 80s to today.

  3. Adjusting for the 2 facts above, there has probably been more sorting of high end students (90th+ percentile) into selective and highly selective (i.e. elite) institutions, as its easier for students further away from these schools to find out about them (the internet), travel to/from them (both as prospective students and as matriculated students), communicate with home, etc. Also, greater realization of the potential rewards of an elite education, greater scholarship dollars at elite schools, etc. And finally, the much higher % of Asian kids in the HS pool, with a culture that does, in fact, reflect the “tiger mom” stereotype some of the time, has helped move the bar higher.

28

Although this stereotype is associated with visible race and ethnicity, the likely actual cause was more about post-1965 immigration of skilled workers and PhD students. Their American kids likely have both nature and nurture pushing them toward higher educational attainment compared to the general US population.

29

This of course is true. Still, while my adjusted score is pretty good, it would still be in the range a person with similar college ambitions today would likely consider retaking.

There has been SUBSTANTIAL grade inflation over the last few decades, so, again, you can’t readily compare a GPA from the 80s to today.

This of course is also true, but also it took me like about 1.5 years to really figure out HS and start getting top grades. I think it is likely I would be much more at risk today with a similar transcript, although maybe it would be more hidden thanks to grade compression at the top. Very hard to know.

In the end, I actually don’t believe it would have been impossible for me to get admitted to the same college today–assuming I was working within the new system from the start. Not sure I would, but I agree this is not really an easy question to answer.

there has probably been more sorting of high end students (90th+ percentile) into selective and highly selective (i.e. elite) institutions

Yeah, the application rates at the most selective colleges have gone up disproportionately since my time, and I do think likely more people from my sort of school system are at least trying to go to one of the most selective private colleges these days, and competing accordingly from an earlier age. Maybe a few colleges were truly “national” back then, but within the notorious “T20” list, you quickly get to many colleges few if any of us would actually have considered.

And I believe there are plenty of statistics on all this. Like, I remember reading how Chicago once drew far more of its students from the Chicago area or at least nearby states, but it has been nationalizing in recent decades.

So, now I think most people familiar with college rankings would rank Chicago above our flagship university. But back then, a school like Chicago was not perceived that way by us, a far shorter list of schools was, and so we were just not applying to places like Chicago.

And in that sense, if you are a very good test taker and would be happy going to a very good in-state option, maybe you still don’t need an extended test timeline.

And I agree in some sense it is the increasing nationalization of the colleges that may slot above (in the eyes of some) the flagship publics, but not quite to the top of those rankings, that may be driving a lot of why “one-and-done” is much less a thing in the modern era.

30

In CA “one and done” has a whole new meaning: if you don’t do well on the PSAT then you don’t take the ACT or SAT because instate public colleges are now test blind. Our high school has seen the average SAT score increase 100 points since 2020 because poor test takers no longer bother. The majority of students fall into that category.

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31

While she phrased it politely, let me be perfectly clear - compliance is not optional The OP (and I) have zero interest in your strolls down memory lane, SAT changes over the years, matriculation data for your child’s HS, or anything that does not address questions asked by the OP.

Please take any “Oh look, a squirrel” posts to DM, if the conversation needs to continue at all

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32

No AMC testing here, but my kids mostly did the PSAT in 8th, 9th and 10th as a requirement at school. It varied due to Covid on who took which over the past few years. Then during the summer between 10th and 11th grade, they do some studying - mostly a few practice tests and then working on the problems they got wrong. My oldest did the July ACT, September and November SAT and the October PSAT. It was probably too much, but we both expected some to get canceled, since it was 2020. The next one just did two SAT and the PSAT during the same times. Both had had Algebra 2 in 9th grade and AP English Lang in 10th, so it seemed to be a good time. Plus, they had much more free time in the summer than they did during the school year. And it got them studying for the PSAT. My oldest is NMF and the next will be commended. They were both glad to not have to study for the school day SAT in April, as they were studying for IB and AP tests, busy with robotics and the musical, etc. Adding more would have been very hard on them.

My youngest just finished 9th grade, but was in precalculus, so we are considering having him take the SAT in August while the math is still fresh before AP Calc next year. I’ll still have him work next summer though for the PSAT, so we are on the fence for it this summer.

Maybe that gives you some situations to consider in your timing.

33

S22 started taking the AMC10 in 6th grade. D25 had not taken any and will not. It is really just how much your child enjoys math.

34

If a student knows that, a year or two in the future, that every school they will be applying to will be test-blind, and no scholarship or merit-based financial aid for which they are applying considers an SAT score, and no school to which they apply might use an SAT score for placement, and has no interest in/possibility of earning a NM Scholarship, requiring a confirming score, then there is no point in taking the SAT, no.