Tired of Children's Theatre

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>I hope I didn't miss a thread on this topic. I did look-</p>

<p>My daughter is a freshman in high school now. She looks and sounds older than she is but community theatres won't give her leading roles for obvious reasons. I don't blame them. It would be too wierd in the love scenes. She does get great "small" parts in these shows. However, in children's theatre, she will often get the lead. Is it better to keep doing those children's shows where she is getting a nice collection of leading roles or better to do the community theatre shows where she'll have a little snatch of vocal solo here or there or is a featured dancer? I have to admit I am a bit weary of kiddie shows- I usually end up doing much of the costuming and so many of the folks are very green. It's a relief for me to work with the more experienced community theatre folks.
But for her resume & college applications down the road, which is better? </p>

<p>(We home-school so she doesn't do high school productions).
Thanks!</p>

2

<p>When I read your post, I felt to compelled to reply, because my D was more or less in the same boat as yours, except she is not home schooled, but older looking, etc. She decided I believe it was during 8th grade that she preferred doing "grown up" community theatre/regional theatre and make the most of any part she was given. She was fortunate in that she continued to get cast and gradually made her way to more featured roles, at times age appropriate and other times "playing somewhat up". She thoroughly has enjoyed working with adults and peers who were and are as dedicated & passionate as she is, whereas during some her youth theatre experiences, she would run into kids who were only there because their parents "made them go". I think the professionalism of children's theatre varies greatly from area to area from what I have read on this board, but I would advise your D to go for where she feels most happy. My D has friends who stuck happily with youth theatre, it just did not work for her.</p>

3

<p>Personally, I would say that if I had to choose, I would go with the community shows. The key though is that she is mature enough for them. As long as she continues to work hard at it, overtime her parts will become bigger and bigger. But this requires a proven track record and consistency.</p>

4

<p>From having a son who grew up in Children's Theatre (a wonderful experience for him) who moved gradually into other theatres during junior high and pretty much moved out of Children's Theatre in high school, I recommend that you let your daughter decide what she wants to audition for, try for both, and choose what she wants to do. It doesn't hurt to go back and forth. We've known many kids who loved doing Children's Theatre all during HS and who never really branched out.</p>

<p>Separately as a mom - I recommend that you put your foot down on the volunteer activities. It's very easy to get burned out if you are expected to do too much. This should be separate from your daughter's decision about where to do shows.</p>

<p>My experience - I've been an officer in the Children's Theatre Guild for years, and at one time I devoted a huge amount of time. I finally gave up one of my volunteer activities there - put my foot down - told them I couldn't do it any more and that I was getting burned out. The really good news is that I've now been treasurer of the organization for several years, a good way to use my talents as an accountant, and now I enjoy what volunteer work I otherwise choose to do with them. I am still actively involved, and my son has been out of the picture at that theatre for 5 years. Actually, continuing my involvement has been a great thing to do after empty nesting!</p>

5

<p>PS - I do not think that resume building will make a very big difference for college admission. I believe that admission to MT hinges almost entirely on the audition itself. As long as she continues to get good training in all areas, with experience in theatre (regardless of which theatre or which role) as time allows, she should do fine. She also needs to keep up her academics in the process, for acceptance into some of the MT schools.</p>

<p>Also, once my son moved into doing more adult theatres, he usually had smaller roles, as you are describing, but he really enjoyed the experience.</p>

6

<p>Thanks everybody. The foot is going down! :)</p>

7

<p>I know this response is a bit late, but just thought I'd put my 2 cents in. It sounds like your D is going through the same scenario that mine did. She did children's theater, community theater, school shows, summer stock, and semi-professional productions from the time she was in elementary school. We intentionally chose to participate in many different venues rather than just one. It was a great experience for many different reasons.</p>

<p>Some of the important lessons she learned: you don't always get cast, you don't always get the lead roles, and some directors (and casts) are difficult to work with! It has given her a very professional attitude that has been most beneficial. In addition, it added a lot of variety to her resume. And while it's true that the quality of your audition is the most important factor in gaining admission to a college, a good resume certainly doesn't hurt.</p>

<p>Regarding lead roles -- college theater departments know the difference between children's theater and community theater. They really don't expect young teens to be playing adult roles. As your D gets older, she will grow into those parts. Personally, I think kids learn more from being ensemble members in a good production than from being asked to handle roles that are out of their age range. That can lead to bad acting habits. So don't worry too much about the "small" parts -- they are totally appropriate at this stage of the game.</p>

8

<p>OH GREAT!!!!! Why didn't I see this thread sooner!!!! My s is once again roped into doing a show that he doesn't have time for, he needs to learn to put his foot down and say no and I need to say no when he asks me if he can do it. Although we are both very flattered he gets asked to take a role without even auditioning, but doing two shows at the same time in two different towns is a bit much. He is a senior and now we have to fit auditioning for schools into the mix...aahhhh....shoot me now!!!!We went though this this past summer doing two different shows for two different companies at the same time and it was horrible..when does loyalty come into the picture or should you just grab anything you can???
HELP.....PS he did pull both shows wonderfully...but it drove us insane because on of the companies gave us a hard time knowing he was in another show but casted him the lead anyway and complained when there was a rehearsal conflict....help any suggestions???? Sorry so long.</p>

9

<p>It is unfair to both theater groups for a performer to do two shows at the same time. Rehersal conflicts impact every other performer.</p>

<p>In some cases, it may be made clear upfront that performers winding down their production are invited to audition for one that will have slight overlap. This happens around her with the all boy & all girl Catholic high schools. They need each other's students for these productions, and as girls outnumber boys in MT by more than ten to one, the girl schools will welcome male leads who may have to join rehersals a week or two after they begin. But in those cases, complicted dance routines or scenes that the boys aren't needed in are started earlier.</p>

10

<p>Theater is extremely addictive. Many of us on this board share this drug as our vice. Fortunately, our children have "picked up" this mystical, magical, adrenaline pumping drug of choice over more dangerous possibilities. We are truly blessed that performing on a stage is the biggest risk that most of them take.</p>

<p>That said, it never ceases to amaze me how many parents let go of the reigns when our very talented kids look to be cast in more than one project at a time. Our children, like all kids, require guidance, loving limits, direction with juggling theater/vocal/dance projects and their other responsibilities.
It's our job to support our kids to clarify their priorities. They look to us for guidance and decision making and it doesn't help them when we are impulsively pulled into the compliment of being cast in a show.</p>

<p>Academics, giving back to community, caring for friendships, nurturing family relationships , household responsibility and learning how to relax are all skills which must be learned and practiced by adolescents so that these tools are sharpened into adulthood.
We have a longstanding paradigm. One project at a time, with a break in between is all that we commit to. Our d is usually so "high" at the end of a run, followed by exhaustion and "let down", it takes a couple of weeks to refuel and rejuvenate.
I am stunned when a parent says to me on the last night of a run, after the cast party ends at 1AM, "Oh tomorrow so and so starts rehearsal for his/her next show." We all need time to process our experiences, to stop and breathe and then go on.</p>

11

<p>Mamalu, what a lovely way of expressing it. THis applies to sports addicted families, or other passions, as well.</p>

<p>I believe it is SO important to guide kids into being honorable about their commitments & responsibilities. Too often kids are only focusing on how they can squeeze it all in and don't appreciate how their special needs & accomodation requirements impact everyone else.</p>

12

<p>Yes, it's nice to be wanted, and it is really hard to say no, isn't it? I would recommend that you try it, though, especially this year. The auditions are really, really important and stressful, and if your S is overtired, he's not going to be at his best. It's been mentioned before on this thread, but it's worth repeating: your resume pales in importance next to your actual performance at the audition. That should be your priority right now. Good luck!</p>

13

<p>Agree completely with Ericsmom - on the day of the audition, the number of shows becomes irrelevant. They need to focus on quality, not quantity, especially if quantity takes away from audition prep or results in one being too tired or vocally stressed to do a good job. One of the best singers my D knew last year didn't even audition for his school's main musical because it was during audition time and he knew he couldn't do his best while rehearsing for and appearing in a show. He had been the lead in pretty much everything up until that point. Admission into good musical theater programs is already akin to winning the lottery so one way to get a leg up right away is to just show up at the audition healthy and rested.</p>

14

<p>To reiterate what other people have said, not all theater groups are created equal, and that goes double for children's theater. If, as you say, the other kids are "green" and you are tired of seeing "kiddie shows," then it's probably not a very good theater. You haven't said much about the community theater, but those places run from high semi-pro/pro quality to downright awful.</p>

<p>Which brings me to my point: Pick the path that leads to growth, and I mean GOOD growth, not the kind that teaches bad habits. If the directors and other actors at the community theater are first rate, then she can learn much just by being around and watching them. Plus, a good director will push her and not let her get away with kid tricks.</p>

<p>Some other considerations:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Many, many school districts will allow homeschooled kids to participate in extra-curricular activities such as sports, theater, etc. You might want to check that out.</p></li>
<li><p>Are there professional theaters in your area? If so, she might want to consider auditioning. She won't be up for anything but kid roles, but some musicals have a bunch of those.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck.</p>

15

<p>I just wanted to add to what others have said. Not all children's theatre is the same. D just finished a stint with the children's thearte here and it is a paid position. Kids make between 500 and 1000 bucks for the run. However she also did a prep program which was only kids in the cast. After 3 years she stopped doing these because they drove her nuts, they served a really important purpose early on but she out grew them.</p>

<p>Now she does a mix of school, community and semi-professional theatre and a lot of dance. We have frequently been caught in the one show going into production ad the other starting up in rehearsal. I am beginning to think this is hurting her more than helping. Since she misses the early vocal rehearsals she tends to not get ensemble solos or smaller featured parts whcih can be frustrating. So it's nice to be cast as a young performer in adult roles, but we have frequently suffered from overcasting.</p>

16

<p>You all are wonderful. Wish we could get coffee together! Anyway, I'm starting to hear that maybe she doesn't "need" any more shows on her resume but needs to do what it takes to be ready for the college auditions- working on those weaker areas which need attention (in her case, sight-reading and preparing monologues).
What sort of bad habits do you see in kids who take on older roles which happens often in children's theatre?
To be fair my D has learned so much from the director of the children's theatre she has been with for a couple of years. She got an excellent start there. They are great people. But having done a lovely show with a mostly adult community theatre group recently makes it harder to go back to the shows with the less mature, less "serious" kids. But maybe there's no "need" to do so.
Thanks for all the insight!
(In our county, home-schooled kids may take academic classes but can't participate in theatre/sports/etc with public school students.)</p>

17

<p>I just looked back and see she is a freshman so she has time to focus on any weak areas. You can tell from this board how hard it is to get into a MT program. Every time I read this board, I am so thankful my daughter wants vocal performance - I'm not sure I could get through what the MT moms and dads are up against. I would think about yoga or pilates classes to increase flexibility and strength - needed for dancing and singing. Swimming is one of the best things she can do to help with singing - every classical singer will tell you that. Maybe she can find an improv class to take to improve state presence and confidence. There are lots of things that can make her a stronger performer that aren't necessarily performing.</p>

18

<p>I would say the biggest problem is bad acting -- there's a tendency to mug and overact. In some cases children's theater sort of encourages that tendency (even with adult actors), since little kids respond to it! Of course, with a quality children's theater it's a different story -- but you did say that this one involved a lot of very inexperienced people.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
What sort of bad habits do you see in kids who take on older roles which happens often in children's theatre?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>See if you can find some old reruns of "Still the Beaver" with Jerry Mathers all grown up. You will IMMEDIATELY see all the terrible tricks that worked for him as a kid that make him unwatchable as an adult. I taped some of those episodes to show to my own kids, almost all of whom were involved in theater in one way or another.</p>

<p>Here are some bad habits to look for:</p>

<ol>
<li> Overacting/mugging: It's an old adage in theater that it's easier to take a "hot," overacting actor and tone him down than it is to take a "cool" underactor and pump him up. I think that's true, and that's the beauty of early training in children's theater. Kids can learn from an early age to go over the top and then have that the rest of their lives. Unfortunately, many of them begin to think of this as "good" acting, and it is for certain ages, certain roles, and certain styles. Translate this over-the-top stuff to other styles, though, and it's simply AWFUL.<br></li>
</ol>

<p>So, as onstage says, you'll see a lot of mugging from kids that just doesn't work in most situations. You'll also see some kids equate pumping energy into a role with "good" acting. Many of those kids will fail to make good choices or, in some cases, even make choices at all. Loudness, bodily movement, and energy take the place of sound acting skills.</p>

<p>One remedy: On-camera training. The camera is brutally honest and, because the frame is so small, each silly attempt to mug or throw energy into the scene usually comes off looking just awful. Camera actors need to learn to feel and react as naturally as possible, adn trust the camera to pick up on that (it does). Camera training, combined with over-the-top children's theater training, dramatically increases the dynamic range.</p>

<ol>
<li> The most obvious choices: This problem crops up in both children's theater and musical theater, in general. The roles in both genres tend to be rather two-dimensional so that the actor has to do exactly no work to understand what's really going on in the scene. There's generally little or no subtext, and that requires little or no acting subtlety. I believe that this is the primary reason that actors in non-musical theater tend to look down their noses at MT actors, and why non-MT theater is often called 'legitimate" theater.</li>
</ol>

<p>One remedy: On camera training helps here, too, but can teach the stage actor to be a bit TOO subtle for some choices to reach the back row of a theater. What you really need here is a good acting teacher, and they're rare. </p>

<p>Other: Some things aren't necessarily bad habits, but just aren't skills that get well-developed in children's theater:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Cold reading: Tends to be over the top, either with too-broad motions or just standing still and reading.</p></li>
<li><p>Textual analysis: Unnecessary for most children's and MT scripts.</p></li>
<li><p>Character growth: Once again, plotting character arcs just doesn't come up much.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>Some more bad habits I just thought of.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Not listening to others on stage. This isn't just a children's theater thing, and you can find it in young actors and older, not-so-skilled actors in fair abundance. Actors with this problem are usually so focused on "acting" and what they're doing and how it looks, etc., that they don't listen and react to what's going on on stage. This is very limiting, and I do believe it can be made worse by children's theater training.</p></li>
<li><p>Commenting: Certain kids learn to sort of "comment" on their roles as they're doing them. You've probably seen actors who seemed to be saying to the audience in some way "aren't I funny" instead of just being funny.</p></li>
<li><p>Upstaging: This doesn't apply to all children's theater (not to the one my kids worked at, for instance), but I've seen a LOT of upstaging in children's theater. Too often, the kids learn to be "on" all the time, pumping energy out even when the scene's focus should be elsewhere. Not only is this a bad habit, but it will make them enemies.</p></li>
<li><p>Playing the issue instead of playing against the issue: Often, the most effective way to portray such things as drunkeness, hurt, boiling anger, physical disability, etc. is to play AGAINST the things instead of playing the things. You'll find children playing old people doing ridiculous stuff like bending their knees, using a quaver in their voices, etc. The trick in playing those roles is to play against physical infirmity, since this is what the physically infirm most often do. Deep hurt is much more affecting if one plays against it, not boo-hooing into your hands to indicate something that isn't really there.</p></li>
</ol>