<p>Clay - My daughter got the same feedback from Tisch today. I am happy that she feels satisfied with the answer given. </p>
<p>My last thought, however, is will there be the “lame duck” syndrome in these two studios for the next two years?</p>
<p>racmom, what do you mean by “lame duck” syndrome and how would that effect the kids?></p>
<p>racmom…I don’t see that as happening because Strasberg (as well as CAP) is a training program even without serving NYU students. The faculty there are professional and would put everything into these NYU students as they do with their other students in their other programs. I can’t see that as changing and Tisch surely will care about these students as well.</p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say is are the teachers at Strasberg going to be putting much effort into the NYU kids when they aren’t going to be working with NYU in the future? Will they really have much reason to provide the best training?</p>
<p>Added to my comment above is that Strasberg (and CAP) faculty will care about the training of these NYU students as when they go out into the world, they have CAP21 or Strasberg written on their resumes and they care about the reputation of their programs because their programs and studios continue on without NYU students as well.</p>
<p>Patricia Decker spoke to me at length yesterday. My d and I were both comforted and left feeling very excited following the conversation.</p>
<p>Ms. Decker indicated that the new Acting and Music Theater Studio currently being created in-house at Tisch will include an advisory board and faculty with noted names in the business. Our kids will be trained by the best and the brightest, which is why they want Tisch in the first place.</p>
<p>Tisch will have increased opportunities to launch even more full scale plays and musicals, (she called these “fully realized productions”, giving more performance opps to all Tisch drama students. </p>
<p>She guarantees that all the students will gain from increased advanced training opportunities for yrs 3 and 4. She stated that with the new studio, visiting artists can develop their own advanced training programs, based on their own areas of expertise, and these offerings would change depending on who is visiting/teaching for the year.</p>
<p>The training seems to be improving, which is what we want from NYU/Tisch and why our kids want to be there.</p>
<p>It’s all good!</p>
<p>Ms. Decker’s words are all quite comforting but you can understand the dilemma of students applying for the Class of 2010 who have to decide soon whether to apply to Tisch vs. Steinhardt for MT if they are interested in NYU. It appears from the dean’s letter that it is the Class of 2010 who will effectively be the guinea pigs for this “new program” with no grandfathering of CAP available. Who will the faculty be in the program and what will the student/faculty ratio be? What will the curriculum be especially in terms of dance where CAP was so strong? Which facilities will be used? How large will the classes be, etc. What are the changes in program funding? Philosophy? Frankly, I had heard that NYU was trying to cut CAP’s budget in half back in January, so this development does not come as a total surprise, unfortunately. If those of you who are currently at NYU obtain any specific information regarding the new program, please share.</p>
<p>Anne, all those questions are completely valid. My hope and expectation would be that Tisch will have to publicize details of the new studio (and its MT program) for this next round of MT applicants and so I hope that is forthcoming in the near future. I cannot see how they won’t do that as applicants will need such information about the program (along the lines of your questions and the type of information that is readily available about the other Tisch studios).</p>
<p>I try to do as much reading as possible on these threads to learn as much as possible. But, occassionally I have a question. I really avoid giving my opinion or make statements because for some reason some people want to argue a point or put me down for my thoughts and sometimes questions. And as sure as I have made that statement, someone is going to slap me around for it.</p>
<p>But, here is my question. Only recently we have been reading up on Vocal Performance in Musical Theater at Steinhardt, had only previously known about the CAP 21 program. Especially now because of the in house changes, is it possible to apply for and audition for both programs? My d will be in the graduating class of 2014, meaning she will be a Sr. in high school next year, and we are very inquisitive about all the new changes at NYU specific to how they affect the CAP 21 and I guess now the Steinhardt programs.</p>
<p>Any meaningful, educational, encouraging, clarifying answers given to me in a positive manner are most welcomed. I will look forward to your answers. Thank you.</p>
<p>Mom at Home…</p>
<p>NYU applicants can only apply to ONE school at NYU. In other words, you cannot apply to both Tisch and Steinhardt or both Tisch and CAS, etc. Your D will not be able to apply and audition for both Tisch and Steinhardts’ MT programs. </p>
<p>The changes do not affect Steinhardt by the way. Steinhardt offers a BM (not BFA) degree in Musical Theater. Tisch is totally separate and unrelated to Steinhardt and there is NO overlap between the two schools. Any changes in studios at Tisch have no bearing on Steinhardt’s programs and so the Steinhardt BM in MT will be exactly as it is now when your D applies to it (should she choose that school to apply/audition at). </p>
<p>The changes at Tisch that would affect your D, should she apply, is that their MT studio will now be their New Studio and not the CAP21 studio. The details of that studio have not yet been released. But Tisch is a BFA in Drama (always has been even with CAP21 and always will be). Simply, the MT studio training will shift from CAP21 (an external studio not run by Tisch) to its own MT studio (the new studio). I hope and expect that the curriculum and other details of the new MT studio will be available for new applicants so that they can know the specifics of that program. In my opinion, while the details are not yet released about the new MT program, I have every faith that Tisch will make it as good as CAP’s program and could even be better. The standards in their BFA program are high. Further, Liz Bradley is the Dept. Chair for all of Tisch Drama and came from CMU where she also headed a department with superb MT training. I am sure she plans this new studio at Tisch to be excellent training as well.</p>
<p>I’m not sure what you know and don’t know but there are differences between a BM degree (what Steinhardt offers) and a BFA degree (what Tisch offers). This is true currently at NYU and will be true in the future and is true at any programs that offer training in MT.</p>
<p>Thank you soozie for advising me in your positive way. I have read many of your post and always can count on you providing the most information in a non threatening manner. </p>
<p>I guess I accidentally confused Strasberg with Steinhardt when I started my post. But, Steinhardt is the program we are looking into. I ordered a mailout from them to learn more. I did know that the MT progam was a BM. Is there a thread on cc that I can go to read up on the differences in the professional market for graduated MTers who have either a BM or BFA? I think I understand the training. Which is why we are considering the Vocal Performance route. After all when college is over and it would be unfortunate to not have much of a career in the professional level, teaching could be an option.</p>
<p>There have been discussions about BMs and BFAs on this forum before. You could use the search function and see what comes up. </p>
<p>I don’t know that the differences between these two types of degree programs (BM or BFA) in musical theater, however, have any concrete differences in the professional market for those who graduate with a MT degree. I believe the differences lie in the training and the emphasis. If you look up any of the BM programs (such as Steinhardt, Baldwin-Wallace, OCU, etc) and put their curriculum side by side with a BFA in MT program (such as Tisch/CAP21, UMich, CCM, Syracuse, etc.), you should notice some differences in the emphasis of the training and the balance of it. A BM degree tends to have more emphasis on the music training that anyone who gets a BM degree in music would have and also in vocal performance with a little less in the areas of dance and acting, whereas a BFA degree program usually tends to have somewhat of an equal balance (generally speaking, but varies from school to school) between voice, dance, and acting. A BFA degree is more of a THEATER degree and a BM degree is a MUSIC degree and therein lies the difference. </p>
<p>Does your D want to train more in voice than in theater or equally in voice, dance, and acting? Also, sometimes a candidate wants to go to a school that emphasizes their own strengths and other students may seek a program that will give them training to increase their weaker areas. Also, some believe that acting is very critical to a musical theater performer and that being a great singer is not enough (but this is open to debate). </p>
<p>I don’t think the differences between BM and BFA have anything to do with being able to teach. Conceivably, one may teach classes with either a BM or a BFA. And if you mean high school, then one would need teacher certification. If you mean to teach college, one would need a MM or an MFA.</p>
<p>Speaking of personal experience only, while my D is very very very into music and musical theater (and is also a musician, songwriter, and composer), she feels that the acting training is essential to being a performer on stage. </p>
<p>So, I suggest your D compares the curriculum between a BFA and a BM degree as there are differences in emphasis. Both turn out MT performers, however.</p>
<p>mom at home - I just wanted to chime in, because your post brought back some memories from when my D was comparing the Tisch and Steinhardt MT programs. She had friends in both, but we were so confused what the differences were, and had trouble understanding why NYU would offer what we thought was “the same thing” in two different schools. In the beginning MT was MT for us, and we did not really “get” the whole BM vs BFA thing.</p>
<p>Anyway, Soozie has done a thorough job explaining that the BM has more of a music & voice emphasis, and the BFA (in the MT Studio) offers training more equally in voice, dance and acting. My D really felt that she needed to develop her acting, while she wanted to continue with her dance and voice training, which is why she opted to apply to Tisch’s MT Studio, then still only available as CAP21. </p>
<p>Even with the upcoming changes, I thought that this way of approaching things might come in handy. I guess what I am saying is that if your D wants to focus more on, say voice training, perhaps Steinhardt might be a better fit. </p>
<p>It all really depends on what she is looking for :D.</p>
<p>Thanks so much MTgirlsmom and Soozie. Both post were helpful. I know she would prefer the all round acting, voice, and dance. She really doesn’t love Classical music although she has sang enough of it already to know she loves “show tunes” because she is the most happy there.</p>
<p>As a parent I am desiring for her to also graduate with a “fall back” career per say. She is an extremely talented pianist, singer songwriter, but like Soozie’s d I think she would prefer to stick with BFA MT. </p>
<p>“Conceivably, one may teach classes with either a BM or a BFA”</p>
<p>This is enough for me to know. If she doesn’t have a job performing, she will have skills to teach. I saw somewhere, I think it was University of Michigan, you can get a Minor in Vocal Performance with a Teaching Certificate.</p>
<p>Until she graduates and is on her own I hope to advise her with what she may need to know. This cc Board is fabulous for information. You can read for days and days and never read it all.</p>
<p>Mom at Home…</p>
<p>Just to be clear, a BFA or BM degree does not lead to teacher certification but I just meant that there was no difference between them when it comes to teaching and someone could conceivably teach some voice, dance, or acting classes with these degrees (just not certified teaching jobs). </p>
<p>Picking up on what MTgrlsmom wrote, I agree with her that it is a matter of what sort of training your D prefers. Both BM and BFA degrees in MT can lead to success as a MT performer. But like MTgrlsmom talked about…my own daughter had a lot of voice and dance training prior to college but had her least amount of training in acting. She continued with voice and dance in college but was happy to boost her acting training as well, rather than just resting on her strengths (which a BM degree may have been like). In fact, she chose to do three semesters in ETW studio (still doing MT throughout her four years of college). She believes acting is very important in her field. I recall in a recent audition for an Off Broadway play, the casting director complimented her on her acting and said it was obvious she had been well trained in acting at her college, which was nice to hear. My D never looked into BM degrees. She is also not that interested in classical singing, though has done it. She cares about her music training as again, she is a musician, songwriter, composer, musical director, arranger and so music is huge in her life. But if one wants to be on stage, it really helps to be a very good actor and have a background in THEATER, not just music. Besides, one can also audition for plays, not just musicals, widening the possible job opportunities. As far as fall back careers, it is good to have various skill sets. My own kid can and has worked as a musical director, accompanist, arranger, songwriter/composer, and teacher and so I feel that no matter what jobs she ends up doing, they will be in the arts.</p>
<p>This article about Kent Gash is EXTREMELY INTERESTING
I know that I can’t link something, so type into google search- Kent Gash NYU
The article is dated March 13, 2009 (my birthday) so this is very recent. It talks about how Gash is leaving the Alliance theater to run a new program in the Tisch Drama Department.
hmmm perhaps it is the new studio.</p>
<p>Another article about this specifically says that Gash is leaving to head up a new program geared especially towards musical theater performers.
Google search- Top gay theater talents leave Atlanta</p>
<p>I mentioned all this to my daughter, who just graduated from Tisch. At the Tisch graduation at Madison Square Garden, there was one musical number performed and you had to audition to be in it and she was in it (about 12-15 graduates sang). When I mentioned Kent Gash to her, she said he was the guy who directed the number she performed.</p>
<p>Kent Gash is a wonderfully talented actor, director, and artistic director, in addition to a composer and writer. He has a terrific reputation in the theatre world and tons of experience. All I can say is, that if Tisch has managed to hire him to run this new studio, well, that is quite the coup! Current and incoming students have absolutely nothing to worry about, and everything to cheer!, if this news is, indeed, true. :)</p>
<p>Gash does sound very, very impressive! Again, I have no doubt that the new studio will be top notch. But I think those of us with kids partway through the CAP curriculum/system just need a few questions answered about how the transition is going to happen.</p>
<p>This is a little off topic… but in response to post #32 </p>
<p>In terms of college teaching at most universities an MFA, DFA, or PhD is considered the “terminal degree” for a tenured track position in Theatre or Musical Theatre (unless the school is looking for a voice teacher or music teacher for Musical Theatre students in this case a DMA could be the “terminal degree”). Some conservatory type programs may hire people with BA, BFA, etc… degrees to teach in tenured track positions if they have SIGNIFICANT professional experience, but some will not make exceptions.</p>
<p>At most music schools the DMA is the terminal degree for professors who teach voice (and other instruments, or direct choral or band programs). Some Music Historians may have a PhD. The MM is the degree that is obtained before obtaining the DMA. An MM is not considered a “terminal” degree by most universities… but some conservatory type programs may hire people with MM degrees to teach in tenured track positions if they have SIGNIFICANT professional experience, but some will not make exceptions. </p>
<p>To teach in public elementary, middle, and high schools teacher certification is required. Many private schools do not require their teachers to be certified.</p>