<p>(I actually mischaracterized the data - there were 44 women, and several men, who were raped, not just 44 rapes. And for every rape, there were likely 7 or 8 sexual assaults. But only four people disciplined.)</p>
<p>I also wanted to add that they are no more “dishonest” (and probably less so) than police who don’t follow-up on criminal complaints of sexual assault (they just routinely assume it has to be a “he said, she said” thing, without talking to witnesses or checking evidence), or prosecutors who don’t prosecute because they don’t have the time or inclination.</p>
<p>EK, no, they are two completely different articles, though, yes AP and the same writer.</p>
<p>Washington Post had an editorial yesterday about a blogger who recently resigned, after making 2 errors in her job as an online aggregator. The editorial was in interesting explanation of how online stories get written and published.</p>
<p>I don’t like it. To me, this is exactly the same situation as if one Walmart employee raped (or was accused of raping) another Walmart employee and Walmart decided to take over the role of the Judge, Prosecution, and Executioner. We have a public court and criminal justice system for a reason. This is just plain wrong.</p>
<p>Vladenschutte, is it permissible for Walmart to fire a worker they suspect of misconduct?</p>
<p>Most states have At Will Employment.
Either employee or employer can terminate the employment contract at any time, with or without cause, with or without notice.</p>
<p>I didn’t see where the school restricted the “rapist” from attending another college, just from the college where his victim was attending.</p>
<p>The students are not being disciplined, suspended, or expelled for rape, but for contributing to an environment which is unconducive to learning for all students under Title IX. </p>
<p>If my alma mater encouraged the 44 students raped (I’m not counting the sexual assaults) to take their cases to the police last year, the police and prosecutors would have been entirely overwhelmed. Some cases would likely have been pursued; many wouldn’t. Those convicted would have looked very nostalgically at a time when they would simply have been disciplined by the college. Those not convicted would still likely face civil suits where the preponderance of evidence statute would have held, and the colleges would have been sued by the women they failed to protect (and usually have settled out-of-court, because the exposure is simply too great to defend).</p>
<p>I think the action now being taken is a great step forward.</p>
<p>The sexual assualts I suffered, starting when I was 12 years old pretty much derailed my life for a long time.
Attitudes like those on this thread didnt help.</p>
<p>“I think relaxing the standard of proof while increasing the consequences is not the way to deal with either of these concerns.”</p>
<p>The standard of proof is NOT for rape. It is for contributing to an environment which is unconducive to learning for all students under Title IX. All colleges have offenses which would not be charged criminally (starting with plagiarism and cheating), but which might be taken up by the college in its disciplinary capacity. No one has lowered any standard for rape or sexual assault. Title IX’s key languag, simply forbids sex-based discrimination that denies access to educational opportunity. </p>
<p>The courts have long ruled that colleges can apply their disciplinary standards virtually without regard to legal ones. What Title IX did, in fact, was guarantee due process for the accused, something that is NOT guaranteed, for example, in cases of plagiarism and cheating.</p>
Come now, mini. Don’t criticize schools for dishonesty and then make a nonsensical statement like this. Obviously, the students are being disciplined for rape or sexual assault–the DOJ’s own documents make this clear. Dressing it up in obfuscatory terms doesn’t change anything–any more than using a different standard of proof than the one they say they are using does.</p>
<p>emld4, please separate your first-hand experiences from facts reported in a newspaper article, and also keep allegations reported separate too.
Just because the claim of rape by Kristina is unsupported, no one here has said rapes don’t occur, or that they are of little sonsequence.</p>
<p>A student suspended for allegations(without proof) is the one that has suffered " an environment which is unconducive to learning for all students under Title IX. "</p>
<p>No one said all cases of rap are buyers remorse. No one said even the subject of the article has “buyers remorse” It was mentioned however, in the context that it does exist, and knowing that, some thinik something more concrete than a mere accusation be necessary before serious consequences are handed out.
Know there is a big difference between rape, and an allegation of rape.</p>
<p>“Dressing it up in obfuscatory terms doesn’t change anything–any more than using a different standard of proof than the one they say they are using does.”</p>
<p>Title IX is clear. It doesn’t mention rape or sexual assault once. You are the one who criticized the schools for dishonesty, not I. (I think that for the most part they use pretty good discretion, though clearly they have not investigated nearly enough cases. But that’s true of police and prosecutors as well.) </p>
<p>If the students feel they have been mistreated - such as the ones expelled from my alma mater - they can sue. All they’d have to show is that, by a preponderance of evidence, they were treated unfairly. The paucity of such suits speaks volumes. And, unlike before, under Title IX they are now guaranteed due process. (Wish that were true for cheating or plagiarism.)</p>
<p>By definition, simple “he said, she said” would not result in a “preponderance of evidence”. And if the rapist faces a penalty from the college/university, he can bring civil suit, where all he has to do is show that, by a preponderance of evidence, he was wronged.</p>
<p>The number of such suits is absolutely miniscule. The students are extremely lucky when the cases aren’t acted upon by prosecutors.</p>
<p>I know the county and the university created a Sexual Assault Response team that involved better training, and communication. Though I don’t advise at my old sorority, we encourage our sisters to work through the police department rather than just report it to the school. </p>
<p>Actually, I shouldn’t say common. I will respect those who attend the school a little more than that, but I remember similar behavior when I attended the school in the 80s and see too many blackout drunks when I go down to the race now as an ancient alum.</p>
<p>As I’ve said before, I simply don’t agree that a disciplinary hearing for a serious offense like rape or sexual assualt, with penalties like expulsion, should be treated as a civil dispute with a preponderance of the evidence standard. I think that this has been done because these cases are hard to prove. They’re hard to prove for multiple reasons, some of which have to do with sexist attitudes, and some of which have to do with simple evidentiary problems. Mixing those up creates bad law, in my opinion.</p>
<p>This is all interesting reading since I have dealt closely with a drug/ rape situation this past year. Legally, the boy has not been charged but the investigation is ongoing. I agree with the local university having a lot os influence over how a local small town police department handles certain situations. Though a rape kit was performed at the local hospital in a timely manner and with both uniformed police officers and a detective standing by, nobody bothered to draw the girls’ blood. Urine was taken but it has never gotten to the state lab and nobody seems to be sure where it is. The young man’s condom was also in evidence but answers are nearly impossible to get from anyone associated with the legal nd of the case. </p>
<p>Though he hasn’t been charged legally, a university Student Conduct Committee Hearing resulted in his expulsion from the university. His appeal was denied by administration. Things dragged a bit and he did get to finish the fall semester before TRANSFERRING to another university. his transcript was updated when his appeal was denied yet the University of Missouri at Columbia still has him enrolled as a full-time student. I guess it is one thing to worry about how sexual assaults/rapes are handled at your child’s university but another to figure out why another school would accept a transfer student expelled from another school for such a horrible reason. A Student Conduct Hearing is not a court of law, but one would guess that another university’s Admissions Department would investigate any disciplinary expulsion before admitting the student. Seems to me that there is a huge risk being taken by Mizzou. Few girls report because out of the cases that are reported, the punishment seldom is anywhere near harsh enough. I know that there is a lot of “he said, she said” but when the evidence is there, authorities too often overlook it. Remind your kids, that it takes less than a split second to have something put in a drink. A glance in another direction allows plenty of time for a would-be assailant who is keeping a close eye on somebody.</p>