<p>Agree with Marite’s post 20. When my D was a TA in her senior year, I believe she was every bit as knowledgeable and good at the job as her fellow TAs who were first year grad students. She planned sections with them (she was responsible for planning some and they divvied it up) and met with them and the professor weekly and she led two sections and had office hours. She got great feedback from students for her TAship. I don’t think there was much difference between herself and the first year grad students. In fact, she had already taken the course and they had not. Also, she did not get paid nearly what a grad student would be paid or any tuition waver. She got a small salary.</p>
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<p>I could not agree more with your statements. This said, I believe this agreement does not stop us from (probably) reaching different conclusions about the use of young TAs. It is because I see little difference between a senior (or junior) and a first year graduate student that I have such a negative opinion about the practice, although to a lesser degree in classes that lead to objective grading (such as math) and at the lowest levels of instruction. </p>
<p>In the end, and as you wrote, it all boils down to money. If the practice has much or any merit to the STUDENTS (on both sides of the TAship) is highly debatable. In my “perfect” education world, cheapened education and indentured servitude should be the exception and not the rule. Unfortunately, that is where the economic realities of our education system trump utopian (and naive) views. Fwiw, I am happy that high schoolers DO have multiple choices when weighing their options, and they can select the model that fits their aspiration the best. Having seen both models from the inside, I consider myself particularly lucky to have had a limited exposure to the cost-saving model. I do, however, understand and respect the opinions of people who have a different view based on their own experience.</p>
<p>Ideally, students should teach only for the experience rather than to earn money or save the university money. But life is not like that. Imagine the number of profs needed to teach introductory courses in math or science. A recitation section has between 18 to 25 students in each, and a class may have a couple of hundred students; even at a LAC, the number may go up to 50. Grading 50 P-sets per week would be pretty time-consuming; 100 or 200 probably impossible. That’s not mentioning leading the sections and responding to students’ queries (“I’m stuck at… Can you give me a hint?”).</p>
<p>I got two grad degrees and I was both a grad assistant and a TA. Teaching requires time to explain things to students, and this can run over the expected time. The TA position did not pay by the hour, but was a fixed amount. As a grad assistant, it was hourly work and all hours worked were paid for. I liked both positions, but if I had no interest in teaching, I would not do it. At the time, I considered teaching, and even was an adjunct prof after I finished, but ultimately, I did not teach.</p>
<p>TAing is not just good prep for teaching jobs; it is good prep for jobs that involve “explaining” (or the workplace equivalent of teaching).</p>
<p>20 hours a week in a graduate program is reasonable; that’s how much research I do a week for my program. And yeah, we say that we shouldn’t make decisions on finances, but really we have to. We’re already living on meager stipends and sometimes it’s worth it to take a little extra work on so we can avoid taking loans or being stressed out because we can’t afford the things we need, especially if that work is only going to look good on our CV anyway.</p>
<p>Personally I would take the TAship.</p>
<p>-More money
-If she does decide to continue to the Ph.D, and she might, she already has the TA experience
-She could get a job as an adjunct in the future if she has TA experience as a supplement to her salary, if she needs or wants one
-Most people do one on one learning with professors in graduate programs regardless of whether they have a formal research assistantship
-Informal relationships with professors are much easier to establish than informal teaching opportunities, and they are also much easier to document (letters of recommendation).
-A TAship will look impressive if she wants to continue in consulting because consultants do a lot of work with clients teaching them new ways to think and structure their businesses, and it teaches presentation skills, which are essentially in the business world</p>
<p>And I mean, we can say all we want about the abuse of TAs or whatever but the bottom line is if Ph.D candidates want academic jobs, we have to have teaching experience.</p>
<p>Marite - oh God, is there every a big difference between the workload of a senior undergrad and a new Ph.D student. I just finished my first year of a doctoral program. Biiiiiiig difference. But there is also a difference in the knowledge and experience level of a junior/senior undergrad and a first-year doctoral student, not to mention the different purposes of the degrees in the first place.</p>
<p>S was an undergraduate CA last semester (and had been in previous years). He won’t need to be teaching in his first year in his Ph.D. program, but had he taken up other offers, he would have. Many other programs to which he applied expected first year Ph.D. students to teach. The difference it would have made? Tuition waiver and a stipend worth four times what he made as an undergraduate CA. The difference in knowledge? Absolutely none that I can see. The difference in maturity? Being a couple of months older?<br>
As for the workload, S has been taking graduate courses for the last two years; he knows what the workload is like. He did not need the money, by the way; but he acceded to his prof’s request that he be CA in an advanced course that S had never taken before.
As for the purpose of a BA and a Ph.D, I do get that they are different degrees (I have both). Duh.</p>
<p>D has decided against the TA offer – she found out yesterday that it would involve **5 **sections, 30 students in each (more than she had initially thought) and felt that would really overextend her. She needs to focus on her own academics, especially after being out of school for three years. She will consider being a TA in later semesters, however, depending on how things go.</p>
<p>So for the fall she will be a 10/hour/week grad assistant for a prof in her department.</p>
<p>Thanks SO much for all the very helpful responses. :)</p>
<p>That seems like an appropriate choice to me. That is a LOT of students and a LOT of sections and would definitely use up a LOT of her time. If the money and experience are not crucial for her, it doesn’t seem like the best idea but she has options for future semesters. And meanwhile, she will have the experiences and money from the grad assistant position. She has not even experienced the program yet to know what would feel right for her or not and so this seems like the best way to ease into it and then see.</p>
<p>Jyber:</p>
<p>A very good and very easy decision. I did not know that sections could be as large as 30 and that TAs could be responsible for as many as 5! I would stay away in future semesters as well, especially since your D does not really need the money.
This sounds to me like pretty monstrous exploitation.</p>
<p>^ Yeah, I concur. An individual she works with had done it a few years ago with three sections as TA – yet hers would have been five. Perhaps it is budget-cutting. No wonder there was a late opening – perhaps it is two positions combined into one! That is what sent her running in the other direction.</p>
<p>Yeah, the assistantship is looking like a much better deal.</p>
<p>Good heavens. That is isn’t TA-ing – that’s offloading the expense and workload for an adjunct or two onto a grad student! Absolutely agree she should run and not look back.</p>
<p>Good choice - the position sounds like a great big time sink… with 150 kids, keeping it to 20 hours would be incredibly difficult. </p>
<p>I can hear it now … “Just one more question”</p>
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I know my earlier notes leaned more toward TAing being a good experience, but this particular TA position sounds miserable - I agree - She made the right decision!</p>
<p>Good decision. Being a TA certainly varies by school. When my S was a TA this year, he helped with organization only. Being a section leader for 30 kids, holding office hours would be enough. For 150 kids, the demand would certainly have exceeded 20 hours.</p>