To continue IB or not? Canadian Student applying international..(US)

Student Lounge International Students
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<p>Alright to start it off, I'm a Canadian currently in grade 11 and in IB year one. I'll be doing my SAT II this may (Math II, French, Chem) and SAT I in June. </p>

<p>I'm doing my IB exam in Math SL and French SL in May. I'm predicted a 7 in Math and 6 in French (most likely can get 7) and am ranked third in IB in my school based on my other grades. My avg in gr 11 is currently 91% (before translation) and will become 95% after translation (assuming I get both 7s).</p>

<p>Now I applied to drop out of IB after year 1 because my school doesn't allow IB students to take all 3 sciences (Chem, Physics and Biology) together unless one of them is done in summer school or night school. I wanted to either major in engineering or life science, so I need all 3 sciences. </p>

<p>So I took Chem HL and Physics SL in IB. I already did my grade 11 biology in summer school but I can't do my grade 12 this summer as I'm going on an month long exchange program to Quebec. However, after speaking with my coordinator, I can now take grade 12 biology in a spare period but it'll coincide with my IB exams in year 2 (May 2010) and was recommended against doing it. I think only one other student in the last 5 years has done that and she got a 44/45 anyway. I'm not sure if it is wise to biology while I have my IB exams going on; which presents itself as a big problem.</p>

<p>And now here is my real question..How much consideration do American universities (notably the ivy's) place on IB? Will it be possible to just apply with my SAT I & IIs along with my grades? My school is ranked top 10 if that makes any difference.</p>

<p>I know I haven't taken my SATs yet, so I don't know my scores but I must decide if I'm continuing IB by the end of the month.</p>

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<p>US unis in general care if you have taken the most challenging academic program in high school (it’s a box your rec-writer checks) which would be the IBDP at your school, and according to the statistics at my school, not doing the Diploma when it is an option, hurts.</p>

<p>For US universities you do not need all 3 sciences; I know people who have got into excellent engineering schools with A Levels (which we will use as equivalents to IB HLs for this discussion) in only two sciences and Maths, for example, or only one science HL. Don’t create more stress for yourself by doing Biology during IB exams. If you need three sciences for Canadian schools then fair enough, but if you just want to be at the US then don’t bother - IB2 is hectic enough, trust me (:</p>

<p>Have fun in Quebec :D</p>

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<p>^ I agree to Agneisse’s point. You DO NOT NEED ALL 3 sciences. In fact, they would be looking at Math HL and your main target science subject more. And of course, your overall rigor of your IB package</p>

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<p>The problem is, the Canadian Universities are going to be my safeties whereas I’ll try for the unis in the top 20 the States, where nothing is guaranteed. In Canada, there are requirements for each program and some programs require or strongly recommend me to have 3 sciences. For example, McMaster’s Health Sci (one of the best ‘premed’ programs) wants a biology + chem, whereas Mcgill’s Life Science recommends all 3 subjects. Waterloo’s engineering programs require physics + chem et cetera. I still haven’t decided on what major I want to go in, so I tried to go broad with my sciences which is hurting me now.</p>

<p>The IB program at my school also sucks. We aren’t offered Math HL. We’re restricted to taking English HL, Chem HL, and either Eco HL or Hist HL. Then we have to choose between taking either Bio SL or Physics SL. I already chose Physics SL, so if I wanted to pursue a lifesci program here, I would have to take a biology on my own. </p>

<p>Also our marking schemes for IB aren’t that good. Our teachers tend to mark on the low-end of the scale. Canadian universities send their conditional offers based on predicted marks. One of the best examples I can think of was when one guy was predicted a 35. He was rejected from Mac’s Health Sci (extremely competitive), but ended up with a 44 after IB exams. Didn’t matter that he got a 44 as it was too late to try to resend his application and he was forced into another program. If do continue IB, I’m not sure if something similar will happen to me.</p>

<p>Which brings me to a catch-22, do I do my 3 sciences to ensure I have a great chance at Canadian universities or continue IB, risk my chance in Canadian unis but have a better shot at American unis.</p>

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<p>Are you taking a full IB Diploma or only certificates? If you are only taking certificates, then try and keep the HL courses, as US colleges will often give advanced standing or credit for them. You would also need to see if your gc would say you are taking the most rigorous course without taking IB…</p>

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<p><em>IF</em> you did not do the Diploma, will you have the chance to do APs/select certificates or are you wholly relegated to ‘regular’ classes designed for people who couldn’t cut it in the IB? (stereotype of regular stream in the US is, well…) Because if you can do AP classes instead then that’s very good too and arguably better (generally US unis give more credit for AP than IB). But if you drop out of IB <em>entirely</em> and take all regular classes then you’re not going to swing too hot with top US unis. If HL Maths wasn’t offered then definitely explain it to all engineering programs you apply to; I am of the opinion that including the note shows initiative, potentially adds brownie points and is unlikely to hurt.</p>

<p>It may be worth thinking about what you really want to do in the future, and especially if you can still go to medical school with an engineering degree (thus eliminating the need for high school biology) if you so choose. US unis will also want to see good school marks (I’m not sure if you get classroom grades separate from predicted grades or just the latter) so if you aren’t going to be predicted good marks for the IB, then it makes little sense to do it <em>for the sake of</em> applying to US unis if you’re going to be given less-than-stellar predicted marks to apply with (unless you want to apply during a gap year after doing very well on the IB).</p>

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<p>yeah, you really don’t need all 3 sciences.</p>

<p>in retrospect, you should have opted to take bio instead of physics.</p>

<p>tough luck</p>

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<p>Yeah, I should have taken biology in IB and physics in summer school…but what can I do now anyway? -shrug- I was also offered AP courses in another school back in grade 9 as I was gifted, but I declined and went IB instead. In retrospect, it wasn’t that smart of a choice. Ergo, now I can’t take AP as that would require me to move to another school as my current school doesn’t offer it.</p>

<p>I’m not sure if I can possibly take an certificates, other than the math and french that I have already earned. (I’ll speak to my coordinator tomorrow.) Generally, I don’t think anyone in the last 4-5 years that we’ve had IB has ever taken just the certificate courses in year 2, as our administration tends to discourage that and force us to take the diploma or nothing. But of course, I’ll try to convince my coordinator to give me that option tomorrow. </p>

<p>IF I do a certificate, should I just do Chem HL, Eng HL (or should I switch this to Hist HL?), Physics SL, and then regular high school biology? If I just take 2 HLs instead of 3, I have more than enough time to take regular biology plus I don’t have to do my EE or CAS which makes everything less stressful.</p>

<p>Regarding school marks, we get a normal percentage grade and then a predicted. When we get our final IB marks, our percentage grade gets translated (or “replaced”) based on a range (6 is from 90-95 and 7 is from 96-100). For example, currently in my Advanced Functions & Calculus courses (2 maths), I received a 94 and 95 respectively as my percentage grades. Now if I get a 7 in Math SL this May, both courses are replaced with a mark of 99 or 100 (depending on my class rank and # of students who receive a 7). </p>

<p>However, that was only maths. In English, if I do decide to stay or do a certificate, I will most likely get a mid 80 percentage and in chemistry a low 90 before translation. I will most likely be predicted only a 5 or 6, but will have a strong chance of getting a 6 and 7 as we are usually predicted one mark lower. Translation will however only occur in the summer after IB exams (2010), which will be too late. However, if I do decide to do the regular stream, I can most likely get a low 90 in english and a mid to high 90 in chem due to it being generally easier and less stressful. </p>

<p>So what constitutes as an excellent mark? I’d like to say we’d get marked harder, as generally, the highest averages in our school are only 93-94%, but I’d like some input.</p>

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<p>UPDATE:
So I talked to my coordinator and she said that my school doesn’t offer individual certificates. It is either I do it or not. However, I managed to convince her to wait until my SAT results to decide if I’ll continue or not. </p>

<p>IF I do continue, I’ll have to take biology in my spare to ensure I get a chance at a lifesci program here in Canada and I’m not sure if that will be suicide or close to. My schedule would be english hl, chem hl, history hl, physics sl and then regular biology attached to it. </p>

<p>I talked to my other teachers and asked what they would give me for a predicted. Would a 36-38 predicted grade (out of 42, so not including my EE and TOK paper) be a competitive enough mark? My actual would probably end up anywhere between 38-40 (out of 42).</p>

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<p>As a rule, the better the US school, and the more international applicants that it sees, the better that the school understands the IB. The top schools do understand how to interpret the IB and would likely look unfavourably on your choosing not to do the test. The obvious inference is that there was a really good reason why you chose not to sit the test, and that the reason is most likely because your scores would be very disappointing. </p>

<p>Agneisse is right, that the schools expect you to do the most challenging course work available to you, and that really does mean going for the IB. It is also right that the top US universities do not require 3 sciences. Even at those who suggest it (eg MIT), they do not require it.</p>

<p>Therefore the answer to your original question, do I do the test if I want to get into a top US school, then the answer has to be yes. If that screws over your chances of getting into a Canadian university, then you do have a real problem, that nobody on this board can actually help you with. Though if you kill yourself to get the extra science in, and in doing so, screw over all of your grades, then that would really suck.</p>

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<p>Well, I’m an Canadian IB student as well. However, I had never given any thought to bio and premed programs.</p>

<p>I am strongly against dropping out of IB.
For American schools, IB is almost a necessity, since it shows the rigor of your courseload. For Canadian schools, IB marks get translated VERY favorably. With mostly 6s and 7s, you should be able to get into any program at any Canadian university. I have friends with 34/45 IB predicted totals that got into McMaster Life Sci.</p>

<p>Plus, you learn a lot more in IB. I wouldn’t pass up IB if it were offered. I would rather not take bio at all, but that is my personal feeling. But IB is a privilege not to be passed up.</p>

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<p>My only dilemma with taking IB is that I need biology IF I stay in Canada and want to pursue a life science program (as some schools only want Biology and Chemistry - I have Chem and Physics), meaning I would definitely have to take my last science. </p>

<p>I guess I’ll wait for my SAT scores before deciding if I’ll definitely apply to the US for schools. As I already requested my transfer out of the program, I am technically out (so I could reserve courses in the regular stream). BUT my coordinator will hold my spot in IB for 2 months (until the end of the school year) to allow me to come back in if I choose to.</p>

<p>Zephyr, if you don’t mind me asking…what were your SAT I/II & IB scores and what schools were you accepted and for what? I just want something to compare to…</p>

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<p>err, okay. I guess I’ll show off.</p>

<p>SAT I: 2380
SAT II: 800s on math II, phys, chem, chinese, 740 french
IB: 7+ HL math, 7+ HL phys, 7 HL chem, 7 SL econ, 6+ SL french, 6 SL english, EE+ToK: 3, total: 43/45
Accepted: Columbia, Berkeley, Waterloo, U of T
Rejected: Harvard, Princeton, MIT, Stanford :(</p>

<p>Not really a good comparison since I wasn’t considering premed. A lot of my friends are though, and they all got into the program of their choice with 32-40 IB totals.</p>

<p>hmm, I see how you need bio for safeties in Canada now. It would be inconsiderate of me to suggest just forgetting about premed, but I will say that you would probably want to decide on premed or engineering sometime soon anyhow.</p>

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<p>May I ask what you’re pursuing? </p>

<p>Anyways. I think I’m leaning towards premed…which means I made a really bad decision when I chose to do Physics SL instead of Bio SL (I wish we were offered Math HL + another HL science instead of forcing English HL + Hist HL on us). Also wished I took AP instead of IB. But alas, it’s too late to correct my mistake(s). </p>

<p>I’m not really worried about Canadian schools though, as my top 6 will average out in the mid 90s. The only issue is my chance at American schools…but guess I’ll play the waiting game for my SAT scores…</p>

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<p>IB in the US, particularly on the West Coast, is a joke. The program is not more rigorous, just more time-consuming. The big selling point of IB is that creativity counts-haha. If you want to see the most boring students, go to the IB classes. The students in IB who have a sense of humor are “B” or “C” students. They have a life and don’t study 24/7. The “A” students are the ones no one wants to hang around. </p>

<p>Like the OP, my school’s IB program was very limiting in sciences and math. I dropped after junior year because I needed more and better science courses and much less history and English. IB history is absurd. Our program grades “notes” and these marks are a major component to our grade. Staying up late, sometimes until 3 or 4 am, writing notes for history is ridiculous. These two IB courses have destroyed a number of students chances of getting into their college of choice.</p>

<p>I also don’t understand the IB Diploma. These results are not available until after you have been admitted. Most of the IB students at my school have not been tested in any subject, either standard or higher level until May their senior year. At least with
AP you are tested and proven long before your second semester senior year. Also, the majority of US colleges give credit for AP test scores–not the same with IB.</p>

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<p>^I totally disagree. Perhaps this is IB at your school. But in general, IB is highly regarded, sometimes more so than AP since AP emphasizes memory while IB insists on understanding (and a certain amount of bs, which is a necessary skill as well). I have never heard of marks based on notes in IB, so that seems more like an aberration rather than the norm.</p>

<p>

Also untrue in most cases.</p>

<p>I’m going comp sci/engineering.</p>

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<p>@zephyravatar:</p>

<p>Are you saying that most colleges don’t give credit for AP exams? I’ve looked at AP and IB course equivalency charts for Stanford, ivy league schools, and other schools. Quite a few do not give credit for IB exams such as foreign language or TOK. However, credit is given for almost all AP exams depending on the score you receive.</p>

<p>I am positive that my school’s IB program is an aberration. Unfortunately, notes for history at all levels, even pre-IB, are a major component of our grade. The other major component is simulations–including students dressing up as Hitler and Mussolini with the complementary symbolism associated with Nazism and fascism, regardless of the insult to some students.</p>

<p>I am also going into engineering and I found, at least at my high school, IB lacks in science and math. I am happy that your experiences were more positive.</p>

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<p>I’m saying credit is given for most IB courses as well. Not ToK of course, that’s not a full course. But with a certain grade (usually 5 or 6) you get credit for your IB courses. Some universities may only give credit for IB HL courses, admittedly.</p>

<p>It really depends on the school then. And I thought IB was a global standard lol.</p>

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<p>Actually, when I was looking at the AP/IB course equivalency charts, most universities, not some, give credit only for the HL exams. The only university I know of that gives credit for both SL and HL is Virginia Tech.</p>

<p>In addition, not all IB programs are the same throughout the world. From your experiences, as well as others on this thread, their IB program was rigorous, challenging, and rewarding. Unfortunately, school districts, such as mine, with a lot of budget constraints have difficulty in providing the IB program as it was intended. IB is an incredibly expensive program for high school.</p>

<p>Good luck in your future in engineering/comp sci.</p>

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<p>Math SL and Physics SL are not sufficient for a competitive application to an engineering course in the UK; both Math HL and Physics HL are required. I don’t know if they would be acceptable in Canada though.</p>