How much does a “W” (or two), in the student’s major, impact grad school admissions? Anyone have any idea?
It depends of course.
What’s the alternative to a W- a C? and will the student have to take the course again- and what’s the college’s policy on that? And what makes the student think he/she will do better next time around? Why not an incomplete and then make up the work over the summer?
And most important- what does the advisor say?
Advisor only knows about graduation requirements - knows nothing about grad school. Incomplete not an option.
And the alternative would potentially be (a) a really miserable semester and/or (b) crappy grades across the board as a result of simply trying to do too many credit hours.
What kind of grad school? I’d be surprised if a departmental advisor (usually a professor with many years advising students) doesn’t know what the top grad programs look for in that field.
If it’s a professional program (MBA, MSW or whatever) than the college will have an advisor (usually in career services, not in the academic department) who handles grad school, fellowship applications, etc.
I’d start there.
But the student will need to take the course eventually, right??? Some colleges will allow the student to replace the W once the course is taken and passed…
See if this is the college policy on W’s. Again, the grad school advisor will know the policy.
Advice I heard from older relatives with experience as academics and older relatives in the position to hire in firms requiring undergrad transcripts is to avoid taking a W unless it can’t be avoided due to something understandably drastic like a medical emergency.
Absent a reasonable explanation, the W will be viewed nearly as badly as an F by most so the consensus is to either drop the course before the deadline when a W will be permanent or take an incomplete and complete the requirements within the time period specified by the Prof and/or registrar.
The time period specified is usually a few weeks to a month into the following semester/quarter though this varies by Prof and college academic/registration policies. .
Depending on whether the course fulfills a major/core requirement or not and depending on the college, not always.
Also, even if college policies replace Ws with grades, the Ws may still factor negatively with some professional grad schools which calculate GPAs based on ALL undergrad courses attempted* leading up to the first bachelors degree…whether the failing/W grade was replaced or not**.
- Yes, this includes college courses taken as a Dual-enrollment HS student and summer courses taken at other colleges as one is REQUIRED to submit all transcripts of all undergrad courses attempted to some professional grad school application services.
** In this scenario, the F/W grade will be averaged in with the replacement grade rather than being left out of the professional grad school GPA calculations altogether.
Also if there is any Federal financial aid involved such as a Pell Grant you may run into trouble when taking the course a second time around. Best to talk with an academic advisor.
One or two Ws over the entire four years, by itself, does not matter. Graduate school admission committee understands that things happened.
My kid had a W from undergrad school. She took the course the following semester. School showed both the W and her grade on her transcript.
She got accepted to grad school.
She was asked at one interview. Her W was because she was in the hospital for over a week. Easy to explain why she had to drop a course .
Really, a W is irrelevant. I have a number of them on my transcript. Easily explained away (not that anyone in the universe has ever asked). You were thinking about taking course X and decided that was not the direction you wanted to go. That’s what college is for - exploring what interests you and what does not. You can’t take every single course the college offers. What if you had to explain why you did not take History 302? Obviously, no one expects that you take every course. If you start something and then drop, it just says that you decided that was not where you wanted to be going.
I don’t think a couple of Ws will make a difference. Especially if one does well when one retakes the class later on.
In this situation, the student is not a slouch, and not dropping below full-time - it’s simply a case of trying to do significantly more credit hours than the typical full-time course load. The dropped course is in the major - but an elective, not a required course.
And, yes, @prof2dad, it would be one or two W’s over the entire four years.
So, the answer is either (a) “don’t worry about it” or (b) “don’t do it unless it’s a medical emergency.” And that’s probably an accurate reflection of what the real world response would be - it all depends on who’s reading the transcript!
I know for law school admissions if it is just a W and the grade is considered non punitive, it is not factored into your LSDAS gpa.
If the grade is a WU (unofficial withdrawal) or WF (withdrawal failing) then it would be treated as an F or failing grade.
Your child’s experience is a good example of having a reasonable explanation graduate admission/hiring committees would take into account and be very understanding.
This scenario may be a bit more iffy depending on who’s reading the transcript on the graduate admission committee and the advising style* of the potential grad adviser.
Some may view the above very positively because your child was willing to challenge herself, even if it was to the point of being a bit over-extended.
However, others may have serious questions about your child’s judgment in terms of assessing how much work she could reasonably take on. Something which could be an issue considering graduate programs, especially PhD programs require much more independence in this very area and taking on far more than one can handle is one reason why some grad students end up crashing and burning or at the very least cause more headaches than the potential advisor/department may want to deal with from PhD students. Especially considering this is one area some Profs expect PhD students to handle without them doing much/any handholding.
- The ones with the more "hands-off"/expect grad students to be able to handle this area themselves with little/no handholding are likely to be ones who are likely to have more issues with this than those who are more "hands-on".
I am in the “don’t worry about it” camp. Remember, the people reviewing applications, resumes and transcripts were once students themselves, and may have dropped a class or two themselves. Your s is human. He bit off a bit too much and is choosing to rectify the situation. This is good judgment. Its fine.
No need to worry about it.
Whats the major?
Don’t worry - better one W then a full semester of poor grades. Lots of kids have W’s on their transcript - the student had too much on their plate and did the mature thing and dropped a class to manage their workload. A good life lesson which shows good decision making - nothing to be penalized for (by either a future employer or grad school admissions person). SInce they are still full-time for the semester, shouldn’t have any other consequences.
A true W is usually not counted at all in the student’s GPA (no credits and no grade).
My S had one W in college and he got into a top grad school in his field. Of course it will depend on the grad school, the discipline etc. My S came down with mono and couldn’t keep up with all 5 classes when he was sleeping 16+ hours/day and he dropped the one that was hardest to keep up with. He was never questioned about the W in his grad applications. So I would say one W is better than a semester of bad grades, but you don’t want a transcript that is filled with W’s so schedule yourself more judiciously going forward.
W’s are not scars carved into your forehead. W’s happen for lots of reasons, including health, course overload, changes in work situation, etc. I did grad admissions and scholarship awards for several years and we were interested in courses completed, grades earned. W’s meant nothing. Some colleges used to distinguish between W-P (withdraw while performance was passing, i.e., C or better) and other W’s. But basically I would say they mean nothing. (I had 1 W on my record – dropped an advanced Russian language course – and got into every professional and grad school I applied to, including a Russian studies program.)
Focus on building a good record of accomplishments. W’s are not failures. They’re just not accomplishments, and really don’t matter.
Is the alternative to taking the (non-punitive?) W getting a D or F?
If so, this being a required course for the major, then they’re going to have to retake the class anyway. A W followed by an A in the class will look better than a D/F followed by an A, at least for the GPA. In grad school apps, they can talk about how they were mature enough to realize that they had bitten off more than they could chew that term to drop and give it their all later (assuming that the poor grade isn’t a result of something more excusable like illness).
If it’ll be a punitive W/WF, which will count the same as an F in GPA calculation, they should speak with the professor and see if they can do anything to get a D or even a C, like acing the final exam.