to go out of state or not?

Parents Forum
1

<p>I'm a parent of a class of 2007er...we live in California and I am struggling within myself about whether or not to consider out of state schools.</p>

<p>In the past year that we've been talking about colleges, d has never expressed wanting to go out of state, other than a passing interest or curiosity about U Miami. Like many so cal kids, she is perfectly content here! what's not to like? unlike me at her age, when I was living in upstate NY, she has no burning desire to get as far away as possible from home, parents, and six months of bad sledding.</p>

<p>I really have no problem with that. We are very close and all other things being equal, I would love to have her not too far away, to be able to connect with her when possible/appropriate. We have had some trauma in our family over her high school years (life-threatening illness for me, divorce for both her dad and I who had each remarried, emotional dislocation with that, several moves, etc,etc), but now things are seeming to settle down, and we are all doing much better. So I want her to be around to enjoy some of the stability that has been lacking over the past 4 years...</p>

<p>She did spend 2 weeks at debate camp at UCB over the summer, and loved the atmosphere there. We toured MANY colleges in the bay area, for about a week, also up to Humboldt, and down to CAl POly SLO. After the first 3-4, she wanted to go home, since she'd been away for 2 weeks and just wanted to see friends, but I was determined to show her another area/lifestyle whatever.</p>

<p>I think within CA we have an excellent selection of colleges in her reach that she likes, that cover her areas of interest, from the state schools, to the UC's to the LAC's, such as Claremont McKenna, Occidental and USD. These cover a range of price tags, from quite affordable to quite expensive. </p>

<p>Here's the rub: I started looking for expanded options out of state for merit money. Due to my previous health problems, finances are a concern, although I may not qualify for need aid.( Had to sell our house in divorce, and proceeds are in the bank until I'm back at work and ready/able to buy a condo or something; renting now). </p>

<p>Now our college list is now getting longer and longer, instead of getting shorter! AARRGGHH!!! The thing has a life of its own...the college list that ate San Diego, or something...</p>

<p>I don't quite know how to read her on this...she loves to travel, generally, and fantasizes about traveling the world doing marine biology research or working for environmental or humanitarian causes. But again, SHE never initiated any discussion about out of state schools, other than U Miami. She's an ocean/water person and I worry that she'll be unhappy away from the ocean and beach.</p>

<p>I worry that if I pursue/encourage/suggest the out of states 1) she will be unhappy and blame me! 2) I'll be unhappy and blame myself. 3) then there are issues too about internships and developing ties in the new area and then not coming back...which is basically what I did. Or trying to come back here, but not having good local connections as far as work or grad school. 4) Well, I must admit too that when I went 3000 miles away from home to school I was really out on a limb in many ways without family support, and got into some pretty difficult situations as a result...things didn't go entirely smoothly, lets say...thankfully she's more stable than I was, and it's no longer the 60's!</p>

<p>So there are plenty of schools in state that meet our needs...the only thing the OOS can add is more merit money options</p>

<p>I feel like I'm selling her down the river if we send her to say Miami or a college in Maine or Hawaii....just because they offer the biggest scholarship..</p>

<p>anyone else been through this?</p>

2

<p>Well, my honest reaction to your post is that IMO there is too much "we" and "our" and not enough "she" and "her". This will be her life and her college experience.</p>

<p>If financial considerations require or strongly suggest OOS (which seems doubtful, as you suggest) then discuss that frankly with her. Otherwise, IMHO follow her lead and let her stay instate in peace, if that is her choice.</p>

3

<p>Nothing wrong with staying instate- CA has many choices; the climate is mild, making many other states unappealing probably; distances to schools OOs worth applying to another consideration. Agree with ADad about the she/her decisions - she gets to choose, not you-you may have veto power but you cannot force her to go anywhere. Key phrase "follow her lead". Don't worry too much about her finding the perfect school or best aid package, all things considered (travel costs etc.) instate may be just as affordable. Our son ended up instate- after rejections at his only other two school choices; looking back at his application process I think he would have put more effort into those if he really wanted either of them or others. It is good to be aware of options at this point, but don't obsess over them and make sure your daughter is in charge, not you.</p>

4

<p>CA has a very distinct culture, which is very different outside of the state. It might not be a bad idea for her to explore options outside of CA. That doesnt mean she has to go cross country, but it never hurts to look.</p>

5

<p>Berkeley.</p>

<p>How I would love to be a California resident...</p>

<p>Doh!</p>

6

<p>Wecandothis: if your D isn't really pushing to go far away, and there aren't any clear merit money choices staring at you, why not stick with your excellent Cal choices? You could suggest some LAC choices that are in line with her interests but it seems like you have so many choices within your state that it might be best for her. Since she has been through a lot in her high school years, it could be a good idea not to be too far away for college.</p>

7

<p>Many of my friends told their children that they were to stay in New England - plenty of good colleges here. No need to roam. I vowed not to do that. I would have prefered that she go to school close to home but in the end felt it had to be her decision. I didn't want to hear sometime in the future "I wanted to go to X but you wouldn't let me!" Could she also complain that I didn't stop her? Yes, but this is one of things that they have to own. When she was trying to decide which school to chose, she was worried about making her choice and having regrets. Life is full of regrets. You make the best choice you can given the information you have, then move on. Sometimes our choices are terrible mistakes (crissyp's D) but we deal with them and learn. Sometimes all they need to know is that you will support them. She made decide to stay instate, just because she knows that you'll support her if she wants to go OOS.</p>

8

<p>Well, you can tell from my moniker that I think the in-state options are excellent ones. Like you, I live in the San Diego area and have one D attending UCSD (the other - UCLA). It was really the only college she wanted to attend and turned down Berkeley and others for it. She lived on campus the first couple of years and now lives off-campus close to it. She has as much privacy and l'iving on her own' experience there as she would attending OOS. She also has convenience though since we're close. I think we're fortunate in California to have so many excellent state colleges to choose from that are relatively affordable.</p>

<p>If she's interested in Marine Bio, UCSD is an excellent choice since it's one of the top science schools and has the asset of Scripps Institute of Oceanography. Some other UCs (UCSB, UCSC) are strong in marine bio as well.</p>

<p>If she's at the top-end academically, it's possible she could get a merit scholarship from a UC which pays all tuition (there's a lot of competition though). If money is a real problem and scholarships/aid don't cover the costs adequately for you, another option is to attend UCSD or SDSU and live at home and commute. It's not as good as living on campus IMO but if it's necessary, it's doable - many do this. I have a colleague putting 5 kids through college (not all at once) and he's managing it by having them all go to SDSU and commuting. I don't know much about the merit scholarships at the CalStates since my Ds didn't apply at any. I think considering some privates since they might offer good merit aid packages makes good sense. </p>

<p>OOS has benefits and drawbacks depending on the individual. When considering OOS, make sure you think about all of the true costs including travel. Consider the issue of less frequent visits with each other.</p>

9

<p>Thanks so much for the help- I do think the advice to "follow her lead" is very good, and I'd like to, but so far she doesn't seem too inclined to actually lead anywhere...should I still let her do that, and risk ending up with an "OK" choice more or less by default, or should I continue helping build the list, and researching to uncover a "great" choice? My thought was to get the list built, and then turn most of the application process over to her, except for the financial stuff, of course.</p>

<p>I guess it's true that maybe she would be putting more effort into turning up something different than "default" (meaning the obvious in-state choices), if that's what she really wanted. </p>

<p>Part of the issue is that my timetable for attending to all this is different than hers...several of the schools she is interested in have early action, which I believe can net more merit money than RD. But EA means we need to get on those apps "yesterday"...and apparently none of her friends are doing any EA's, so the issue of what colleges to apply to doesn't really have her full attention yet. </p>

<p>I agree, she probably can't go wrong staying in CA...there's also the possibility of a CalGrant if I can qualify; I believe that's around 10 K. And little or no travel costs...</p>

<p>and yet, on the other hand, of course I know there are so many excellent and interesting schools outside of CA that she may be missing out on. Some of the out of staters we've got on the long list at this point are Boston U, U Miami, U Washington, American U, U Delaware, U Colorado (Boulder), Whitman, U Hawaii (Manoa), one in Seattle, and Vassar (that one's a reach, and i know they don't even do merit aid, just a fascinating school)</p>

<p>Its an intriguing question, isn't it: how much of this process should they do, and how much should we do? From my considerable lurking on these boards, I see many different ways to balance that equation. I wish she would do more, but I'm a little afraid to let her "fail" if I leave too much up to her. She gets no help from the GC or teachers at school or her dad, so I'm "IT".</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>I wish I could relax and not worry, but that's more easily said than done!</p>

10

<p>I think you need to be involved and need to provide some guidance. You should also discuss some issues up front - especially the finance side. She may need to realize that it's not simply a matter of picking the favorite college - the actual college cost depending on finAid and other costs may make a difference of wether she can attend or not. You don't want a disappointed kid.</p>

<p>I don't thinks it's that unusual for a kid to not be highly engaged on the college subject while still in HS. Some (such as the ones on CC) are and some aren't. There are some kids who are simply enjoying HS life too much and attending college is more than a few days away so they don't have their mind into it. It's important though at some point that she 'buys into' the college since she'll be the one living it for 4 or so years.</p>

11

<p>It isn't unusual for a kid not to be highly engaged and I have a son who is a big procrastinator BUT...where the Mom feels that financially EA applications may help, she may have to lay down some deadlines. That approach worked for us...I did not fill out applications, I did not have a hand in the actual application process but I did say you need to get this part done by this date. Sort of like I was the teacher and the applications were an assignment.<br>
That said, I know parents who actually did everything but the essays for their kids which I DO NOT feel is the right approach.<br>
Remember in the process, you are not the one going to college, the choices are not going to be yours since you are not the one living with those choices later.
We are in CA and my son went to school on the East Coast. Not my choice-his. Now I get the sleepless nights wondering what he is doing and hoping he is staying safe out there.</p>

12

<p>Distinct issues.</p>

<p>If a child just is not progressing at all, providing no lead, then IMO the parent has every right and duty to try to push her along. But that pushing would be limited IMO to something like making sure 1. she has a reasonable and appropriate list that she is comfortable with, including at least one safety that she would be happy attending, 2. she understands relevant financial issues 3. she has the application process under control. </p>

<p>That would not include (IMHO) proposing major changes in, or major additions to, her college list.</p>

<p>If she is not progressing, the parent also IMO should ask him/herself why. Possibly, and I emphasize possibly, the child is putting it off because he/she is uncomfortable with the way the parent is handling the process. The parent IMO has to be both perceptive and honest with him/herself here.</p>

<p>For example, in your case schools like Whitman, Vassar, Colorado, American seem odd at first glance if she loves the ocean. On the other hand, U Miami seems like a great idea--on the ocean and she has expressed an interest in it.</p>

<p>So, the process is both hard and delicate, and it is difficult to know if one is handling it just right for one's particular child. IMO, though, err on the side of 1. simply being sure that she has a safety that she would be happy attending, 2. that the financials will be manageable, and 3. that she gets stuff done on time. Other than that, IMO stand back and let her decide.</p>

13

<p>I agree with ebeeee and ADad in that the student needs to actually do the applications themselves although I think it's okay for a parent to review them just to check for accuracy. The essays of course, s/b done completely by the student. The adcoms state they can generally tell whether the student really wrote the essay or the parent or someone else.</p>

<p>The parent needs to set the bounds that pertain to that family which generally would include fnancial aspects and could even include geographical boundaries depending on circumstances. It's also important that the parent ensure the student has some safeties but also ensure that the student have some higher-level colleges on the list since many students don't realize what they might be a match for or whether it matters that much whether they attend a lower level versus higher level school.</p>

14

<p>OOS or not? Not sure why this is the main issue. I understand the distinction between UC/Cal State and out-of-state (the former is overwhelmingly provincial -- full of nothing but Californians), but if you're looking at private colleges, that goes away. More important, I would think, would be D's academic/extracurricular strengths and interests. UMiami, I think, is business-oriented (as is Claremont McKenna). Is this what attracts her there or ... ? UMiami's sports image gets plenty of press, and many west coast students know it for this reason. What does your kid love?</p>

15

<p>I just reread the OP. I think the reason the OP was considering OOS was because she felt there might be merit opportunities there. I would not go that route unless your kid wants to be OOS. Mine is 3,000 miles away and on a merit deal but he ALWAYS wanted to be on the East Coast. Been talking about it for years and we have family there. Let her find safeties, matches, reaches in state and do all the financial stuff you can. We had a student from our HS last year who ended up at Georgetown. It was her dream school and she almost didn't get to go because of an idiot ex-husband/wife relationship between her parents. She got a lot of local scholarship money, etc. and put it together. BUT she is now a long way from home and money to come home for holidays etc. will be a struggle.
So...let your daughter come up with her own list...talk to her about what is realistic financially, do the FAFSA and the local scholarship stuff. Make sure she applies in time to be considered for merit money and then when those acceptances come in the two of you will weigh her dreams against reality and come up with the right decision.</p>

16

<p>Good am all, nice to wake up to all this great input...</p>

<p>On the way out the door, but want to answer the last question, and will fill in on the rest later...</p>

<p>she had consistently expressed interest in marine bio....more recent interests are environmental law/policy/science/studies....she is also a good artist, and I think would enjoy anthro. she is also possibly interested in pre-med or pre-vet</p>

<p>she is a classic Renaissance woman with a strong interest in life sciences and the environment</p>

<p>she has done speech and debate throughout high school, worked on Busby political campaign, active in Surfrider, USC/Woods Hole research cruise around Catalina and debate camp at Berkeley last summer, organized benefit concert for Darfur at her school etc etc</p>

<p>she loved the "field work" aspect of the research cruise</p>

<p>she is very social, yet claims she wants to challenge herself in college...not sure how she would handle an intense environment of just studying all the time</p>

<p>she likes berkeley best, so far</p>

<p>she's hard to define!!!</p>

<p>ebee- those kind of examples are very helpful, its tough picturing your kid 3000 miles away and having to scrape for money for trips home for vacations, but as you say, if the kid is highly motivated to be there for some reason, it can work out well..I haven't heard this motivation (yet?) from my d</p>

<p>thanks again everyone..there is SO much collective knowledge here!</p>

17

<p>Im not a good example,as both my kids went way OOS..first one from NY to Arizona,2nd one NY to S Carolina. Both were merit scholarship winners,both followed big dreams to their respective institutions (1st music,2nd sports management).But I think a kid who stays instate,if its a big state may have the same travel difficulties as an OOS?
The reason Im popping in here is to give you a heads up on Miami..it was S's #1 choice for a long time.He attended a summer program there and loved the school/locale.Marine Bio is #1 there.If she winds up applying,do pay attention to their early deadlines .S did Early Action and was fortunate to get their 3/4 tuition scholarship.
There's nothing wrong at this point in filling out the OOS apps and then having the luxury of deciding later if OOS is viable or not.If she doesnt do them,there will always be the what if......
Another thought..is it feasible to visit Miami so get a first hand idea of the contrast with the California school choices,and to get a feel for the transportation difficulties?</p>

18

<p>Not enough discussion of the money issues here. UCs are not as cheap as most state Us, and many kids don't graduate in 4 years. If you are woried about need based aid, she probably won't get any there. Most kids are saddled with debt at UCs. So if you're not comfortable spending $125K for 5 years at UCB, merit money is a good thing.</p>

<p>Her stats would help us. Will she qualify for any merit scholarships at UCs? Are there some great oos schools in her area of interest where she seems to qualify for major money?</p>

<p>I encourage my CA kids to look at colleges all over. CA doesd have a different culture than the rest of the Country and I would like my kids to have the opportunity for a change of venue. I'm also not happy with how few oos kids attend UCs.</p>

<p>College really adds up to about 7 months/yr, leaving lots of time for her to be home if she wants. So I would encourage her to look at oos schools with great merit aid as well as her CA options. Visit with her. Then let her decide.</p>

19

<p>I'm suprised that you have not already had the conversation about going out of state before this. Seems easier then thinking about it. Just tell your daughter that you are concerned that you've placed limits on where she should go to college. Explain that while you would love to have her close, you are just wondering if she would like to explore any colleges out of state. With our kids we had a price that we would pay and it didn't matter too much if it was in-state or out of state and location was just one of "fit" pieces of the puzzle. Like someone else said on this thread and I said on another, applying is not attending. There's no reason she couldn't apply now out of state, wait for the decision and then go visit.</p>

20

<p>You may want to have her check out USC[ University of Southern Calif]. Great university, very social, 17,000 undergraduates [which is just about the size of UC Berkeley?], and they are making a big push to recruit top students with lots of merit $. There are 7 different ways to major in Enviromental Science:
Environmental Studies (Biology) (B.S.)
Environmental Studies (Business) (B.A.)
Environmental Studies (Chemistry) (B.S.)
Environmental Studies (Earth Sciences) (B.S.)
Environmental Studies (Geography) (B.A.)
Environmental Studies (Public Policy and Management) (B.A.)
Environmental Studies (Social Sciences) (B.A.)</p>

<p>and a special program involving research on Catalina Island. <a href="http://www.usc.edu/org/seagrant/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.usc.edu/org/seagrant/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>