<p>Well, I’m hoping that if he were to go to Mudd, they have a placement policy that allows kids to place into higher level classes if they’ve completed lower level ones. I imagine that Mudd classes are very deep and challenging so I would think it would be fine. OTOH, he is auditing a senior level physics course at the local state univ. It’s reputed as the hardest u/g class. The textbook they use is the same one as a junior level class at Princeton that my son sat in on recently. So, if he were to major in physics, it is theoretically possible he could run out of classes. OTOH again (ha-ha), he hasn’t had quantum, nuclear, and a few other types of physics classes, so I’m sure it would work out.</p>
<p>At any rate, these would be good questions to ask the departments at Mudd. He’ll hopefully be visiting in the summer or doing the Fall FAST in September which includes a stay overnight, so hopefully, he’ll get a sense for what Mudd’s policies are, how challenging it is, and if it sounds like a good fit.</p>
<p>i have a very naive question. what do people mean that a class is hard. is it hard to learn the material? does that mean it is not taught well? if it’s taught well and you can understand it, then it should be easy, right? </p>
<p>or exams way too hard. then again, can a teacher ask impossible questions that are not answerable based on what’s taught or learned from assigned reading etc. or the assigned work is too much that it is impossible to be well-prepared for exams. if that’s the case, what is the teacher trying to do? testing learning or trying to stratify the students into pigeon holes of a, b , c etc, grade levels.</p>
<p>or kids are so smart, you have everyone getting above 90 points and only 98 and above gets an A. so margin of error is very small (getting 2400 in SAT small)</p>
<p>if one can compare two schools with similar classes, say physics or statistics with examples, perhaps i can gain an understanding of when they say it’s hard. </p>
<p>for atypical to-10% high school student, it is hard to believe anything can be hard. i hope someone can explain more clearly rather than insinuating that i have high school mentality and wait until i get to college.</p>
<p>Well, my son is practicing violin and can’t answer so I’ll give it a shot. Hard for him right now is reading the previous graduate level research documents his physics teacher at the university has given him in order to prepare him to do research this summer. His prof said it will take him at least 10 reads of the 20-40 page documents before he’ll begin to understand it.</p>
<p>Hard is also the kind of math and physics on things like the AIME and Physics Olympiad semi-finals exam. He is understanding more of the olympiad type math but some problems he definitely has no clue about (whether that’s from lack of exposure or something else, I can’t say). Also hard is working quickly to solve problems. He got a 5 on the AIME this year because he ran out of time. He didn’t make the physics olympiad team so I imagine a number of the physics problems were either too hard or too hard to do within time constraints.</p>
<p>I see him working through really long dif equ/real analysis math problems with his tutor and I would guess these problems are hard in terms of trying to problem solve in figuring out a way to approach the problem. They can often work on just one problem in an hour, both tackling it from different angles.</p>
<p>I also remember Calculus III was particularly challenging for him. He did get an A but he spent 20-30 hours a week doing homework. I don’t know what “hard” meant exactly, but I do know he said it was, by far, the hardest or most challenging of his community college classes.</p>
<p>Don’t know if that answered your question or not.</p>
<p>Oh, and for my son, the “hardest” thing will probably be to take 4-5 “hard” classes at the same time that require massive amounts of homework. He is definitely not used to that. While he has always studied 4-5 subjects a semester in high school, with at least two subjects being college level each semester, not all his subjects have required massive homework; in fact, some don’t require much or any at all. <em>That</em> will be the biggest shock I am imagining. My son likes free time to read, think, play, etc.</p>
<p>^Thanks for your reply. I am beginning to understand the concept of hard.</p>
<p>but, isn’t necessary that they teach first and allow time to learn before expecting to perform well on a test? perhaps everything happens at a compressed timescale further accentuating the level of difficulty.</p>
<p>then the question is, “is it really necessary to put oneself through such a hardship?”, can you not learn in a more learning-conducive teaching environments?</p>
<p>from what i understand, your son is one of the better students in math and physics (an i’m sure in others), and if he finds his math and physics homeworks hard, and faces time constraints, whatever will happen to lesser quality students that Mudd obviously admits?</p>
<p>why suffer with eyes wide open? graduates of schools that are not “army-drills” (say USC, for example, a fine school) are also going to top grad schools, do well professionally, get high-paying jobs and lead happy lives. so my question is why Mudd? why punish yourself?</p>
<p>For my son, it’s probably because he will finally be challenged. It’s been really hard to find challenge in his coursework at the community college (and it would have been impossible to find it at our local schools). He could have taken coursework at the local UC but it’s quite far and quite over our budget and he would have quickly exhausted his small 529. Math Circle and math competitions have given him plenty of challenge but he didn’t start them until last year. Also, if you look at some of the courses at places like Harvard, Princeton, Mudd, Stanford, etc. , they are so <em>interesting</em>!! I mean, did you know there’s a freshman seminar course at Harvard called something like math and chess?! I mean, how cool would that be for my son? :-)</p>
<p>Really though, I haven’t the foggiest idea if my son will get into any selective college or even want to attend. You raise some great questions. For some kids who have never really been challenged or been with peers who have an equal amount of excitement about learning (we know exactly one homeschooler in our circle who is excited about math and science), it can be very motivating.</p>
<p>When we visited Princeton, my son really enjoyed seeing an old friend from math circle. Their eyes lit up as they talked math (or whatever it was since I’m clueless). I think <em>that</em> is the reason kids choose to go to places like Mudd, or at least that’s my best guess.</p>
<p>Mine has a pile of advanced courses under his belt and talked to folks a bit about placement. I have the strong impression that it is well done and tends to be highly individualized. They have a lot of kids with strong backgrounds who have done widely varying things - self study, tutors, and courses at community colleges and universities, and online courses too. So, the school is flexible - there are various exams - some online and some sent over the summer and some done during orientation. And there is talking to the department.
So…don’t worry about placement. From what I have seen and heard, they will do a fine job.</p>
I have had success placing out of Core courses in Math, Physics and Chemistry. I haven’t taken any higher-level Physics (as I decided to major in CS-Math) but a couple of my friends have taken Quantum after placing out of E&M/Mechanics and they liked it. I highly doubt your son will run out of courses :P</p>
<p>HM physics courses:
A set of core courses is required of all physics majors; in addition, a variety of elective
courses enables students to select a program to suit their interests and their educational and employment objectives. Laboratory courses in both introductory and advanced physics include experience with electronics, classical and modern optics, solid-state physics, and atomic and nuclear physics. Special courses and reading courses provide the opportunity for study in advanced areas normally offered only in graduate programs.
Each student is encouraged to do individual experimental or theoretical research in an
area of his/her special interest, in conjunction with a faculty member. Current student-faculty research areas include observational astronomy, astrophysics, biophysics, computational physics,field theory, general relativity and cosmology, geophysics, laser and atomic spectroscopy,magnetism, particle physics, quantum optics, quantum theory and solid-state physics. In some of the optional programs, physics majors may elect to do research in biology or chemistry or participate in Computer Science, Engineering, Mathematics or Physics Clinic team projects.</p>
<p>So, I don’t think you need to worry. There’s plenty to do.</p>
<p>As for a class being “hard”, the definition tends to vary a lot at Mudd. Some teach very difficult material and some just give out a lot of work. </p>
<p>The hardest courses in core tend to be “Baby STEMS” and Electricity & Magnetism. These courses are taken sophomore year (so I haven’t had any direct experience with them yet). From what I hear, the material in E&M is difficult (the profs that teach it are GREAT, I’ve had several of them already), but you’ll find that at any college. E&M just isn’t intuitive and you have to think about it a lot to understand it. To remedy this, i’d recommend getting some exposure to E&M before you take the course, even if you teach yourself. As for STEMS, I hear that the class is a lot of work, but the material is invaluable for any scientist or engineer (Fourier Analysis!!!). </p>
<p>As for the frosh core classes, some are definitely harder than others. Both Prob/Stats and Energetics (the hardest and most complained-about Frosh courses) will be Pass/Fail next fall. Prob/Stats has a lot of difficult hw problems, and energetics is Thermo and Electrochem. In terms of the grading scale, you just have to remember that you aren’t in high school anymore. The threshold for an “A” is 90 in most departments (85 in physics), and it’s hard to get that high of a grade. Aiming for a 4.0 GPA isn’t a healthy expectation at Mudd. Even if you’re at the bottom of your graduating class, you’re at the bottom of the top 1% of the country. Mudd isn’t like Harvard where 91% of the graduating class graduates with honors. Like with many other tech schools, it’s an honor just to graduate, and a 3.5+ GPA will carry a lot of weight with graduate schools and employers.</p>
<p>In my son’s case, I think he would say “to prove to myself that I can.” He’s never had to work really hard before Mudd. He was a record-shattering tippy-top student at a good but ordinary high school. He’s never faced the possibility, likelihood, impending inevitability of failure. This year, he’s faced it a lot… and he’s beaten it… and he’s a better man for it. He’s found hidden reserves of capability that he didn’t know he had, because he never had to use them before. During the semester, he loses sleep, misses meals, and works his butt off – sometimes just to get by.</p>