<p>I play varsity basketball and have for the last two years. I am a junior who is involved in a lot of other things as well. Our team is great. We just won the state championship. I play quite a bit but I am not a star by any stretch. I am likely not good enough to be recruited by any college I want to attend, so being a recruited athlete is not much of an option for me. Playing on my team requires about 20-25 hours a week all year (we have summer leagues, etc.). So here's my question. As an non-recruited athlete, am I getting much of a boost for admission into top schools being a varsity baller on a very accomplished team? Or am I better off not playing my senior year and focusing on other things?</p>
<p>I've heard the colleges look favorably on students who do well in school while making the time commitment needed to play varsity sports, but because our school is so good, I think my time commitment is much heavier than people who play varsity on lessor teams (my cousins' varsity b-ball team stinks and they practice about 6 hours a week; our apps will both show varsity ball, however), and I am not sure colleges will know the difference. </p>
<p>if you enjoy the sport, I would continue playing senior year.
colleges are impressed w/ athletes who can juggle both academic and
athletic demands.</p>
<p>However, the very fact that you are asking this question creates doubt as
to your level of commitment…colleges will view it in a similar fashion should you
drop off the team.</p>
<p>Multiple ECs are not necessarily a wonderful thing…An EC that one is committed to and
demonstrably interest in, is.</p>
<p>I am committed primarily to getting into the best college possible. I love to ball but it takes so much time. I’m not interested in pursuing more ECs as much as taking more AP classes.</p>
<p>I would assume on your resume/app somewhere you’d be able to include that your team is state champion. I would think colleges are able to see that being on such a good team would require more than being on a mediocre team. If you love the sport, then I’d keep playing it.</p>
<p>How many APs do you have now? What kinds of schools are you looking at?</p>
<p>Thanks, youdon’tsay. I have 4 AP classes as a junior, 3rd-year Spanish, and PE (actually basketball practice). If I play ball next year, I can take 5 AP classes. If I don’t, I can take 6 AP classes and then have an extra 25 hours each week to study for them. So taking 6 would actually be easier than taking 5, since I would have an additional 25 hours of time. </p>
<p>I took the SAT in January and received a 2210 (780 M, 740 CR, and 690 W). I am number 5 in my class right now, but people are closing in pretty fast (I was 2nd at the end of last year). I will be applying to several schools (2 Ivies, 3 top LACs, Michigan, Northwestern; my safety will be Michigan State). </p>
<p>I love to play ball but since I won’t be recruited I don’t want to jeopardize my chances of getting into my dream schools by falling out of the top 10, etc. </p>
<p>If I was told be an adcom that they would look highly favorable at my athletic participation, I would definitely play next year (we could win state again). But if they told me that my participation is like being on the Debate Team, I’d probably not play and focus on school more.</p>
<p>I dont know what state you are from?? But if i had the chance to be 2 time state champ I would probably take it…its something that you will never forget…would you rather play basketball for 25 hours a week or study for 25 hours a week??? That is the question you should ask yourself.</p>
<p>You get to play meaningful minutes for a state championship high school team? </p>
<p>Enjoy every last minute of it. It is the time in your life to do so. And I mean it. </p>
<p>Heck, I was a national champion in my sport - went to college on an athletic scholarship at one of the highest ranked schools that give such scholarships. </p>
<p>And I can flat out tell you that as a mediocre basketball player dissuaded from playing basketball to participate in the sport to which I had talent that to this day the most fun I ever had was playing basketball with my mediocre suburban team. The emotional side of me regrets leaving basketball to this day. I say this as the vertical leap on my jump shot has descended from 12 inches to one-half inch - it was that much fun to be working with a group of guys, constantly covering for each other, working together, and relishing the strategy. </p>
<p>Life is more than making resume calculations about college. Play hoops, enjoy your teammates, be a coach on the floor when you can, and let it rip, really let it rip. </p>
<p>And if your game improves, don’t overlook Division III. College in many respects is about delaying your adolescence, and if you are going to do that, consider delaying it doing something fun, challenging and people oriented like basketball. </p>
<p>the problem i see here is that OP’s “love” seems to revolve only around how to get accepted to the best school possible, by whatever means possible. maybe i’m wrong here.</p>
<p>BUt, if OP drops varsity ball (state championship team), the lack of continuity will be noted on the app. An xtra AP course is not going to replace the memory of winning state as a senior, or make-up for a glaring question regarding commitment.</p>
<p>Five APs already is plenty. Your scores/rank look great. I would think that an adcom would be perplexed as to why you would drop a spot on a state championship sports team in favor of something like debate. Have you been involved in debate before, or is this just something academic-looking you’d pick up to pad a resume?</p>
<p>I’ve always heard that fewer, in-depth ECs are better. Your grades and scores indicate a serious level of academics. I think basketball player would be much more interesting to adcoms than debate.</p>
<p>And I agree with mam1959 about holding out the possibility of DIII ball. You might change a lot in the next year, and a smaller school would be appealing.</p>
<p>youdon’tsay: My message must have been unclear. I am not going to join the debate team. My point was that I fear that adcoms look at sports like being on the debate team – in other words, no big deal. I am not going to join any other ECs. I’m just freaking because my class rank will fall next year if I play ball just like it did this year. </p>
<p>Tmam1959: Thanks. I understand what you are saying and I agree. I love to play ball but since I am not a “star” and I am not going to be able to play sports at the school of my dreams (like you did) I have to look at what my economics teacher calls the opportunity cost of playing ball.</p>
<p>I think I am in for some disappointment no matter what I choose. If I play, my grades will definitely go down and I will definitely fall some in my class ranking. I go to a school with a lot of motivated people (boatloads who take AP classes in the summer for the GPA boost). Because there’s just no way I can get all A’s next year in 5 AP classes and play basketball, my ranking will fall. If I play ball and take fewer AP classes and get all A’s, my ranking will still fall because so many in my class will be taking 6 AP classes without sports and will get all A’s. My only hope of maintaining my class ranking is to take 6 AP classes and nail them all. The only way to do that is to not play ball, and I’ll regret that one day for sure. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t mind dropping in class rank if the schools I am applying to looked at my app and said something like, “Yeah, but this dude played ball and we know that took a lot of his time.” But I am worried they won’t say that. I am worried that they will just focus on the fact that my “trend” was to fall in class rank. I’ve heard that schools hate declining trends.</p>
<p>"I wouldn’t mind dropping in class rank if the schools I am applying to looked at my app and said something like, “Yeah, but this dude played ball and we know that took a lot of his time.” </p>
<p>For admissions at the very top schools, you’ll be competing against students who get high grades in a lot of APs while also doing very well in varsity sports or other time-consuming ECs.</p>
<p>If you’ll apply to top schools, they select students with demanding course loads and impressive ECs.</p>
<p>Just because you do not start for your very excellent high school team does not mean you can’t get significant help from an interested coach at an elite school. How tall are you and how good is basketball in your state? One of my Ivy football teammates back in the 60’s was the second string nose tackle on a Texas state championship team. The first string guy became a Longhorn.</p>
<p>Talk to Swarthmore. Your scores/grades are a match there.(They need all the athletic help they can get unlike Williams which is flush with jocks. LOL)</p>
<p>The thing you can do that will help you the most is maintain the M and CR and bring up the writing portion of the SAT. Practice definitely helps with that.</p>
<p>Unless money is a factor, do not go Division I. Play Ivy or Div III and go to graduate or professional school.</p>
<p>Big G: Big thanks. I am taking the SAT again in June. I made a huge mistake on my essay (I got a 5) but only missed one of the multiple choice questions. I think I can raise my writing score to a 730 or 740. If I do, that would put me above 2250 when superscored. I am only 57 but I am very quick and handle the ball well. I play great defense, too. Given my lack of size, I havent been able to get any coachs attention yet, but I will keep trying. I will look at Swarthmores website. </p>
<p>Northstar: Sports are created equal. Most of the top academic kids who play sports at my school play tennis, which takes almost no time (they dont practice except during the 2-month season). When you play football at the school down the road from us (a top football school), thats your life. Basketball is the top sport at my school. But no matter how much time a sport takes a kids app will say the same thing: Varsity athlete. My original question was whether adcoms give more weight to applicants whose athletic participation took tons of time or whether they lump athletics all in the same category.</p>
<p>Sports are not equal. In general, good football players are in much higher demand than are, for instance good swimmers and tennis players. Football teams are huge, and also bring in lots of revenue and prestige.</p>
<p>Old College Try - You are not screwed either way. Pay attention to your studies, take care of your body and health, and just let things happen. </p>
<p>Live life to its fullest. Help your basketball team get the best out of itself. Mentor the younger guys by your conduct. Do the little things right - like treating the team managers and trainers like the princes or princesses they really are - it will all make you happier in the end. </p>
<p>People live entire lives without having the experiences you have had in basketball. Appreciate that. You know darn well of what I speak, such as the nail biting two point victory against a hungry and determined team - you know - the game with your good plays that you play over and over again in your head as you go to sleep. That is living, my friend, and your teen years are the time to do it. Put yourself out there on the edge playing ball - and you will find it easier to do so with other challenges late in life. And I say this with confidence because almost all guys that can play the sport of basketball and the moxie that it takes - particularly smart guys like you - really do at the core enjoy it. Do forego it because of some abstract calculation about college admission. </p>
<p>I know this sounds preachy but if I were your neighbor, you can bet I would be coming to your games and supporting you as you grab what you can out of this world. I am now in a rather cerebral work-a-day world, but I know what athletics did for me - a poor single mother kid from Chicago who managed to attend some of our nation’s best schools through sports - and I just get great joy out seeing young people express themselves with it.</p>
<p>So, if you drop basketball you’d have no big ECs at all? I just wouldn’t go there.</p>
<p>I really understand the academic arms race going on in schools today. When I read posts by kids on here I think of my own son and what advice I’d give him. He’s also a varsity athlete, but he’s a starter on a not very good team. Just because the team’s not very good (or, in your case, just because you’re not a starter) doesn’t mean that you put in any less time (I know you said your cousin only puts in six hours a week on a not very good team, but my son didn’t get home from his game until 11:30 last night, so he’s putting in a lot of hours on his not very good team!). I think what he’d do if he didn’t play sports. It’s like he’d be a different person. And to drop sports for some tiny bump in his GPA? No way. His GPA also has dropped very slightly, but his percentile had dropped substantially because kids have transferred out of his competitive, application-only school in order to go back to their home schools and finish in the top 10%. He also loaded up with APs (six this year, six next year) and he’s not been able to maintain straight As. Does this stress ME out? Yep. But the solution would never be to give up a sport he’s played since he was 4 and loves. As you said, your rank will drop some anyway so why take this great part of your resume off the table? A drop in rank AND he quits his best EC? I think that would really stand out.</p>
<p>Can you take AP classes over the summer like these other kids to keep from losing so much ground? I know you said you have summer league but thought I’d ask anyway.</p>
<p>I never thought sports were that big a deal until I innocently started a thread about it on here. WW III ensued as those whose kids weren’t athletes took offense when those whose kids were (or just random posters) talked about the Jeffersonian ideal of a sound mind and sound body and why that’s attractive to colleges. It was interesting. </p>
<p>I’m wondering what kinds of colleges you are applying to. If we’re talking UT, where rank is king, I could see making a case for concentrating on the rank.</p>
<p>youdon’tday: My academic dream schools are Brown and Princeton. If I were a better player, I’d love to play for Michigan, but that’s a fantasy not a dream. I will be applying to Michigan regardless since it’s a great school. I also like Northwestern. My sisters went to Stanford and I’ll apply there to but I don’t really want to follow my sisters’ path. I’d like to create my own.</p>
<p>I like the phrase “academic arms race.” Some kids really do see grades as a race. I get good grades at a very competitive school but I’ve never considered myself a grade wonk. Until about a month ago I didn’t even give my class standing that much thought but some things changed recently that made me take my standing more seriously and to think about whether or not I should play next year. To take summer AP classes you literally have to line up overnight. Some students will do anything to get in those classes. I’m not too fond of those games. I’m not saying it’s wrong but I don’t feel right doing crazy stuff for grades. </p>
<p>Your son sounds like he’s in the same boat with me. Where does he want to go? Do you think his athletic participation will hurt his chances? Does he sleep much? I don’t. I also get home late and then stay up really late doing hw. Thanks goodness for Red Bull.</p>
<p>Ds isn’t interested in the Ivies at all or anywhere cold, so I don’t know a lot about those particular schools and their admissions criteria. I hope others with more info about those schools will return with specific knowledge.</p>
<p>He usually gets plenty of sleep. I just won’t let him sleep for only 2-3 hours a night, like kids in the top 10% of his school do. Last night’s 4-5 hours of sleep was the first time that’s ever happened. Usually it’s 7-8. I just don’t think a 97 instead of a 93 is worth compromising your health (or having to drink Red Bull – blech, I hate that stuff! ), but I imagine that attitude might cost him this time next year. Oh well. For me, the stress isn’t about getting in to a good school (I’m sure he will) but affording it.</p>
<p>I don’t think his sport has hurt him. I hope that in holistic admissions he’ll be greatly helped by his sports participation. Not only does he play, he refs as well, so it comes across as the true passion it is. However, being in Texas, he’ll have a hard time getting into UT since he’s not in the top 10%. I hate that the state flagship has to be a reach for him, especially because his CR+M SAT scores are more than 200 points above the freshman class avg, but that’s the downside of the choice he made of attending such a rigorous program where his rank is going to be lower. The good news is UT isn’t his first choice (or second or third).</p>
<p>Ds also doesn’t play the GPA game. He takes courses he’s interested in (hence the six APs) and lets the chips fall where they may. Sometimes I wished I’d advised him to play the game more, but what’s done is done. People on here call GPA chasers grade grubbers. At ds’s school, the term is a little ruder. :D</p>
<p>Oh, and I meant to ask how large your class is? Are you fifth out of 50 or 500? That would make a big difference, IMO. Does dropping a few more spots means you go from the top 2% to 3% or from the top 5% to the top 15%?</p>
), but I imagine that attitude might cost him this time next year. Oh well. For me, the stress isn’t about getting in to a good school (I’m sure he will) but affording it.</p>