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So for me, getting into the top programs was easy, but what's not easy is for potential applicants to assume a priori that they'll be able to acquire those kinds of credentials.
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<p>Well, I think someone who was the top person at a decent public school and easily got 5's on their AP tests can assume that they will be able to get a 3.5 or better at a state school. (It might be a bit harder for engineering, because some people that are good at math & science really hate engineering and it's hard to know beforehand whether you'll like it and do well in it.) Also, if you spend a year in a lab as an undergrad, if you have a pulse it is likely you will be able to publish a 2nd or 3rd author paper. Getting a 1st author paper is quite a bit harder (and also rarer.) </p>
<p>If you do both of these things and are a good test-taker (above 700's on SAT, SATII's,) you will be extremely competitive. I'd say you would get in most of the top 5 schools you apply.</p>
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It's easier for top students to get into top grad school than undergrad.
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<p>By "easier" I'll strongly wager you meant something about easier predictability. Generally, top graduate students at a school like MIT for some fields, like math, are going to come from VERY top people FROM schools like MIT, and crazy international students. </p>
<p>I'll wager that Gary Sivek, a third year math grad student I know from my school, and a former student of economics, math, and EECS at MIT, was probably a particularly great student at MIT. From what I hear. I'm pretty incredibly certain that to triple major (or minor in several related fields) and STILL have enough depth in one's area of study to get into math grad school takes quite an effort. </p>
<p>Edit: Mollie already basically said what I said above earlier. As I'm writing this, I realize she may have known who this math grad student I mention is.</p>
<p>Well, ok, I guess I wasn't thinking of theoretical math and physics when I wrote that. It's true that the standards in admissions for grad school for those fields are higher than undergrad admissions at MIT or Caltech.</p>
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By "easier" I'll strongly wager you meant something about easier predictability. Generally, top graduate students at a school like MIT for some fields, like math, are going to come from VERY top people FROM schools like MIT, and crazy international students.
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<p>I also agree with Mollie and mathboy. The bar isn't set lower for grad school admissions. Rather, it is just that the grad school admissions process is less... nebulous, perhaps, hence making it easier in general for applicants to accurately forecast their admissions results. (I'm not sure 'nebulous' is exactly the right word, but it's late and it's the most appropriate word I can think of right now...)</p>
<p>georgia tech dahlings:) mainly because i only applied to MIT for kicks and giggles (which is probably why i didn't get in... WAY too expensive anyways)</p>
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Well, ok, I guess I wasn't thinking of theoretical math and physics when I wrote that. It's true that the standards in admissions for grad school for those fields are higher than undergrad admissions at MIT or Caltech.
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<p>The standards for graduate studies are different. Statistically speaking, it's more difficult to get into graduate school in general this year - you can find this out for yourself by perusing the graduate school forum here or at other websites. </p>
<p>To get a better feel for graduate admittance in a technical field such as EE, you can look at Berkeley's website in EECS (which is comparable to these schools in EECS research) - they accepted 100/2500 (4%) last year. I expect that MIT/Caltech will hover around this percentage as well. Competition</a> for Admission | EECS at UC Berkeley</p>
<p>I read in the Graduate school forum that UCSD Biomedical Sciences accepted ~25/800 applicants. Yale claims 500/9500 admittance overall this year - a nice veiled brag to entice prospective students.</p>
<p>These percentages are noticeably smaller than undergraduate admittance percentages. Also, keep in mind that only academically successful undergraduates apply for PhD programs. Although the formula for admittance to top tier graduate programs is more well defined, that shouldn't imply that it's any easier (it's arguably more difficult in many cases) - you have to convince these schools to pay you ~$200-400k (stipend + tuition for 4-6 years).</p>
<p>It's hard to get a hold on graduate admissions because it's very department-dependent.</p>