@momcares- I can certainly understand where you are coming from- but if you don’t think visits are best- how would you recommend choosing between schools?
I think you should visit a few schools that perhaps your kid is on the fence about but not that many. Only if it’s convenient or you’re in the area anyway like on vacation and can slip it in. I agree that a visit can be misleading in some instances. It’s all a crap shoot. Seeing a production is nice but may not indicate a lot about the program quality. Recently my D was interested in a school not mentioned on CC really. Very little info about it but what I read was not negative. It is reasonable cost wise & seemed to be perhaps a good fit. Then she asked a respected teacher about it & that person said “no way should you go there for MT” …SO now my D crossed it out for that sole reason. Ugh. Frustrating but all opinions vary and I don’t think there’s any good way to choose. Just have to do your best & hope it all works out. I know I read in one thread somewhere that someone nixed a school as soon as they pulled in the parking lot. I’m not sure if that even gives you a chance to make any even half a–ed decision really. I would think you have to at least do a tour. I think a good place to ask would be a current graduate of the program. That way it’s not a current student so they might be less biased in that they’ve already graduated and might be more forthcoming in honest info since they’re no longer at the school.
In reading the thread about # of schools to apply to- I had a thought. It is harder to write a “why _________” essay - or answer that question in an audition - for a place you have never seen. Especially when you have a large # of schools. We toured all of the schools on D’s list (but 1) and she took pictures on her phone. She pulled those up before each audition - and it really helped jog her memory.
I think an ideal approach would be to first think about yourself and what you want to gain during college (specific skills, experiences and general education) and what type of environment (location, type of peers, school and class size, number of profs, etc) you want to be in for 4 years. Then after you have a list of schools that seem to fit, seek out friends or contacts who have extensive experience with each school (or get contact info of current and former students from the school) and grill them… ideally more than one as experiences vary. Study faculty resumes, and learn as much as possible about alumni. D was lucky in that she knew kids who had attended almost every program she was interested in, so she had lots of “insider” insight and could see firsthand how kids entered and left programs.
Unsurprisingly, D found a summer program with actual faculty was also a great way to look under the hood.
I don’t think schools need to hear anything about the physical campus In a “why ______” essay, but rather want to get a clear picture of you, what about their program excites you, and how you would contribute.
I think it’s great to visit schools as convenient, but caution people about thinking they really know any school based on a short visit. I view that more as window shopping, and some places put more effort in to window dressing than others.
For me, personally, I loved visiting schools. I liked walking around all the buildings, seeing what the dorms and cafeterias were like, finding out if they have a Starbucks, looking at the bookstore, listening to the faculty give their pitch, etc. I like studying the architecture, learning about the history of the school, getting a feel for the campus, sniffing the air on the quad.
But, much to my surprise, my d had zero interest in any of that until she was accepted. She did visit one school that gave her an early acceptance and really enjoyed it, but her ultimate decision was based just about entirely on:
(1) Her impressions and observations of the faculty and students working the audition.
(2) Subsequent Q&A conversations with the MT program heads.
(3) Recommendations from experts that that she discussed her choices with.
How you approach this is, I think, a very personal thing and the variance of appropriate approaches are going to be wide and determined individual by individual. I think there is no one right answer. I certainly agree with @theaterwork that no matter how you approach it, its a crapshoot and I also agree completely with @MomCares that first impressions, no matter how in-depth, can be misleading. Until you attend, you never really know how things will turn out.
One thing is certain, visits take a lot of time and, depending on where you live, a lot of money. D only had a couple of schools on her list that are within a day’s drive of our house.
Also, d’s list had some variance in it throughout the audition process and so trying to visit all the schools would have been impossible; a couple of schools got added fairly late in the game. So, there was always going to be an element of conjecture that prevented a decision based entirely on a priori investigations.
One observation from d after a tour was, “how come they always show you the football field but they never show you the theatre?” (unless you schedule a specific visit with the theatre department).
On one tour of a very hilly campus, the tour guide literally looked us up and down (it was an artsy group to be honest) and offered to point anyone toward the bottom-of-the-hill physical fitness center if anyone REALLY wanted to go all the way down there to check it out. She was right in her assessment. None of us took her up on it! ;))
@MomCares- you are certainly correct that a summer program is one of the very best ways to get to know a school. D Did the Tisch summer program and I know that was very important in that being her final choice. She was also accepted at summer programs for Boston and Northwestern (where she was eventually also accepted for college) if she had chosen one of those would she have ended up at one of those schools? Hard to tell- but I have a sneaking suspicion it might be yes. One of the reasons she felt strongly about NYU is that she understood how things would be there. BUT it’s challenging to do more than one. I have said a number of times that if I were doing it all over again I would have D do a college program after sophomore year, and/or try to create a schedule were she could have done more than one in a summer.
BTW - her pictures etc for “why” questions were not a reminder of the campus building- but experiences there - which I know helped her craft a more personal response
Finally, while current/former students are a fantastic resource- they are limited as well. They have only experienced one program- and while they know it in detail, I can imagine it could be hard to get direct comparisons from their statements. D knew people at every school she applied to- and she spoke to many of them. But I remember her saying “they all say the same thing…” It was not helpful to her.
In another example of how we did everything wrong, we primarily visited two schools that my S did not get into and made a hurried spring break car trip to see the ones that did grant admission about a week before decision date. I would not recommend this to anyone, but a day at CCPA Roosevelt got my S really excited about the program and relieved some, but not all, of my doubts. (My main doubt was that I could ever make enough money to pay for it, but I was also worried about the non-academic nature of it.)
I agree that most students only experience a single school, but D still felt she learned a lot about schools from how students talked about their experiences and answered her questions. And maybe more importantly she got a sense of which types of kids were in various programs and how they changed during college years.
D’s summer experience (MPulse) actually taught her a lot about some things she didn’t want, including spending 4 years in the company of a very small cohort and with a small number of professors, so I guess they can work either for or against programs but in any case help kids learn what they want from college.
“For example, D sat in on what she thought was a so-so MT class at one school, only to later realize that neither the professor nor any of the students were even part of the MT program!”
Agreed, but as an explanation, when my daughter related to me why she suddenly loved the school it was equal parts because of the extremely warm welcome she received from all of the students in the (Freshman acting) class, and their interaction with her, followed by watching a challenging class where she felt there was a real emphasis on supporting each other - something which ran contrary to rumors she had heard about the program.
“And I’ve seen a huge quality range in productions on the same campus, depending on goals, budgets, directors, available casting pools, etc. that could lead to vastly different first impressions of a program.”
Again, agreed, but in the case of both the production she loved and the production which disappointed her, it was the main, one and only “big” show of the entire semester for each school and largely featured upperclassmen and she quite simply felt that the overall performance standard was lacking at one of them. She’s also seen two others, as a point of comparison and sees a lot, overall, so I think that in most instances it’s a reasonable indication of how they’re shaping their students - though not foolproof.
On top of all of this, at yet another school visited, my daughter came away with an “it seemed fine but I really didn’t get a good sense of the place. I’ll apply, but I’m not sure what being a student there is all about.” About 8 months later she wound up in a summer program there, and fell completely in love with it and radically shifted her viewpoint on things which she had perceived as negatives, now turning them into positives. She’s aware that her very positive summer experience there has influenced her “pecking order” and is trying to keep an open mind about all the schools she’s applied to. Obviously summer programs offered by the schools themselves (and not by an outside entity “renting” space on the campus) - are the perfect immersion, but most of them are crazy expensive and not always easy to get into either - hopefully the targeted training and answers gained about what they might or might not be seeking in a school - exactly as your daughter experienced - justifies the cost.
I do believe that trying to connect to recent graduates - especially those who have been in the work force for 3 to 5 years after graduating and asking them well thought-out, very specific questions, is the most valid source of real information.
A piece of related advice. Be prepared for your student to hate schools you love and for you to hate schools they love. I ran into some of that with both of my kids. Remember it’s their journey but at the same time, reserve the right for veto power if there is a good reason to use it. I had one I did veto prior to applying and another I would have vetoed if it looked like it was going to be the pick but fortunately, it never came to that. My reasons were not about my personal preference. They were legit big picture reasons that sometimes a parent can see and a HS senior cannot.
I completely agree halflokum. I loved everything about Northwestern (what’s not to love?) D applied only to humor me. She was pleased to be accepted- but later told me she would have gone to ANY other school on her list 1st. Ah well…
@halflokum I am glad you said that about veto power. Everyone keeps saying “Oh my child needs to make the choices” and so forth and I agree with that MOST of the time, but I also agree an average high school senior has no true grip on financial issues as well as , like you said, the big picture. I mean I know our kids are great and responsible and smart but they are indeed teens still. Sorry I dont even subscribe to the fact that when you are 18 you are an adult yet…maybe legally and on paper but not really. You just don’t have the experience that a 45 yr old mom has. I cannot idly sit by while my D chooses schools that are not even financially feasible w/ scholarships. It really has to be a family decision in my opinion. It is SO much money. I am willing to concede on some things but not everything and I am "encouraging’ my D to explore every option, not just get caught up in the hype. Its hard when your child only hears about the likes of CMU and NYU and has visited NYC a lot and has this starstruck idea about how to get to her goal…well that is what my kid had and I am just now getting her back down to earth. Finally getting her to consider other schools and options. Getting her to visit some other schools to get a positive vibe from some , which she has gotten thank God!
@halflokum @theaterwork Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! That’s exactly why I’ve been deflecting the love for the summer program just a bit, until any/all acceptances and - hugely important, for us at least - financial aid, are determined. I’ve been lucky in that my opinion and my daughter’s have largely aligned – hopefully that will be the case when final decisions, factoring in many things are made.
I am a big fan of the school-based summer programs, and we made a big investment in them (since d was fortunate enough to get into a bunch)
She did three programs in two summers, in three different states…and yes they pretty much became our family trips. We scheduled other college tours around those trips, and added two additional tours around a master class at another University. She feels that getting to work with faculty and working alum has offered invaluable insight into the programs, not to mention incredible learning and networking opportunities. The network of actors she’s met is really special. Also…I’ll probably regret saying this, but we (non musical, no theater experience until MT kid came along - parents) really needed to get a feel for where she was training/talent-wise on more of a national level. I realize that isn’t a magic litmus test for the future…but, we just needed some reassurance that our d had a little more than just a fighting chance. We also thought her summer experiences would help us be realistic when it came to making a list and applying to schools.
Of course I drank the cool-aid at a couple of the BIG programs we visited…which I had completely different impressions of before our visit. Sometimes I think the visits were most beneficial for me, and after all…I’m paying the bill
@deelight- I totally get where you are coming from on summer programs helping parents too. If my D had not done NYU summer I don’t think I would have been able to say “yes” to the idea of her living in the city for college. Those 4 weeks were just as important for me as they were for her 
@theaterwork and @rampions, financial concerns are of course an excellent reason for the parental veto. I vetoed one because the college had just gotten caught up in a big scandal (Penn State just as the whole Jerry Sandusky thing was breaking and it was unclear where it would end) and I was prepared to veto another over location. Great school but in a place that was just too hard to get to from the west coast which also meant too hard for my city raised girl to get out of if she needed to and I knew she would need to because I think the remoteness would have gotten to her. At one point before she got her studio assignment from NYU (which was game over), I thought she was going to pick another school over another one of her options that I SO much preferred for her. I tossed and turned over that one but would not have used my veto for it. That would just have been all about my personal preference vs. hers. It wasn’t a good enough reason to interfere and I’m sure it would have worked out just fine once I got over myself
I think those pre-college summer programs sound great but it’s more about the training you get there, the fun you have there and perhaps the experience of being away from home for a while. For the sake of people that cannot afford them or do not prioritize doing them, there are plenty of free ways to get a read on your student’s competitiveness. After all, though those programs often have a national draw, it is only a national draw of students who choose to do them. That leaves out the majority of students who you will be up against when you apply. My free way was to play the “swap out” game any time I saw a professional production, especially Broadway or a Broadway tour. I’d watch people in the cast and ask myself, is there anyone up there I could swap out my daughter for and she would make the show or the role better? If the answer was “yes”, I’d think, “OK, she’s nationally competitive.” It take discipline to not get swept up in the inherent bias we feel towards our own little darlings but it can work.
Just found out that son’s friend, who attended one of the tippy-top summer schools and, based on her comments after the program, believed she would be accepted as an MT major, did not pass the pre-screen. I am so sad for her, especially as she does not have many other applications out. Hopefully, it is the wake-up call she needed to get her going on more apps before the deadlines. She is a hugely talented girl with a distinctive “look” and a glorious voice. The competition is ridiculously high if a girl like this, who the school knows from summer camp, can fail a pre-screen. Oh, and the school picked out her repertoire for her.
My impression was that our D got relatively little in terms of training from her summer program (I think most kids there arrived with extensive training), but gained a huge amount in terms of better understanding what she wanted from college. In her case she realized she really preferred a top BA over any BFA programs, as she found that she wanted more than MT skills training and didn’t want to spend nearly all of her time surrounded by the same small group of MTs. I’m sure some kids gain a lot of new training, but I’m not sure that’s usually the case.
It never came to this, since D got admitted ED to her top choice program, but there were some schools on D’s list that I think I would have had a hard time forcing myself to write checks to.
That must have been rough, but perhaps it was an academic issue, or as you say they knew they weren’t admitting any of her type and didn’t want to waste her time.
I did a summer program at a university this summer that was different than ones like Overtures or Interlochen. The school didn’t have a musical theatre program just a theatre program but they had a summer musical theatre program. It was two weeks and didn’t include housing and such. It was a 2 week tease of a MT BFA program. Long day of acting and exhausting dancing and various other vocal and scene work things. While I did get some skill improvements, I agree with @MomCares that I gained insight into what my life would be like if I did one of those conservatory type program like Cincinnati or Roosevelt. Now I know that I would like BFA busy conservatory schedule, despite falling asleep at 8:30 every night because of being so exhausted, it was rewarding.