<p>Jonri:</p>
<p>I understand what you are saying. Where I differ is that I don't view PhD production as a "qualitative" measure. Rather I view it as purely as a statistical descriptor. It simply raises flags. If I see a school that produces a ton of PhDs in a particular field, I figure it might be worth looking into that school a little bit if I'm interested in that field.</p>
<p>Let me give you an example. Swarthmore is the #1 producer of Economics PhDs by a mile, producing more than double the number per undergrad than the three schools tied for second place (Grinnell, Williams, and Carleton).</p>
<p>What does that mean? IMO, it does not mean that Swarthmore has a better Economics department than Williams (although it's probably pretty decent). To me, it means that Swarthmore is a school that produces a lot of PhDs, period (it does - 21% of Swarthmore grads get PhDs). And, that within Swarthmore, the Econ department attracts a high percentage of Swarthmore students (it, in fact, does - 14% of the graduates last year). And that of that large group of Econ majors, a higher than average percentage opt for an academic/theoretical/think tank/public policy career for which a PhD would be an appropriate degree (yep, about 15% of Swat Econ majors got PhDs.). All of that is more "descriptive" than "qualitative".</p>
<p>On your CalTech versus MIT thoughts, I think it's much simpler than that. I think Caltech is simply a PhD producing machine. Forget departments, they produce twice as many PhDs per capita than MIT, period. Interestingly, they even produce as many Economics PhDs per capita as MIT even though they don't offer an Economics major. Doesn't make CalTech "better" than MIT. It's just tells us something descriptive about the two schools.</p>
<p>The reason that huge state universities don't produce as many PhDs per capita is that a smaller percentage of their students are involved in those kind of academic pursuits. The fact that they have Nursing School and Agriculture School and all that is what makes them different than a school that is specfically focused exclusively on arts and sciences. The undergrad Physics department at UCB is, almost certainly top-notch. But, it is one tiny slice of a big pie. Couple that with the fact that state schools attract a different kind of student body (as a whole) comprised of future doctors, future scientists, future car dealers, future insurance agents, etc -- typically a much broader slice of humanity than you will find at an elite private college. So all the PhD production numbers are doing is describing that reality.</p>
<p>Your D.Div. issue is an interesting one. I saw it quite clearly in the data. My attitude is "so what?". Some schools produce a ton of doctoral degrees in English. Some in Anthropology. Some in Divinity. To me, that simply describes something potentially interesting about the schools. When I look at the top per capita producers of doctorate degrees in Religion and Theology, I see a lot of schools with strong religious traditions (including Wheaton, Davidson, Swarthmore, Haverford, and St. Olaf), so it's not surprising that these schools would produce higher percentages in this area. I assume that many of these doctorates are, indeed, preachers:</p>
<p>1 Oklahoma Baptist University 13
2 Ouachita Baptist University 10
3 Hardin-Simmons University 9
4 Howard Payne University 8
5 East Texas Baptist University 8
6 Columbia International University 7
7 Louisiana College 7
8 Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL) 7
9 Union University 7
10 Philadelphia College of Bible 6
11 Central Bible College 6
12 Southern California College 6
13 St John's College (both campus) 6
14 Southwest Baptist University 6
15 Mississippi College 6
16 Davidson College 6
17 Samford University 5
18 Reed College 5
19 Houghton College 5
20 University of Mobile 5
21 St Olaf College 4
22 Campbellsville University 4
23 Amherst College 4
24 Asbury College 4
25 Cumberland College 4
26 Olivet Nazarene University 4
27 Carson-Newman College 4
28 Haverford College 4
29 Swarthmore College 4
30 William Carey College 4
31 Northwest Nazarene College 4</p>