<p>Greetings, everyone, and thank you for this wonderful forum. I have read and learned a lot here. DD is a junior and plays violin. She spent the fall semester at a non-musical wilderness/school program and, unexpectedly, it made her realize that she wants to go to music school. </p>
<p>We have scheduled a visit for next month at the only school on her tentative list which requires a plane trip -- this school is also possibly the best match for D and, assuming the visit goes well, may end up one of her top choices. The admissions office set up her visit according to D's requests, including a sample lesson. In previous lesson threads here I've read the pros and cons for junior-year lessons, and figured that we should not waste this opportunity even knowing that the teacher will be hearing a player many months away from audition-ready. (The teacher knows that too, after all.) </p>
<p>Problem is: D is having a harder time coming back from not playing for a semester than anticipated. She got through her recent auditions for summer programs somehow by playing pieces she studied last year, and is still catching up with orchestra repertoire. The difficulty as she describes it is that it takes her much more practice time than usual in order to make any progress with a given piece. Her playing seems OK given all the extra work she is putting in, but still she is not at her best, and is not feeling confident.</p>
<p>No. It's not an audition, it's a lesson. My kids did not approach their sample lessons with finished pieces, but with pieces in progress. What you are trying to gauge at this point is whether you like the teacher's teaching style, whether he/she relates well to your D. What the teacher is trying to see is what level pieces she is working on, and how teachable she is. So when the teacher tells her to play something a bit differently, or tries to fix a technique - can she?</p>
<p>In between all that, the teacher will be watching and listening for things like intonation, tone quality, basic technique - these are not things you need finished pieces for.</p>
<p>When my D had her sample lessons, we had just moved home from Germany a few months before. Just before we left, she performed a concerto. Then she started with a new teacher, who worked a couple months on etudes and exercises before starting her on a couple new pieces. So when she went to the lesson, she had a very, very rusty concerto that she hadn't looked at for a couple months, and a couple brand new pieces. She is also a violinist, and it generally takes her months or more to perfect a piece, so these were very raw.</p>
<p>The teachers all said she would fit right into their studios. After all, they have heard pieces in progress before!</p>
<p>Of course, we explained our situation, as you should.</p>
<p>What admissions office offered to set the sample lesson up for you? </p>
<p>I'm in the middle of planning a spring-break college visit trip for my junior cellist, and I've been assuming that setting up sample lessons is entirely our job, and to be done one-on-one with teachers we are interested in. I would <em>love</em> for an admissions office to be interested in doing this, as I have found it hard to get teachers to reliably and consistently respond to e-mails and voicemails.</p>
<p>An admissions department that set up the lesson - you are lucky! </p>
<p>I think there are several considerations:</p>
<p>1) What does your D's private teacher suggest? The teacher should be the best judge, presumably knowing the school your D is looking at, the instructor who will hear her and your D's current level of playing vs. the level expected in several months.</p>
<p>2) What did she use for her summer program auditions? If the material is the level that would be expected at college auditions and she's playing that well, it would be fine to play this to get a feel for the teacher, then present different repertoire for the actual audition next year. This was the strategy my S used for his junior year lessons. </p>
<p>3) How competitive will admissions be? Is the school quite competitive or possibly a "reach"? As Binx said, the teacher will be looking at basics. If they are there now for your D, there shouldn't be a problem. However, your D will have only one chance to make a good "first impression". A performance ready piece may not be required (S used this strategy also!), but good overall development needs to be demonstrated. If she's having trouble getting back into her playing, she may not be as comfortable as she would be next fall. At auditions, instructors do remember students they met for lessons. I think it's best to optimize the early contact! </p>
<p>I'm sure it's hard not to take advantage of the lesson opportunity when you have already traveled to visit the school. Perhaps she could just talk with the potential instructor. In one of his trial lessons, S did discuss repertoire with one of the instructors quite extensively as well as that teacher's general approach. Personally (and that's me - may not be you and your D!!), I'd be hesitant to encourage my son to play in a situation like this if he felt wasn't confident.</p>
<p>Best of luck - no matter what you decide!</p>
<p>Cross-posted with Binx. I think our posts seem to present opposite views, but actually I agree with everything Binx says! I think it all may come down to how your D feels. Is her current level of playing at all representative of the "norm" or does she feel that she's not presenting a true picture of her abilities at the present time?</p>
<p>Just want to add one thought. A work "in progress" that is part of the audition repertoire is probably the best thing for a sample lesson. Everyone has things that they listen for in a piece and the teacher will make suggestions on intonation and phrasing during the lesson. Additionally, an important selection criterion is whether or not the prospective student "can be taught." </p>
<p>If you come back to audition, the teacher will be listening to see if the suggestions they made during the sample lesson were followed.</p>
<p>Another two cents! We are making a trip to hear a recital at my sophomore daughter's top choice of music school. We were considering a sample lesson even at this early time as we have a pretty good connection to do so. My daughter is prepping for a competition and has repetoire, her voice teacher felt that if you are experiencing any kind of technique issue it might not be a good idea to share that with a school you are very interested in. We opted out--mostly because it is a tad early.</p>
<p>However, if it were her junior year we definitely would have gone with the lesson.</p>
<p>I suspect there are differences between instruments. I know that within the violin world there are many instructors who want only "their" bowings, or fingerings, or interpretations (especially solo Bach!) from younger students. Violin auditioners can be placed in a difficult position if different teachers have given them different instructions regarding what they expect to see in auditions. This may be less true with wind instruments.</p>
<p>I'm with Ariamom. In all things musical - discuss with your child's private teacher! They are a much better judge of all the factors than well-intentioned strangers trying to advise an unseen student!</p>
<p>We also noted the phenomenon with certain teachers concerning bowings and fingerings that musicianmom describes. Our take is that it was valuable to find out who wanted what and avoid those whose demands were too incompatible with what her current teacher had my daughter doing. She was fine with letting college teachers accept her or not based on what she was doing, rather than trying to change her playing too radically for the sake of an audition. That may not be the best attitude when seeking paid employment, but it worked for her in selecting a college teacher.</p>
<p>On a couple of occasions during auditions, she had to stand up for the bowings and fingerings that she was using. She was able to do that because the teacher with whom she was studying was very big on explaining not only "how" but also "why". Some of the audition judges were uneasy with this, but most were impressed. The funniest example of this came when two judges got into a heated debate between themselves in the middle of one audition over her approach - one strongly claiming that his way was the only way and the other one insisting that what my daughter was doing was not only valid, but a much better approach for someone with less than enormous hands. She was accepted there but decided not to go.</p>
<p>Thanks, there is lots here to think over. Binx, I'm glad to hear that you think it would be all right to explain the situation if we decide to go ahead. </p>
<p>For summer auditions, D played unaccompanied Bach and Dvorak Romance in F minor. She also has Bruch concerto from last year that she could pull out. She is not playing any of this quite as well as when it was first polished, but her teacher thought it was good enough to go forward with the auditions. We do need to talk more with her teacher about the college visit. My guess is that the basics are there, and will be even more there after a few more weeks go by. Teachability seems to be one of D's strong points, so that also may be a plus. </p>
<p>The school with the helpful admissions department is Lawrence. Mind you, we made it a little easier for them by not specifying <em>which</em> of Lawrence's two violin teachers she wanted for the lesson. (Since there are only two, we thought it possible to try both before decision time, and so it didn't seem crucial which one we started with.) While admissions has written back to say yes to everything except the overnight dorm stay (they don't do that for juniors), they have not given us a detailed schedule or said which teacher the lesson will be with. So I am not 100% sure we have an actual appointment as yet. </p>
<p>Regarding the "reach" factor: I think that this is more of a match school for D, possibly a very good match. Oberlin would be a reach, both musically and academically (she wants to do double degree). However, she certainly wants to put her best foot forward and not mess up that first impression. There is no taking anything for granted, we are well aware!</p>
<p>Just make sure when you go to a lesson for the first time, you find out what the expectations are.</p>
<p>A few kids who were in the same studio as me in 1st year were totally blown away when they realized that the general pace for that teacher was 1 major concerto a month. I don't know who she is auditioning for, but if it's for a really competitive studio, she should get used to getting things going much faster. The pace can be really cut throat. I don't know what it's like at state schools and stuff like that though.</p>
<p>You've obviously thought this whole thing through very well - I didn't pick all your planning/preparation up from the first post. Tell D to trust her teacher's assessment and, if given the go ahead, have a great trial lesson - she'll do fine!! Wish her best of luck from a well-intentioned stranger!</p>
<p>Thanks so much, musicianmom, and of course you are right that even the best of strangers can't know the whole situation. I guess I was partly wondering if cancellation itself would be a black mark of some sort. I would feel even worse about cancelling if we had been in direct contact with the teacher.</p>
<p>I want to comment on our experience with different approaches. My D started with Suzuki - grades 1-5, then had traditional lessons from a Korean teacher grades 6-8, then a German teacher grades 9-11, and an American (from the same symphony as the Korean) in 12th. When she went off to trial lessons, she often came out saying that this teacher was like one former teacher, or that teacher was like another. Because she'd had lessons from different folk, she was familiar and comfortable with different styles. </p>
<p>Ironically, one of the pieces she used at trial lessons was a Bach partita that she did eventually audition with. She learned it "classically" rather than Baroque, and one teacher in particular preferred Baroque. She learned that at her trial lesson, but did not attempt to switch styles for the audition. That is, in fact, who she is now studying with, and he has since made her re-learn the piece with Baroque bowing (and a Baroque bow). But it did NOT affect her audition results.</p>
<p>I think Binx makes a great point. The auditioners can and do see different interpretations (bowings and fingerings for string players!) that they would change if the student had learned the piece in their studio. For college auditions, they will primarily be assessing the over-all quality and level of playing, not nit-picking interpretive concerns - unless the performance is wildly off with no obvious sense of musicality or appropriate style!</p>
<p>S's concern was that teachers told him specific changes they felt should be made. He was afraid that if he brought in the work again and performed it without those changes, it would demonstrate either an inability to change or lack of desire to work with the teacher's expectations. </p>
<p>BTW, this is a never-ending (at least during student years) dilema of music study - as I'm sure many here have found. Case in point - S is in 2nd year at major stand-alone. Over Christmas break he began looking at a solo Bach partita that he hadn't studied previously, but did have bowings, fingerings and metronome markings from his pre-college teacher (who'd studied with Galamian at Juilliard). Over break he checked the 6 recordings of the work that we own. 5 used metronome markings that were consistent with those his pre-college teacher gave him. One performance (Vieuxtemps5 will guess it's Hilary Hahn's!) was significantly slower. S went with the majority on tempo. You guessed it, first lesson with teacher at school (also another Galamian student) the slower tempo was requested. S complied without complaint!</p>
<p>Binx, that's really neat that she gets to learn with a Baroque bow! I'm hoping S will be interested someday in playing around with "original" equipment, but right now I think that's my interest, not his!</p>
<p>ugh i hate how galamian people play bach...</p>
<p>my teacher just lets me do what I want, although his recordings of the bach are so romantic.</p>
<p>If you're going to do a sample lesson, and the person is a well known performer or well known pedagogue with a fairly consistent way of doing things, I wouldn't show up playing in a way that is contrary to what they like.</p>
<p>Some of these old russian trained or galamian people like Bach a certain way... same as Mozart. Initially I'd just try to avoid friction by playing something in a way that won't offend their sensibilities... and with a holy cow like Bach or Mozart, just play neutrally if you're opposed to the new yorky way of doing stuff.</p>