<p>What are your opinions on this? Do you think that it is fair for UT to automatically admit top 10% while neglecting to consider the different levels of rigor of programs at varying schools? What about ethnic affirmative action?</p>
<p>student01</p>
<p>Totally fair. They should keep doing it exactly this way forever.</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>Not fair, and they can’t continue to do it this way forever since the school will run out of room soon.</p>
<p>There’s a reason there’s currently legislation to change it. </p>
<p>I like California’s system for this kind of thing, but in my opinion we don’t have the right kind/amount of schools to do the same thing at the moment. And no, I don’t have any elaboration on that, nor have I thought about it much. :)</p>
<p>Needs some level of reform. i like a combination of rank/SAT score.</p>
<p>They are trying to change it right now. President Powers sent out a long report that you could probably find on the UT website. According to the report, (dont quote me word for word) by the next year or two, even if you are in the top 10% you might not get in or you might have to enroll in the summer, because the volume of top ten applicants, those not in top ten need not to apply. I believe they are changing it to where only 50% of the class will be accepted by top ten, and they will be chosen by highest rank first (top 1%, top 2%, top 3%, etc). I believe the report said that it will be about the top 7% instead of top 10% (again don’t quote me). The remaining 50% of teh class will be chosen with regard to other factors (gpa, sat/act scores, extracurricular, community service).</p>
<p>I agree that “SOMETHING” has to be done…or else, like many people are worried about…
UT won’t get a choice in its selection of students! </p>
<p>Personally though, about the current top 10% rule----- I think that if a person really wants to be in the top 10% at a competitive High School, they will put forth the extra effort necessary to get into it.
I come from a very competitive public school, one of the top in Texas.</p>
<p>After asking around class ranks and gpas of my peers, I’ve found that the top 10% cutoff was about…a 5.1 Academic Average (which only counts the core classes). That’s only a 91 average in all AP classes (my school weights AP classes 10 points higher than regular classes: ex: An 81 in AP Bio would equal a 91 in regular bio.</p>
<p>A 5.1 average is thus impossible for a student in all regular classes to achieve, as even if they get 100 in all their classes, it would only amount to a 90 in all AP classes, and only a 5.0 average. (This is where the competitiveness of my high school shows through, and this is where many parents would call foul, But AP classes really aren’t very hard… you just have to put some extra time in)</p>
<p>However, (now back to opinion stated above—)
I believe that if a student truly wants to be in the top 10%, they will cut back on their leisure time and procrastination, and go all out for school. Facebook, AIM, Naruto =P, and Video games are all wastes of time. I’ve got the feeling that many of the people who disapprove of the top 10% rule just like to complain, but don’t give much effort. I know, because I used to be one of them----Complaining about The rule but playing video games excessively on the weekends----I think The only people that have a right to complain are are those who have gone all out for their grades but cant get into the top 10%, but I hardly think thats possible, and I don’t think there are that many MONSTER schools out there. </p>
<p>This is my 2cents on the Top 10% rule…but my opinion might be skewed because I got in this year…(Not top 10%)</p>
<p>There is another component to the top 10% rule. There are High Schools where they do not add the 10 pts for each AP course or Dual Credit Courses. My daughters school is one. In her school, there are many kids in the top 10% who have never taken an advanced placement class, not on the distinguished graduation plan, and many of these kids with be at UT & A&M this fall.
Until all the high schools compute their grade pt averages the same, ranks their kids the same way, the top 10% rule is unfair.</p>
<p>klparker, your dd is competing against the kids in her class at her school, which counts all classes the same, so I don’t get what your saying. I would like a level of standardization to the way districts across the state weigh their grades, however. How confusing for colleges to try to decipher the difference between one district that grades on a 4.0 and one that grades on a 7.0 and everything in between!</p>
<p>Its definitely not good. The only people that like it are the people that go to crappy schools. I know someone who was number 300/600 at a compeditive highschool, transfered and now she is in the top 10 PEOPLE at the less compeditive school. Definitely not fair. And the the rule makes UT look bad.</p>
<p>Youdon’tsay… My daughter is taking dual anatomy on the campus of a University, has taking all AP courses, preAP classes throughout High School. She is on the Texas Scholars Program and distinguished graduation plan. Texas High Schools also have a recommended graduation plan - which consist of no AP courses and no Dual credit courses…
Do you agree that regular HS English is easier to get a good grade in than AP English
or regular high school Biology is easier than Dual Anatomy taken on a University campus?
So Suzzie Q takes the recommended program and easily makes all A’s her entire high school career landing her in the top 10%, while my child takes all AP courses and may fall a few points below Suzzie Q… but lands just out of the top 10%</p>
<p>Get it? My daughters High School classes are not weighted, so no extra points are added for the more rigerous course work… My daughter is ending up with 27 College Credits and is in the top 12% of her class… Suzzie Q is top 10% - and going to UT.</p>
<p>klparker312: THAT is very unfair.</p>
<p>Which also evinces the problem with basing only on class ranking: there is nothing whatsoever standardized about it. As someone earlier in the thread said, counting SAT or ACT scores in the mix as well would help iron this out.</p>
<p>Wow, that really sucks klparker312 and I feel your pain. :(</p>
<p>Yes, a combination of class rank AND test scores would be lovely!
Top 10% with at least a 2000 SAT or 30 ACT. :)</p>
<p>Top 10% will disappear as soon as that number pushes out the number of kids Deloss Dodds can admit to his sports programs…</p>
<p>I go to a high school in Austin, Texas that is very, very competitive. I would say that none of the other schools in the city can even compare.</p>
<p>Top 10% rule is definitely not fair (in the perspective of a student who is comfortably within 3%)</p>
<p>I’m from Louisiana, and I flew home from Houston with a young man heading to LSU because he couldn’t get into UT because of that top 10 percent rule. He had great grades, good test scores, but was unfortunate enough to be at a high school with a bunch of geniuses.</p>
<p>We in Louisiana are looking at LSU possibly going this way as well. LSU is raising their admission standards, which is to their credit, but a lot of really good students are now heading to UL Lafayette, which is actually maybe a good thing, they’ll see a different part of Louisiana at a very different campus and definitely a different culture. </p>
<p>There is also a trend of making TOPS need based. TOPS is our local program which, at varying levels, offers scholarship incentives for our students to attend local state colleges. </p>
<p>All of these things combined will lead to our top students leaving our respective states and heading for other parts of the country, which in turn will hurt the economy of our respective states. </p>
<p>I think as a resident of a state, whether Louisiana or Texas or Timbuktu, we pay taxes, and our children should all be offered a college education at a reasonable price, ie, a state school. It is then our choice whether we take this opportunity, or pay for a private school out of our own pocket, with hopefully financial aid. Much like here in Louisiana, many of us can send our kids to a public school, all the way up through high school, at no cost, but many of us choose to send our children to private high schools. Even though we pay taxes, we don’t get any kind of voucher to reimburse us for our tax money that is used to educate other’s children. </p>
<p>One might argue on this 10 percent rule: why are my taxes only being used to educate smart kids?</p>
<p>Texans’ taxes go to every school in Texas, but the legislature as of late hasn’t sent much tax money to ANY college–hence rising tuition prices.</p>
<p>The top ten law has outlived its original intent–to ensure diversity after admissions preferences for underrepresented minorities were stricken down in the Hopwood case. Since the Supreme Court struck down that decision in the Grutter case, the top ten law has become irrelevant. The university may use race in its decisions and I believe that they already do use race as a factor in non-top ten admissions. So in that case, I think the law has outlived its original purpose.</p>
<p>That being said, I do believe that the top ten law is good for Texas. The school’s academic reputation and standards have improved quite a bit since the advent of the Top Ten law, culminating with a Top 15 ranking in the world in the Shanghai university rankings. I do believe the quality of students at UT on the whole has improved, because even if they aren’t coming from the same backgrounds as better-educated students, they tend to work hard at school.</p>
<p>In all honesty, the vast majority of Texas students don’t have access to quality suburban public schools and private schools–they must go to their zoned public school because it’s the only option either geographically or financially. These students are the ones who would suffer most from a change in the law–simply because they didn’t have the same academic and extracurricular offerings as suburbanites do. The top ten law gives these students a fair chance for admission to UT and ensures the geographic and socioeconomic diversity which UT simply didn’t have before the top ten law was instituted.</p>
<p>Is the law perfect? No. But no matter how you make admissions, the law is going to upset a significant number of Texans. Pretty much every kid who applies to Texas is qualified to attend the school, and you could come up with multiple scales which rank the applicants in all sorts of different ways. Until the state expands UT’s enrollment or increases funding for more top tier schools, the problem wil continue in one way or another.</p>
<p>Has anyone heard the status of the bill before the Texas legislature to allow UT to cap it’s top 10%-ers? I believe it had passed out of the Senate, but was awaiting the House to vote (and they were trying to squash it before it got to the floor). Any hope on this?</p>
<p>thanks!
Mom of a 15%-er at an awesome high school</p>
<p>I don’t think SAT/ACT scores would iron this out any better. Some kids can pay for test prep services that greatly affect their scores. It doesn’t mean they will be better students or bring any value to the campus. </p>
<p>We have gotten so caught up in wanting kids to “add up” to some number. I think that they should release Texas schools from all of this nonsense, and allow them to select their students from their pool of applicants that takes all factors into consideration. Personally, a student who takes all advanced classes and does nothing else on their campus or in their community is not more valuable than a student who takes regular classes, but organizes or participates in school or community activities.</p>
<p>My son takes a balance between advanced classes and regular classes. He plays 4 sports, participates in Student Council, National Honor Society, and a Mentor Program. However he is just outside (4 students) of the Top 10%. Does that make him a less valuable student?</p>
<p>I went to UT in the 90s and they had the freedom to put together an academic class that balanced students of high academic caliber and diversity. I think the lawsuits of the 90s were misguided and complained about a system that tried to create positive and diverse learning environments. Now in exchange, this Top 10 nonsense has created more headaches than it solved because Top 10 students have a sense of entitlement to college spots and the reality is that the number of high school Top 10 students exceeds the spots at Texas AM and UT which are the top state schools. You don’t hear any issues of Sam Houston or UH or Texas State as it relates to Top 10. Everyone wants to go to UT…but that’s unrealistic.</p>
<p>People who don’t live in Texas won’t fully understand why it isn’t fair. There are a lot of very good schools and there are a lot of very, very bad schools in Texas. My school district has 2 of the top 5 best public schools in Texas, but outside of our district one high school is notorious for being the worst school in central Texas. Kids in the top 30% have purposely transferred to the school in order to be in the top 10%.</p>