Top 36 Computer Science Depts. see a 20% enrollment drop

<p>Does anyone actually have the list of top 36 CS departments, or a comparable list of top 50 CS programs?</p>

<p>As a CS grad of way-too-many-years-ago, married to another CS grad of way-too-many-years-ago, I would like to say that the field is still wide open based on our experience.</p>

<p>I was surprised when I graduated that there was such a wide array of job opportunities. What I mean is there is a big difference between being a 'grunt programmer' at a financial institution and being a researcher / developer at a software or defense company. Outsourcing is best suited for the 'grunt programming' and even that is fraught with problems.</p>

<p>While the pay was great, I decided I didin't want to develop missile systems upon graduation. I have been able to negotiation job situations to fit my lifestyle for 25 years (including doing challenging development work at home as a 'working-mother'). Now I select the projects that I want to work on and feel that I am doing work that 'makes a difference'. That's just what is important to me. </p>

<p>We will always need talented CS professionals in the USA, and personally, I'd like to see a lot more of these that grew up here. (When I was in grad school, I think I was one of three students that didn't have to cross an ocean to get to the school from my hometown). </p>

<p>The field is tough, my S (senior in HS) looks at what it takes to finish a project for AP CS and what it takes to finish an English or even Stats project and thinks that perhaps Business would be a fine major. Computers are not forgiving. There is no room for 'fudging'. </p>

<p>UIUC boasts a 95% placement rate for their grads, 'with a majority placed prior to graduation'. My sense is that companies compete for these grads. </p>

<p>It's a great field for someone that wants to do challenging work. And if we don't get our kids to continue in this field, the work will defacto move to other countries.</p>

<p>Here's a link to the 'ranking' site</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cra.org/statistics/nrcstudy2/rankcs.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cra.org/statistics/nrcstudy2/rankcs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The data is dated (1993), but I think the basic list of programs is a good foundation.</p>

<p>Anecdotally, we think of Stanford, Berkeley, UWisc, Cornell, Princeton, UMich for computer engineering, UWash coming up with Msoft money, UTAustin, Carnegie Mellon for UI, and yes, UIUC, as being good places to look. I'm sure were we to find someone at MIT or Caltech we'd be happy:). This is just anecdotal however. I do not know what any actual rankings are.</p>

<p>Just read the rankings. Hmm. V. close to my anecdotal list. How reassuring.</p>

<p>Thank you both! Wife and I are both engineers, raising two CS kids. But lots of engineering lessons apply to CS.</p>

<p>I'm trying to find a more recent list, specifically geared (if possible) to the sub-field of artificial intelligence (S's passion).</p>

<p>Any thoughts?</p>

<p>Here are some lists from AAAI:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.aaai.org/AITopics/html/resourcST.html#courses%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.aaai.org/AITopics/html/resourcST.html#courses&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Isn't there a huge difference between the prospect of finding employment and finding GUARANTEED employment? IMHO, the latter is a mere blanket to shelter the mediocre and the non-driven individual. The founders of Google -and many other companies- did not pursue a dream based on DOL projections and monster.com statistics ... they created a new environment and a new realm for their ideas. </p>

<p>While I easily understand the fear of outsourcing that paralyzes adults in the twilight of their career, it is rather silly for college graduates to try to project what the market will be in 2030. After all, what were the projections of the world of technology in 1980? Did anyone really project that a simple device such as a fax machine would become ubiquitous in homes and become a mere afterthought years later? Did anyone predict in 1980 that he might be working on cell phone technology for Nokia in Richardson, Texas as opposed to working for E-Systems a few miles away?</p>

<p>When analyzed properly, there are few careers that offer guaranteed of current and future employment -except for nursing and union leaders. If CS majors worry, what can be said of people who graduate with degrees in Russian Literature or Medieval History?</p>

<p>xiggi,</p>

<p>Certainly you are correct. I guess I look at it from the perspective of being able to find satisfying work in the field pursued. If I'm entering a college and, in fact, prospects for employment are dismal in the chosen subject area (e.g. teaching when I was in school), I might select a different course of study unless that was my sole passion in life. </p>

<p>Just like some here argue for 'most value for your $$' in selecting a college and others argue for 'best college...period', I think choosing a major is motivated by different goals in different families. Job opportunity is a factor given different weight by different people.</p>

<p>Every spring, after MIT freshmen declare a major, the MIT student newspaper does an article on the most popular majors. They have always attributed the drop in CS majors (drop being relative, as EECS is still the most popular major at MIT) to the immediate, rather than the long-term, economic situation.</p>

<p>Is it really all that surprising that there were fewer CS majors in the years immediately following the dot-com bust?</p>

<p>since a few happily employed CS types have posted, let me give a link presenting the other side of a coin. Its testimony to Congress by a University of California CS professor; the article is titled "Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage" and can be read at <a href="http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Interesting article. Dated 2002. During the recession. </p>

<p>Besides, I was hoping it was clear that what we seem to be seeing is just the CS labor market hitting the inflection point of the S curve, not the end of CS as we know it. No one claims the boom times have come again, just that there's a growing market that outsourcing and other over hyped threats have hardly touched.</p>

<p>"Desperate shortage" is a word I've never have used anyway.</p>

<p>Badgolfer, while I agree that companies grossly exaggerated the need for H1B visas, I also have been one of the people rejecting all but 2 percent of applicants. I agree with the testimony that companies exaggerated the need for the visas and took advantage of the fact that these people would work for lesser compensation packages than us that grew up here.</p>

<p>BUT, so many applicants AREN'T qualified for a specific position. Most of the applicants don't have a 4-year degree, let alone a degree in a field related to the position offered. I get resumes from people that have '2 years experience with Excel...good with computers' for a Java programming position. We routinely give basic programming tests prior to even bringing a candidate in. Now this is a set of four basic programs (one step up from 'hello world') that they could in fact 'cheat' on. We eliminate half of the people that look like they might be qualified, based on their resume, with this basic step. Also, I have no problem hiring an older employee, however I do have a problem hiring an older employee that hasn't kept their skills up-to-date. Part of the issue is the 'entitlement' that some folks bring with them. I'd be interested in seeing a statistic that shows the percentage of 'IT professionals' that have a 4-year-degree or a graduate degree. </p>

<p>OK, end of rant...sorry.</p>

<p>Alumother, here ya go on the battery: </p>

<p><a href="http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/batteries-0208.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2006/batteries-0208.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Cool - ten characters.</p>

<p>Have any of you professionals in the field seen a current list of CS departments ranked by research or other excellence measure in AI?</p>

<p>The Washington CS department posted these lists from US News:</p>

<p>Top AI Grad Departments
<a href="http://lazowska.cs.washington.edu/usnews2003/ai.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://lazowska.cs.washington.edu/usnews2003/ai.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Top CS Grad Departments
<a href="http://lazowska.cs.washington.edu/usnews2003/cs.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://lazowska.cs.washington.edu/usnews2003/cs.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>These lists are actually not that different. I just got finished applying for PhD programs in an AI related area so if you PM me any questions I might be able to point you places.</p>