<p>storch, you seem particular about the student quality. I don’t think that would be a good gauge to assess the better school for FE. You should also check out the program, curriculum, faculty, teaching methods, quality of products, employment prospects, etc. </p>
<p>As for selectivity level, it’s understandable that Princeton’s would have a very low acceptance rate since they only accept 25 students per class and in in the NE. Haas accepts 65 students per class, that’s almost triple the size of Princeton’s. But I don’t think there is any difference between the quality of student body. I’ve check out the resumes of the students/grads of both schools and they look pretty identical. The average age of the students at both schools is within the range of 25-to-28 and almost 100% have solid experience. Therefore, it’s futile to compare the quality of their student bodies. It would be like comparing the student bodies of Yale and Princeton undergrad.</p>
<p>Sorry to interject again but would anyone possibly know the solution to the above post I wrote? Political Science/Humanities majors, how would they go about this program? Thank you again.</p>
<p>baller4lyfe, based on Haas students profile, you won’t stand a chance getting admitted if you don’t have solid background in maths. Even those who were quant jocks that were detached from practicing careers that require maths heavily were advised to brush up themselves with advance maths. Here’s what I gathered from Haas’ website:</p>
<p>*Do you recommend preparatory math classes?</p>
<p>For students who have not taken a math course in more than 5 years, we do recommend some type of refresher course in order to excel in the program. If you are required to take a math course as part of conditional acceptance to the program, we will accept the grades from any accredited college or university. There are some high quality courses offered online through the following programs (please note that these are the ones that we are familiar with and that courses can be taken at any accredited institution):</p>
<p>Columbia Video Network
Johns Hopkins University
University of Washingon</p>
<p>We also offer the 30-hour foundation math course at Haas, which can be taken in the classroom or online.</p>
<p>For people who have taken the prerequisite courses some years ago, self-study is advised in addition to the foundation math course. One very good resource for self-study guidelines is offered through MIT’s Open Courseware Program.
*
[Frequently</a> Asked Questions - Master’s in Financial Engineering Program - Haas School of Business, UC Berkeley](<a href=“Master of Financial Engineering Program | Berkeley Haas”>Master of Financial Engineering Program | Berkeley Haas)</p>
<p>RML, thanks for the insight, I was actually browsing that site a bit earlier throughout these posts. This isn’t a career change just yet, just a prospecting idea down the road. One issue I was concerned though was with not standing a chance with already-graduated finance, econ, or math majors. I understand this. On what you referenced, it says that Haas would take into consideration any math/econ courses you take:</p>
<p>"If you are required to take a math course as part of conditional acceptance to the program, we will accept the grades from any accredited college or university.</p>
<p>So, does this mean those prospective students who are creating an alternative transcript at a Community College (for example) are considered for acceptance, but in no way preferred because the already university graduates with quant backgrounds are readily prepared more than the now “career-changer”?</p>
<p>That’s what I wanted to clear up. Are they implying that non-math or non-finance majors shouldn’t even bother with this route as they were humanities majors and they really truly only admit those with a BA in finance?</p>
<p>sorry; i can’t answer your question. i think it’s best to email Haas directly if you want a definitive answer to your question. </p>
<p>when I said “you don’t have a chance if your undergrad is polsci or history”, i was actually basing that on the profiles of the admitted students. If you would go through their resumes, you’d know that about 75% of the admitted students have grad degree, 35% have Phds, 100% have at least 4-5 years relevant work experience, and no one has actually have a polsci or humanities as undergrad major - about 65% have engineering majors and the rest have either economics, finance or business undergrad but with further studies that are maths related/heavy. this is just what I’ve gathered from reading the MFE students and grads profiles and I could be wrong about this.</p>
<p>Well, to be fair, it should be pointed out that you are comparing Berkeley numbers for 2008 vs. Princeton numbers for 2009. 2009 has clearly been a tough year for all finance sector hiring, presumably Berkeley included. Princeton apparently (and impressively) placed 100% of its graduates up until 2008.</p>
<p>The Bendheim Center for Finance has an almost 100 percent placement record, with every student finding permanent employment through 2008. 90% of the 2009 graduating students have received offers of full-time employment.</p>
<pre><code>* 100% of students sought MFE internships (65/65)
100% of students seeking internships held internships (65/65)
100% of internships were paid (65/65)
Average Internship Salary: $7,562/mo
Median Internship Salary: $7,917/mo
</code></pre>
<p>Princeton</p>
<p>90% - placement for full-time positions
95% - placement for 2009 summer internships</p>
<p>Average Compensation - no data provided. must have been lower than Berkeley’s.
Based on that data alone, looks like Berkeley is superior to Princeton. At least, on this specific area.</p>
<p>Actually, I’m not sure that it must have been lower. The 2008 total compensation figures for both schools are highly comparable: Berkeley’s first-year comp being $153k, Princeton $140k, but year-end bonus seemed not to have been included in Princeton’s figures, but probably was in Berkeley’s case. </p>
<p>The average first year starting salary of our June 2008 graduates was $140,000. These numbers include only salary and guaranteed bonus. In addition, most people receive an additional bonus which is determined based on their performance and that of their group at the end of the year. This additional amount often represents 10 to 25 percent of the base salary for rookies (and often more for those with prior work experience) and is not included in the figures above.</p>
<p>So if Princeton’s 2008 comp figures are highly comparable to Berkeley’s, and arguably even higher, then I see no reason to believe that Princeton’s 2009 must be lower. They might be lower, but then again, they might not. We don’t know.</p>
<p>I meant, Berkeley’s 95% full-time placement is better than Princeton’s 90% placement especially considering that there were almost trice as much Berkeley graduates than there were Princeton grads seeking full-time employment. </p>
<p>anyway, I’ve always thought that it’s either CMU or NYU that’s Berkeley’s fiercest rival for MFE, since their programs are more established than Princeton’s. I have this impression that Princeton’s biggest strength is its superior student body, but looking at the profile of Berkeley’s student body, it appears that there really isn’t any difference. I could be wrong on this though.</p>
<p>As I stated, my impression differs a bit RML, and this is a world that I am very much a part of. The GlobalDerivatives ranking is way out of date, top ten in a trading magazine means nothing as Berkeley is undoubtedly one of the best for this, so of course they are in the top ten.</p>
<p>Also, In prior years Princeton took ~60 students and still had a much lower acceptance rate than Berkeley. I would compare this argument to Wharton vs HBS for Business Schools. They are similar and both very good, but I would give Princeton (HBS) the edge.</p>
<p>Take math courses at the best school you can find, and if you do well you will be able to go somewhere. You probably only need about 6 classes (although more would be better as some will have physics PhDs and the like). To get into Berkeley you will have to be very good, but there are plenty of other schools out there that you can look at in near infinite gradations of quality. Google the following:</p>
<p>masters in financial engineering
masters in computation finance
masters in mathematical finance
master of finance
masters in finance
master of science in finance
masters of financial economics</p>
<p>Spend some time reading about all of these programs and you will get a better idea of whats best for you. The general finance ones often have little or no math req. FE has quite a bit.</p>
<p>That’s not how I see it. I’d rather that you’d liken Berkeley to HBS - a larger program with superb student body, very high enrollment yield and excellent employment rate, and Princeton to Stanford GSB - a small program with superb student body and excellent employment rate. </p>
<p>The Wharton of this program (MFE) is probably NYU if not CMU.</p>
<p>Thanks so much for your insight, I appreciate it. I just wanted to know, since these classes would be taken after undergrad, how would AdComs view them in light of respective applicants who are quant/finance degrees from undergrad? Isn’t this a bit unrealistic in terms of admission, taking several math/finance classes to prepare for their program, when they have undergrads readily available in the applicant pile?</p>
<p>I am just wondering how this would be done for career-changers. Ideally, I would prefer Haas; however, this is still after undergrad when I, being the poli sci major I was, did not take any finance/math classes.</p>
<p>So, in terms of Haas admission, would that still work if you take the necessary classes and do well in them for AdComs to say this Career-Changer is/seems very fit for the program?</p>
<p>And this isn’t a spur-of-the-moment change, I was always considering engineering/financial business or economics during undergrad, and now it’s beginning to develop to some point at least. </p>
<p>Also; do you firmly believe the MBA is the “better way” to go in terms of job prospects? The intern stipend awarded to MFE candidates at Haas by the month is amazing! Did you see those statistics?</p>
<p>baller4lyfe;
Either route has its respective advantages and disadvantages. For you, on the surface, it sounds like you might be able to do an MBA w/o any extra classes. For most jobs the MBA will be better. For quant jobs a MFE is the way to go, if you definitely want a quant job then go for it, but realize that you will have less options there. Its totally dependant on your interests/strengths.</p>
<p>In terms of where you could go for a MFE with some extra math classes at a CC or extension program: obviously you will be at a disadvantage relative to the masters in stats from Yale or the math PhD from CMU (and I assure you you will compete with people like this for spots at a top MFE school). </p>
<p>As far as adcoms go, these things can be pretty random. You would certainly be different which could play to your advantage. Hard to say though.</p>
<p>To summarize I would advise an MBA if you want a general finance job (Banking, corp Fin, etc…) and an MFE or the like if you’re set on being a quant.</p>
<p>Storch, I just received word that doing a pattern like this after undergrad from a social science major (enrolling in so many math/econ/fin classes, plus the level of amazingly insane money to do this, it’s getting unbelievable), would still put the candidate at virtually no chance for Haas when the applicant pool is already filled with comp. sci, econ, finance majors and the like, all who have stayed with their field and already have the stats and even beyond to be admitted.</p>
<p>Is it true, then, that, unlike a “Postbac program” offered to non-medicine students after undergrad to remarkably get a great chance in med school, this route is different in that no official program provides the necessary courses, and therefore you will virtually have wasted all the time and above all money to pursue something that, years later, did you no good?</p>