<p>Jack Bauer thinks that hating minorities is stupid. Everytime you hate a minority, Jack Bauer kills a terrorist.</p>
<p>Wait...is that bad? :p</p>
<p>Whoops I made another error, though Earl Warren served recently he attended during the second decade of the twentieth century.</p>
<p>Noone famous has graduated here since the 60's and 70's; maybe its because they havent had time. Maybe its because the undergraduate quality has gone down so much and it just doesn't produce any really top tier talent anymore, just a bunch of middling positions at big companies at best.</p>
<p>I remember a year or two ago the Regent's award or whatever the universities highest undergrad award went to a girl whose only activities was editing a paper and had a 3.96. She had nothing else of distinction. Berkeley just doesn't produce the leaders of tomorrow anymore. Even when it did it produced the worst ones like Robert MacNamara and Earl Warren.</p>
<p>You blind berkeley loyalists can bite it. I hold the declining quality of this school at fault.</p>
<p>I thought it was that a terrorist got his wings...</p>
<p>What about Leave it to Beaver? Say what you will about Berkeley, but don't you dare spoil the legacy of Jerry Mathers.</p>
<p>Some distinguished Cal grads from the 1980s or later-</p>
<p>Scott Adams, MBA 1986 - creator of Dilbert
Oren Jacob, B.S. 1992, M.S. 1995 - Pixar Animation Studios technical director </p>
<p>Nicolle Devenish, B.A. 1996 - White House Communications Director, 2004-Present </p>
<p>Leroy Chiao, B.S. 1983 - First Chinese-American astronaut
Tamara E. Jernigan, M.S. 1985 - astronaut
Rex Walheim, B.S. 1984 - astronaut
Mary Weber, Ph.D. 1988 - astronaut </p>
<p>Charles Giancarlo, EECS BS 1980 - Chief technology officer of Cisco Systems
Bill Joy, M.S. 1982, co-founder of Sun Microsystems </p>
<p>Jason Kidd - professional basketball player with the New Jersey Nets
Staciana Stitts, 2003, - Olympic swimmer, gold medalist in 2000 Summer Olympics in Sydney, Australia
Mark Henderson, 1991 - swimmer, gold medalist at the 1996 Summer Olympics where he broke the world record in the 400 meter medley swimming relay
Tom Anderson,-creator and founding member of Myspace.com. </p>
<p>Losers! ALL OF THEM! Especially the astronauts!</p>
<p>^^^
[quote]
Noone famous has graduated here since the 60's and 70's
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yup. NOBODY.</p>
<p>Who knew that the founders of Levi's, The Gap, Powerbar, Bechtel, Kaiser Permanente, and Morgan Stanley Dean Witter went to Berkeley? Thanks for the link. I guess it wasn't just The Beaver.</p>
<p>Tom! I totally forgot about Tom.</p>
<p>Y'know, I hear that Bill Joy guy is a total wanker. I mean, Sun Microsystems? What kind of dumb no-name company is that.</p>
<p>And gold medal winning Olympiads? LOSERS.</p>
<p>LOL. I said since the 60's and 70's didn't I?</p>
<p>And none of them are leaders. Just minor bigwhigs in a company and a few astronauts. Does anyone care about going into space anymore? No.</p>
<p>There are certainly not presidents or supreme court justices or nobel prize winners like the kind the big ivies produce and berkeley was capable of producing before the hippeies came (macnamara and warren and whatnot).</p>
<p>Once the protestant work ethic disappeared and got replaced by hippie idiocy, bye bye bye undergrad prestige.</p>
<p>My point remains completely valid.</p>
<p>Nice try though.</p>
<p>Please post the presidents that have graduated from Harvard since the 60's or 70's. Or Stanford. Or MIT. Or Caltech. Or Columbia. Or...I could go on for a while, but I'll stop. I believe Yale and Georgetown are the only schools that have produced presidents in that time. So for the record, those are the only two school worth their salt!</p>
<p>"Once the protestant work ethic disappeared and got replaced by hippie idiocy, bye bye bye undergrad prestige."</p>
<p>And yet it was the best school you got into. What does that say about you?</p>
<p>Yep, I'm not that good. I learned a lot here how much you get punished if you're lazy. At least I don't harbor any illusions about my achievements or my soon-to-be alumni school. I can deal with the fact I'm not all that great.</p>
<p>Senators, Appelate Court Judges, Governors, Clarke Medal Winners, Field Medal Winners, etc, CEO's of fortune 500 companies.</p>
<p>These are the biggest awards in their field, and very few if any Berkeley undergraduate has ever gone on to win or accomplish such things in the last generation.</p>
<p>and I forgot to add that Princeton has always had one of the best physics programs around. So much so, that Albert Einstein made Princeton his home after he settled in the United States and taught there and stayed there for the rest of his life.</p>
<p>Good point, d-a-d, regarding the U.S. needing to turn out more scientists and engineers.</p>
<p>Hey, I meant to put my post #195 right after post #159 and #160. Don't know what happened.</p>
<p>LiberalCensors,</p>
<p>Wah wah wah... Berkeley sucks and all I'm gonna do is whine about it. Wah wah wah.</p>
<p>I see lots of *****ing, but I don't see any action. Way to go.</p>
<p>
[quote]
There are certainly not presidents or supreme court justices or nobel prize winners like the kind the big ivies produce and berkeley was capable of producing before the hippeies came (macnamara and warren and whatnot).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yup. It's all the hippies fault. None of this has to do with prop 13, the resulting decline in secondary education, further competiton from up and comers. Nope.</p>
<p>Do you ever talk in non-superlatives?</p>
<p>sakky:</p>
<p>You make an interesting point that was driven home in Business Week a few weeks ago:</p>
<p>Math is becoming more important in business as decision making tool. When I started my career as a lowly staff tax accountant at the now infamous Arthur Andersen in the 1980s, accounting majors and law school grads (such as myself) made up the vast majority of recruits. </p>
<p>As the Big 8 moved into consulting work more and more people were recruited from the science and engineering community because of their math and other science / engineering skills that could be used in business consulting. </p>
<p>My observation is that for a lot of today's science and engineering grads, the temptation to take on what may be perceived as a sexier job in business consulting, for a large international firm, is preferable to the standard engineering or science job they might otherwise start at after graduating. </p>
<p>Of course, an engineer or scientist who works for a CPA firm cannot become a partner in a CPA firm unless they go to accounting school and pass the CPA exam. So, there is a built in glass ceiling for them if they choose to work for one of these firms. This is not to say that they cannot take the experience they acquire at one of these firms and start their own consulting firm. </p>
<p>The biggest problem I see with science and engineering types trying to parlay their skills into a career as a business consultant right out of college is that they don't have any actual experience as engineers or scientists so they don't actually know what it is like to be an engineer or scientist in the real world. In any profession, this puts you at a significant disadvantage because there is a huge difference between what you learn in school and what you learn in real life.</p>
<p>Getting back to the debate about whether UC Berkeley, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Georgetown, UCLA, Caltech, or for that matter, any other college or university is the best, the worst, the most elite, etc.; my observation is [and I just know this is going to get you (sakky) all shook up and excited] is that it really doesn't matter where you go to college. I have met more than a few successful people in my time in terms of wealth, power, status, etc. who either didn't go to college, didn't graduate from college, or went to a small school. </p>
<p>If my memory serves me; a gentleman named Steve Jobs (whom I do not know personally) dropped out of Reed College (a very good school where the President of the school refuses to participate in the U.S. New college ranking farce); there is a gentleman named Paul Otellini who works as the President and CEO of a small company in Santa Clara called Intel, his undrgraduate degree is from USF and his graduate degree is from UC Berkeley; there is another gentleman whom I do know, and have done work for, runs one of the largest companies in California and he has a Bachelor's degree from a CSU; many of the partners in top law and accounting firms I know graduated from small colleges and non-Ivy law schools. Of course Saaky, in your Ivy League fantasy world; USF, the CSUs, and Reed College are little know nothing schools. However, in the real world, these schools and schools like them turn out some of America's top leaders. Didn't Ronald Reagan (you know, the guy who was POTUS for 2 terms) go to a little school called Eureka College? Maybe you have heard of Whittier College where Nixon went? Probably not because, in your world they don't count. </p>
<p>There is no sure-fire formula for success and any parent who is pumping their kid's head with the notion that a degree from University A or College A equals success or advantage is doing their kid a big disservice. The only things that insures success in business, life, or any other endeavor is raw determination, talent, character, a good family life, and loving what you do to earn a living.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If my memory serves me; a gentleman named Steve Jobs (whom I do not know personally) dropped out of Reed College (a very good school where the President of the school refuses to participate in the U.S. New college ranking farce); there is a gentleman named Paul Otellini who works as the President and CEO of a small company in Santa Clara called Intel, his undrgraduate degree is from USF and his graduate degree is from UC Berkeley; there is another gentleman whom I do know, and have done work for, runs one of the largest companies in California and he has a Bachelor's degree from a CSU; many of the partners in top law and accounting firms I know graduated from small colleges and non-Ivy law schools. Of course Saaky, in your Ivy League fantasy world; USF, the CSUs, and Reed College are little know nothing schools. However, in the real world, these schools and schools like them turn out some of America's top leaders. Didn't Ronald Reagan (you know, the guy who was POTUS for 2 terms) go to a little school called Eureka College? Maybe you have heard of Whittier College where Nixon went? Probably not because, in your world they don't count.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yeah, and pardon me, but where did the richest man in the world go to college? Granted he dropped out, but at least he went to some college. Hmm, the name of that school seems to escape me at the moment.</p>
<p>Or how about the most powerful man in the world - the man who just got elected twice. Where did he go for undergrad and for B-school? Can't remember, please jog my memory. Or, and how about the 2 gentlemen he ran against in 2000 and 2004 - where exactly did they go for undergrad? </p>
<p>Look, nobody is saying that Berkeley is a bad school. But let's give credit where credit is due. Like UCLAri said, Harvard and Yale are Harvard and Yale. Lots of students at Berkeley, including many of the engineers, wish they were going to Harvard instead, however, very few students at Harvard wish they were going to Berkeley. That's why Harvard wins the cross-admit battles with every school, MIT included. That's my point. </p>
<p>
[quote]
There is no sure-fire formula for success and any parent who is pumping their kid's head with the notion that a degree from University A or College A equals success or advantage is doing their kid a big disservice. The only things that insures success in business, life, or any other endeavor is raw determination, talent, character, a good family life, and loving what you do to earn a living.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Now don't you see the paradox in what you just said. You had previously written a whole bunch of posts saying how great Berkeley is, and now you are saying that it doesn't really matter where you go to school. These two concepts are mutually exclusive. If it doesn't really matter where you go to school, then there is no reason to prefer Berkeley over, say, San Francisco State. </p>
<p>If you believe that Berkeley is better than most other schools out there, and certainly better than all of the other public schools in the state, then you are inherently subscribing to a philosophy that school quality does matter. So if you believe that Berkeley is better than, say, San Francisco State (which is really a no-brainer to me), and that the difference in quality between those two schools is important, then you have to agree that there may be other schools that are better than Berkeley, and the difference in quality in that respect may also be important. </p>
<p>The truth is, at the undergraduate level, Berkeley is probably not as good as HYPSMC. However, despite its flaws, Berkeley is still clearly one of the finest public undergrad schools in the country. And at the PhD level, as I've said countless times, Berkeley can stand up to anyone. </p>
<p>So what's so bad about admitting that Harvard is a more desirable undergrad school than is Berkeley? Or admitting that lots of Berkeley undergrads would rather be at Harvard? Even a lot of MIT students admit that they'd rather be at Harvard. Heck, a lot of UCLA and UCDavis students wish they were going to Berkeley. It's the same thing.</p>