<p>I'm looking to go into business in college. What are the "real" top schools. I know there are lists out there, but colleges pay for their rankings on some of them. Which schools are really the best schools that have the most successful graduates in business?</p>
<p>Wharton is the best. Then you have...</p>
<p>NYU Stern (esp. in finance)
UMich Ross
MIT Sloan (esp. quantitative/modeling)
CMU Tepper (same as Sloan)
UVA McIntire
Cal Berk Haas
UNC-CH
UT-Austin McComb
USC Marshall
Cornell
Indiana-Bloomington Kelley</p>
<p>An economics degree from a top school, however, will serve you just as well as a business degree. The only thing an undergrad business degree is really good for is if you want to go to Wall Street, where once again, an econ degree will do just fine.</p>
<p>Dartmouth and Northwestern not only have great business schools, but they have solid undergraduate preparation for Wall Street.</p>
<p>Investments firms can't get enough of Duke either.</p>
<p>Amendment to DMC's post: Dartmouth and Northwestern have great graduate business schools. This is the case with a lot of elites - a top MBA/PhD program, but no undergrad school. Undergrad business isn't nearly as big a deal as some people think.</p>
<p>"but colleges pay for their rankings on some of them"</p>
<p>I don't think so. Which rankings are you speaking of?</p>
<p>" The only thing an undergrad business degree is really good for is if you want to go to Wall Street, where once again, an econ degree will do just fine."</p>
<p>I just want to point out that undergrad business degrees aren't necessarily good for Wall St. unless you go to one of the top undergrad business schools and major in finance. I agree that econ majors at top schools fare just as well as undergrad business students majoring in finance. </p>
<p>Undergrad business schools are actually better for the specialized business functions like accounting, management information systems, marketing, operations management, or corporate finance. Those majors specifically focus on the specialized activities that corporations carry out. You generally won't find a large corporation like GE hiring an econ major for an internal accounting position. So what I mean is that undergrad business prgorams set you up for a good path leading to large commercial corporations like GE, Proctor & Gamble, Big Four Accounting firms, Commerical Banks, Target, etc. </p>
<p>With regard to ibanking and mangement consulting, recruiting is narrowly focused on the very top undergrad business programs and other elite universities.</p>
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Undergrad business schools are actually better for the specialized business functions like accounting, management information systems, marketing, operations management, or corporate finance. Those majors specifically focus on the specialized activities that corporations carry out. You generally won't find a large corporation like GE hiring an econ major for an internal accounting position. So what I mean is that undergrad business prgorams set you up for a good path leading to large commercial corporations like GE, Proctor & Gamble, Big Four Accounting firms, Commerical Banks, Target, etc.
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<p>While that's true, people should keep in mind that they're often competing with MBAs for those positions. I've always thought the best path to success in the business world is a liberal arts education followed by an MBA from a top grad school.</p>
<p>what's good for marketing and what is good for management?</p>
<p>Oh, okay. I understand where you're coming from bananainpyjamas. I was mainly referring to entry level positions at large corporations, which is often where recent undergrads end up if they go the corporate route. People with an MBA won't be looking for the entry-level stuff that recent undergrads usually land.</p>
<p>Banana, it depends on what you want to do. If you want to go into accounting, there is no way in hell your best path is a lib arts degree. In fact, unless that lib arts degree is from a good school, your career is dead. If you want to do marketing, you're better off being a marketing major than accounting. Although marketing may be the easiest business major I can think of, there are still things that marketing students learn that give them an edge over a lib arts major. Lib arts majors are at the very bottom of the applicant pool for business jobs. If you want to work on Wall Street, the best major is actually engineering (more specifically I.E./O.R.). This is especially true if you want to be a quant, but still holds because engineers hold superior math skills that could be applied in many wall st. positions. What superior skill do Liberal Arts majors (except of course for econ) hold that would on average make a recruiter want to risk taking someone unfamiliar with business over an average business student? Nothing. You develop no real skills or knowledge that can be applied in the business world. Yes, you have read a bit more books, saw more plays, read more sociological studies, but you haven't learned much that your bosses will care about or that you will be able to use at work. Yes, much of it is learnable at work, but why would a recruiter want to risk the fact that you will learn it at work vs. taking a business student you know has a background in the field. </p>
<p>Also, if you didn't know already, most MBA classes are not anymore difficult than the same class in the school's undergrad program. People learn exactly the same material, with maybe a bit more competition among students. Business school is more about connections. In fact, at my school, undergrad business majors take MBA classes to boost their GPA and decrease their courseload. And this is at a top 10 MBA and top 15 undergrad. As far as I've heard, this same situation occurs at other top schools in business.</p>
<p>But what about when that business student wants to advance and starts to compete with MBAs for promotions and higher-level jobs? While some people make it through on a BS or BBA , a lot have to go back and get an MBA, which is pretty redundant after an undergrad business degree. Now that's fine if a student goes into college knowing that, but a lot of people seem to think that an undergrad degree can serve as a replacement for an MBA, and are disappointed when they find themselves back in school learning what they already know. I don't care if a lot of courses in the two programs overlap, all other things equal, an employer would look more favorably upon an MBA than a BS for higher-level jobs. </p>
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Lib arts majors are at the very bottom of the applicant pool for business jobs.
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<p>And you are 100% sure of this...how? Because I know a ton of people who were liberal arts majors that are doing just fine in the business world. Heck one of them works and recruits for Merrill-Lynch now, and he certainly doesn't turn his nose up at liberal arts majors. </p>
<p>Think about it. If an undergraduate business degree is so essential, why doesn't Harvard offer one? Or Stanford? Or Northwestern? Or a ton of the "elite" colleges? I guess no one wants to hire people from there. Too bad, huh?</p>
<p>And I find it amusing how you write off every lib. arts major aside from econ. A comp sci major will fare just as well as someone who had their concentration in information-systems. Math majors, especially those that have taken economics classes, will do fine in accounting. Marketing or management? Psychology and sociology provide good backgrounds. </p>
<p>So no, liberal arts majors are not dead in the water. Do people with undergrad business degrees have an advantage? Some may have a slight one at first (depends on the schools). But once you start competing for those promotions, a psych major with an MBA in management is going to look better than someone with only an undergrad degree.</p>
<p>If an undergraduate business degree is NOT so essential, why does Wharton or Ross send soooooooooooo many people to investment banks every year.....
ECON-a liberal arts major-makes your chance great.
but English majors/Philosophy Majors/History Majors ain't gonna help you much. yes there're wall street people with these majors, however, very few compared to biz/econ/engineering majors...............</p>
<p>harvard doesn't offer one b/c business is not liberal arts education, business tells you how to do the job, which is not a goal in higher education. still, you can't diss biz majors. wharton/ross/sloan/stern/mcintire etc make a LOT of good businessmen.</p>
<p>If your goal is to get an ibanking job, Wharton will be better than HYP for you...</p>
<p>I know all about the top business schools, but is there a different list for top marketing undergraduate programs?</p>
<p>"But once you start competing for those promotions, a psych major with an MBA in management is going to look better than someone with only an undergrad degree"</p>
<p>I do believe that the psych major dude might get the promotion (he may have better ability in dealing with people). but really, you get promoted b/c you get revenues for your company, NOT b/c your undergrad majors...................</p>
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If an undergraduate business degree is NOT so essential, why does Wharton or Ross send soooooooooooo many people to investment banks every year.....
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<p>And why do places like Chicago and Dartmouth send soooooo many people every year too? Econ major = concentration in finance. So no, an undergrad business degree is not essential, even for Wall Street. </p>
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but English majors/Philosophy Majors/History Majors ain't gonna help you much. yes there're wall street people with these majors, however, very few compared to biz/econ/engineering majors...............
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<p>If your goal is Wall Street, then you're right, that's not a good idea. But you leave out a ton of other possible majors, which like I explained before, can be an asset in certain fields. </p>
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harvard doesn't offer one b/c business is not liberal arts education, business tells you how to do the job, which is not a goal in higher education. still, you can't diss biz majors. wharton/ross/sloan/stern/mcintire etc make a LOT of good businessmen.
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<p>Where am I dissing business majors? Heck 4/5 schools I applied to were business schools (I wanted to go into investment banking at the time). I'm just explaining that someone that wants to go into business does not have to go to an undergrad biz school. People seem to overestimate its neccessity. </p>
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If your goal is to get an ibanking job, Wharton will be better than HYP for you...
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<p>That's interesting. Do you have numbers to back this up?</p>
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I do believe that the psych major dude might get the promotion (he may have better ability in dealing with people). but really, you get promoted b/c you get revenues for your company, NOT b/c your undergrad majors...................
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<p>That's not even close to the point I was trying to make. After you get an MBA, where you went and what you did in undergrad becomes irrelevant. So a biz major with an MBA has no advantage over a psych major with one, but a psych major with one DOES have an advantage over someone with only an undergrad biz degree.</p>
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I know all about the top business schools, but is there a different list for top marketing undergraduate programs?
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<p>There is a US News ranking, but I remember its methodology being pretty sketchy. Still, I can copy/paste it if you want.</p>
<p>EDIT: And to further clarify the point of my posts, I just don't want someone who's looking to go into business make the same mistake as me in their college search. That is, write off schools they'd otherwise like because it didn't have a business school. If you like the business schools, great, apply there, attend, and reap the benefits. But don't hesitate to add an awesome college of arts and sciences (or school or engineering) to your list either.</p>
<p>an undergrad business degree is not essential. However, if you come from a top business ug business program you will definitely have an edge over those that went the econ route. Why do you think that Wharton is the best represented school at Goldman Sachs (more wharton grads than any other school and more Managing Directors from wharton than any other school). Most of the time the Wharton guys don't have to go to training and I've been told by many of my friends (and now I experienced it this summer) that many times they will pass over guys from HYP on special projects because they just don't know as much as the Wharton grads. This happened to me this summer I just finished my freshman year and I'm interning in NYC. Many of the other interns are HYP students (mainly students about to be seniors) and my bosses have passed these guys over for projects because they don't have the technical knowledge that I've already acquired from wharton.</p>
<p>"That's not even close to the point I was trying to make. After you get an MBA, where you went and what you did in undergrad becomes irrelevant. So a biz major with an MBA has no advantage over a psych major with one, but a psych major with one DOES have an advantage over someone with only an undergrad biz degree."</p>
<p>you were talking about promotions....still, promotions DONT happen just b/c of ur major. Once you get in the door, it all depends on you!
you also said "After you get an MBA, where you went and what you did in undergrad becomes irrelevant", EXACTLY! IRRELEVANT! then WHY DID YOU SAY "but a psych major with one DOES have an advantage over someone with only an undergrad biz degree" if undergrad majors are IRRELEVANT?
"That's interesting. Do you have numbers to back this up?"
Wharton gives you wayyy more real business OPPOTUNITIES.</p>
<p>However, bananainpyjamas, you are a smart guy and so am I. What's the point of fighting against each otehr? I DO AGREE with you on one thing: you don't have to get undergrad biz degree...it's not ESSENTIAL...I made the same mistakes you made:( by not applying to UChicago....well I dont like it much anyway, coz of its HUGe emphasis on academics...:) I 'd prefer a school with easier courseload. anyway, yes, dont make that mistake ever. however, i believe that business/econ/applied math/engineering are better than history/foreign affair when it comes to ibanking careers. anyway, let's not fight, and be friends rather than enemies:)
just curious, which school do you go to?</p>
<p>bern - That's absolutely true, but Wharton is a special case, especially on Wall Street, because it owns finance the way HBS owns management. I don't think that would be the case with undergrads from other business schools, and face it, not everyone can get into Wharton. :)</p>
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you were talking about promotions....still, promotions DONT happen just b/c of ur major. Once you get in the door, it all depends on you!
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<p>Unless you are trying to enter the company at a higher level (aka leveraging). They will want to see that you've done good work, but your degree will matter too. </p>
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you also said "After you get an MBA, where you went and what you did in undergrad becomes irrelevant", EXACTLY! IRRELEVANT! then WHY DID YOU SAY "but a psych major with one DOES have an advantage over someone with only an undergrad biz degree" if undergrad majors are IRRELEVANT?
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<p>Replace psych with anything you want. Someone with an MBA has an advantage over someone with ONLY an undergrad biz degree. </p>
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"That's interesting. Do you have numbers to back this up?"
Wharton gives you wayyy more real business OPPOTUNITIES.
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<p>That's a vague statement to make. What is a "real business opportunity" anyway? In any case, it depends on the field you want to go in. </p>
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However, bananainpyjamas, you are a smart guy and so am I. What's the point of fighting against each otehr? I DO AGREE with you on one thing: you don't have to get undergrad biz degree...it's not ESSENTIAL...I made the same mistakes you made by not applying to UChicago...
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<p>lol, I'm worse than you. I threw out applications to Chicago, Northwestern, Columbia, Dartmouth, and Brown. In fact the only Ivy I applied to was Penn (guess why?)</p>
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however, i believe that business/econ/applied math/engineering are better than history/foreign affair when it comes to ibanking careers.
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<p>i-banking, yes, but there's more to "business" than that. </p>
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just curious, which school do you go to?
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<p>Going to be a freshman at the one non-business school I applied to (Duke).</p>
<p>'Replace psych with anything you want. Someone with an MBA has an advantage over someone with ONLY an undergrad biz degree"</p>
<p>i'm sorry, i misunderstood you. :( i thought you were talking about a guy with biz undergrad+MBA with another guy with psych undergrad+MBA................I apologize, sir.</p>
<p>Good luck at DUKE</p>