<p>I differ- for International students the top LACs are as selective or even more than the lower ivies. Even schools like Bates/Vassar and Oberlin have International students who could walk into HYPSM if not that they were seeking financial aid. The reason is that IS who could get into Ivies but have to compete for financial aid as an international- which is insanely difficult- will have to settle for LACs. So 80-90% of the Internationals in the Top LACs are Ivy quality but not in the genius category required to get financial aid.</p>
<p>I do not have to take it with the Common Data Set organization. The definition of what constitities an admission cycle is pretty clear. Perhaps you did not understand what I meant.</p>
<p>Also, perhaps it would great for you to share the numbers one should use for Middlebury. For instance, for the Class of 2013, should we look at the numbers posted by Midd on its profile or look at the CDS numbers.</p>
<p>Did Midd admit 1529 students or did they admit 1413? Did Midd total 7984 or 6904 applications. This should clear up how they account for the 90 February enrolled students.</p>
<p>This is the definition used by the Common Data Set:
</p>
<p>February admits do not enter until February of the following year. Middlebury includes the Febs in the stats on their website and in their publications. They respond to the CDS according to the CDS’s instructions.</p>
<p>Re #8, the Cornell number you posted is an aggregate of all 7 of its undergraduate colleges. The most recent # for its arts & sciences college alone has not yet been posted so far as I’ve seen, but is typically a couple % lower than the university aggregate.</p>
<p>To compare apples to apples when comparing to liberal arts colleges, it would be best to strip out the Arts &sciences colleges alone for all the multi-college universities having separate admissions by college. Not just Cornell but also Georgetown, Vanderbilt I believe, whatever others.</p>
<p>In the 2010 USNews, Middlebury reports te numbers of applications at 7,823 and 1,316 admissions. This also corresponds to the CDS for that year. </p>
<p>In the above linked fact book, the number of applications is 7,825 and the admissions total is 1,319. We can call that a match. How many September admits are there? The answer is 1,319. How many enrolled? 560. The september admission rate is 17%.</p>
<p>But, there are also 152 admits and 92 February matriculants. Where are the corresponding number of applications? Arent’ they included in the … 7,825 number of applications? </p>
<p>Before answering those questions, check the results of 1319/7825 and 1470/7825 and compare the rates of admissions to what is listed in the fourth and seventh lines, namely 17% and 19%. </p>
<p>Do you still cling to the notion that Middlebury is NOT including the applicants that are entering in February in the CDS forms? </p>
<p>As I wrote, in a few days the USNews will come out. Let’s review the numbers on the CDS, the USNews, and compare it to the factbook data I quoted. FYI, the numbers to compare will be 6904 applications. The fact book reports 1,454 admits in September and 161 in February.</p>
<p>I agree with everything you said. As I mentioned, Middlebury clearly outlines the admissions stats on its website and in its publications (such as the factbook). My point is that the CDS specifically asks for admissions numbers for students who apply for and matriculate in the fall of any given year. The students who apply for September enrollment (by checking a box on the application) but who are later offered admission in February of the following year were not accepted to the class entering in September (fall). Therein lies the issue. I agree that there’s a reporting issue whereby 150 or so acceptances fall through the cracks due to the definitions included in the CDS. But as I said earlier, Middlebury accurately answers the CDS questions based on how they are worded. Approximatly 21% of students who applied for September enrollment at Middlebury College in fall 2009 received an acceptance letter for the class entering fall 2009. An additional 2% were not accepted to Middlebury for the class entering fall 2009, but were offered the opportunity to enroll in February 2010.</p>
<p>The top 20 LACs are excellent. Schools like Amherst, Bowdoin, Carleton, Clarement McKenna, Colgate, Davidson, Grinnell, Haverford, Middlebury, Oberlin, Pomona, Swarthmore, Vassar, Wesleyan and Williams are all on par with the Ivy-League. Assuming LACs are your thing, you would not miss a thing attending one of the top LACs.</p>
<p>I know this is probably a misconception, especially with international students, but the Ivy League is nothing more than an athletics conference. There are many other excellent top universities from which to make comparisons with the top liberal arts colleges. Stanford, MIT, UChicago, Caltech, Duke, Rice, Tufts, etc. are excellent universities that match well with both Ivy League universities and the top LACs. </p>
<p>There is nothing that “defines” a school as an Ivy except membership in that athletic conference - an Ivy does not have any characteristic that makes it inherently “better” than a non-Ivy. Are the Ivies all great school? Of course! Are they the eight best? I can’t think of a single category in which those eight schools are the best…</p>
<p>but to answer your question, the education you receive at top LACs like Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Bowdoin, Middlebury, Wesleyan, Pomona, etc. is equal to that of an Ivy, and the selectivity is about the same.</p>
<p>With regards to admission, in my experience, having sat through my own admission cycle and spectated two more, and having spent three years now meeting all sorts of folks at my LAC, I can say that the very best LACs are more willing to give hooked applicants a chance, often with less regard toward ranking and testing.</p>