Top liberal arts grad unemployed and a little discouraged

<p>I’m honestly embarrassed to do that. What if it turns out they can’t do anything for me or if I go through the interview process then get denied? I think I might put them (and maybe my friends too) in an awkward position.</p>

<p>“^ you mean to say you haven’t met an employer who has “never” heard of it?”</p>

<p>No, I meant “ever”! The closest I ever got was an employer who said he had taken a trip with his wife to Williamsburg. Other than that, none, nada.</p>

<p>mini, you’ve been applying to the wrong jobs. :)</p>

<p>Oh, I think 40 years of experience is enough. Thank heavens I never had to rely on my alma mater’s name recognition.</p>

<p>Over the years, I’ve sat on more than my share of hiring committees. Usually, the name of the undergraduate institution sometimes gets 20 seconds of “oh, I know where that one is”, or “oh, that must have been great”, and then the conversation turns to, “so what can you do for me today?”</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You misunderstand the role of the network. </p>

<p>No one promises you a job. The best they can do is to get you an interview if a job is available or give you the name of the person hiring. After that, you are on your own. The only way that you could put them in an awkward position is if you were a real **** in your interview or on the job (which I am assuming that you wouldn’t be).</p>

<p>Think of your talk with these people as being one of information gathering and research. The point of talking to them is to find out what it is like to work in their field and to pick their brain about things that are generally available in their field that might be open to someone with your credentials. They may know people in other fields that they could hook you up with. When you think of it in this way, there is no way that these people can’t do anything for you–they can give you valuable information.</p>

<p>If they just happen to know of a job you can apply for, great. But it usually doesn’t work that way. But they will now keep you in mind and if something comes up, they will get in touch with you.</p>

<p>If that’s too embarrassing, then I’d just go to that Harvard professional school where you’ll probably have a marked path to employment with on campus recruiting.</p>

<p>I"m going to focus on the fact that you say you look like you are 15 years old.</p>

<p>I am going to suggest that you get some clothes and a haircut to help with this, some aging glasses. </p>

<p>There are people who can help you with this.</p>

<p>It may sound trivial, but face-to-face, it isn’t.</p>

<p>I’m a big anti-debt person when it comes to undergrad. For grad school at Harvard, however, I’d actually advocate going, personally. And I never recommend debt, at all, to undergrads.</p>

<p>Why don’t you look at the job prospects of those who graduate from your professional program? I think you will be pretty happy and also in Boston, where you can make a ton of contacts.</p>

<p>Good luck to you.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I’m in a similar position though I chose to work a couple of years before starting my grad program.</p>

<p>However, for a tippy top grad program, I would say that level of debt can easily be worth it (though I may be biased since I’m looking at around $100K (at least) for my grad degree, in loans). I would sit down and look at</p>

<p>1) How much (if any) debt you’re carrying from undergrad
2) What the average debt is for program grads
3) What the median salary of grads from the program (and how you’d expect to stack up in the median, ie, if you’ve have comparably less real world experience than the rest of the class, your interests lie in a nonprofit sector or something similarly lower-paying, etc)
4) Any debt-forgiveness programs the school offers
5) How long it takes program grads (on average) to repay their debt (the financial services office should have this info)</p>

<p>Plug your expected loans into a loan calculator and see around how much you’d be paying depending when you want to get those loans paid off by. Think hard about what your expected salary would be, and whether you could carry those loans - typically with a Harvard or similar professional degree, students can. Commit yourself to the fact that you’ll have to live a lower-key lifestyle until the loans are paid off and don’t take out loans for stupid stuff (a friend at HLS used some of his loan money to do a $10k Carribean vacation - my guess is that it’s not going to be worth it in five years when he’s paying it back). But six figures of debt can easily be worth it for a top tier law, business or med program.</p>

<p>ETA: watsonfan, I found my relatively well-paying, high-responsibility and intellectually challenging first job out of college on Craigslist! No one discriminated against my undergrad (to my face, anyway) though plenty of people hadn’t heard of it. That’s okay, because luckily I was able to explain concretely what skills it had equipped me with that would serve me well in their organization. I didn’t hear a lot on jobs, like I said, until May, and then in the two weeks before graduation, I had five job offers. Who knew? Seriously, plenty of companies aren’t looking to hire you until you can actually work for them.</p>

<p>I had plenty of friends who had luck on Monster.com, Craigslist, LACN, or by researching companies they were interested in, picking the “careers” page, and looking to see if there were any openings.</p>

<p>Mini! LOL! I love your story. My son goes to (the other ;)) #1 LAC. Admittedly we live on the west coast, but here it’s a very rare soul that has ever heard of the college. I’ve stopped saying the name because all I ever got was “Where is that?” So now I just say “He’s in college in Massachusetts” and they say “Massachusetts? Wow!” :p</p>

<p>I’ve told both my kids --both humanities majors-- to expect to start from scratch, really, when it comes to post-college employment. My son is only a junior but he’s started out already talking to friends of friends of the family who are in certain lines of work he’s interested in. Just as Ellemenope says, he isn’t asking for work, but is instead trying to just make contacts, get more informed about the possible paths to this position or that, just get his bearings. Once he graduates, I can only assume that process will continue and while he’s finding his way he’ll work in casual jobs doing this and that and picking up some transferable skills and future employment references from the people for whom he works.</p>

<p>A friend of mine with an English major son at another very selective LAC thinks there is almost necessarily another two years of college necessary after her son gets his BA. Either two years at a community college to get some specific sort of certification or two years in a pre-professional masters program somewhere.</p>

<p>For the OP however, I think you’re right to not rush into even more enormous indebtedness without a very clear objective that you feel committed to and confident will lead to some very lucrative work… but if that’s work in the corporate world, and you feel definite about not wanting to live in that environment, then by all means don’t make that financial commitment for grad school.</p>

<p>First of all, it is very typical for liberal arts grads to not get hired until they are actually ready to work full time. Neither of my kids had jobs at this point – they were only getting started sending out resumes. My son had a job in hand within 2 weeks after graduating, but not a nibble on any application until he had graduated. My d. was informed that she was hired for her job the day she graduated. But she needed to be able to fill out an application saying that she was available to start work full time, immediately. </p>

<p>The next thing: my daughter’s LAC had totally, amazing, wonderful career services. If my d. were to list the best things about her college, the career services office would certainly be at or near the very top. But they did not get her a job nor did she get a job “through” them. Why were they so wonderful then? Because they taught her everything she needed to know about getting a job, including how to network; they hooked her up with a mentor – and basically it’s like that old adage about teaching a man to fish … maybe other career services office catch the fish for their grads, but my d. is grateful for the terrific education she has in job hunting. </p>

<p>Which brings me to point 3: “The truth is I’ve been quiet about my job hunt” " I would feel bad asking them for job leads" “I will try to go on job boards and such but I heard those places get the most applicants” “Many employers posting there might not be aware of LACs or even hold grudges against highly selective colleges.”</p>

<p>Those are all self-defeating statements that reflect a mindset that may become a self-fulfilling prophesy: “I won’t bother applying because they won’t hire me anyway.” Networking means you have to be very LOUD about your job hunt, letting everyone you know that you are looking. Heck, when my d. was looking, I was even talking to people I had just met at social gatherings if they were employed in her field of interest – of course I didn’t ask them for a job for my daughter, I asked them if they had any tips or suggestions that I could take to her. I actually got some really great info that way. </p>

<p>The reason that job boards get the most applicants is that that’s where the most jobs are. Most companies and agencies do NOT fill their ranks from campus recruitment, and even those that do usually hire outside those channels as well. My kids got their jobs by applying to publicly posted positions. My son has also been in a position to hire for those positions. They probably will recognize your LAC (they aren’t idiots, really) , and they probably don’t hold any grudges – do you really think that you are going to lose out compared to a graduate of Podunk State College because of a “grudge”? </p>

<p>It sounds to me like you aren’t really sure that you want a job – you just aren’t real sure about the money for grad school, either. So you seem to be looking for an excuse to rationalize a choice – that is, if you kind of halfway look for a job and nothing turns up on your doorstep, you can convince yourself that the grad school debt is worth it. </p>

<p>If you really want to find a job… get looking. </p>

<p>One thing that my d. discovered as an LAC grad that really worked to her advantage is that most of her classmates didn’t have a clue as to how to really look for a job. So the competition was not nearly as fierce as it could have been. </p>

<p>If you decide that you really do want to work, and not simply garner sympathy on an online bulletin board – you are going to have to stop being discrete and give people an idea of what type of experience you have and what kind of work you would like to do – as well as your specific major. I’m not saying that CC is necessarily the best place to do that – but you need to be specific before anyone can give you realistic leads & suggestions.</p>

<p>See if your LAC Career Center keeps a list of alumni from all years, indexed by profession. No matter their age, if you write a charming email to ask about information in their field, you will be “networking.” </p>

<p>Introduce yourself and ask one good question about the work they do, or the city in which they live. If there’s some new building or program on campus, mention it just because for them it’s nostalgia and an update on their alma mater. Let them know you WILL be looking in the future for work, but for now, you just want to “gather information and ideas about careers” with the relevant major or whatever it is you share.</p>

<p>Some people enjoy sharing a thought if they don’t feel you are pressuring them for an immediate job. It’s okay to introduce yourself this way to alumni from an LAC. Write to as many as you wish. Invite them to e-reply or phone you if they prefer. Some won’t ever answer, others will.</p>

<p>You don’t have to know them beforehand. Keep the list, and when you get closer, you can write them a second email, asking a new question and saying you’re now in actual pursuit of employment.</p>

<p>Also have you picked the brains of your current academic major advisor or favorite professor? Sometimes they hear of opportunities outside of academia, or might suggest a work environment. For example, from your majors mentioned, have you ever thought to just google up the U.S. State Department, to see what career pathways they describe?</p>

<p>“Mini! LOL! I love your story. My son goes to (the other ) #1 LAC. Admittedly we live on the west coast, but here it’s a very rare soul that has ever heard of the college. I’ve stopped saying the name because all I ever got was “Where is that?” So now I just say “He’s in college in Massachusetts” and they say “Massachusetts? Wow!””</p>

<p>Here, the named a housing development after the “Other #1 LAC”., and the local American Indians protested.</p>

<p>^Haha, a pox on Lord Jeffrey.</p>

<p>^
Now that’s funny!</p>

<p>And with good reason! At least the college was named after the town, not L.J.A, but since I assume the housing development was not in the town… then I wonder whose idea it was to so name it.</p>

<p>By the way, I read that it is highly unlikely L.J.A. ever set foot in the town. There seem to be several towns of the same name in his honor – in Maine, New Hampshire, Ohio, Massachusetts and Virginia.</p>

<p>I think they named towns in places where the blankets went…</p>

<p>^</p>

<p>It was cold. ;)</p>

<p>I think job-hunting is quite possibly harder than college admissions. You have the same elements at play, except transferable skills and experience matter more and the judgment of your candidacy is even more subjective. You have to write tens of personalized letters to employers, requiring an enormous amount of time commitment with no guarantee of success at the end, or even feedback with some employers. There is more at stake. With college apps, if you have the stats, you will most likely end up somewhere. With job apps, you could end up without a job and forget about being self-sufficient in the near future. It’s a huge blow to one’s sense of self-worth to have gotten so far in life finishing college and getting no job to show for it at the end. Please tell me this is normal and that I, along with the throngs of us who will graduate with a soft science major, won’t be jobless/stuck in a minimum-wage job in the coming years.</p>

<p>It’s comforting to know many liberal arts majors don’t actually get hired until close to graduation or soon after. I mean it makes sense…a lot of the jobs they qualify for aren’t likely the type to have a well-established recruitment program.</p>

<p>I also feel better about “networking” through informational interviews knowing there’s an understanding among working people that the person asking isn’t necessarily asking for a job but rather tips and leads. So it’s really normal to email an alumnus/a out of the blue and ask to meet with them? I actually emailed one before just to get advice by email but we didn’t meet in person since he was out-of-state.</p>

<p>Americorps is a good suggestion…I’ve looked into it before, just casually when I was a junior, but never seriously pursued it. I actually know a guy doing it and another one doing CityYear. I’ll look into these more.</p>

<p>I’m working very closely with the financial aid office at Harvard to see what my options will be. Do you guys have any thoughts on the federal government’s loan forgiveness program for people who have served in public service for 10 years? I know public service jobs are competitive, but I really want them. What jobs exactly would qualify under this program?</p>

<p>Have you had part time & summer jobs in the past? if you are interested in public service/ nonprofit, then Idealist.org is a great source of listings. Both my kids got their first jobs out of college via positions originally listed there. It’s free and it’s pretty easy to set it up so that it emails you new listings on a daily basis. </p>

<p>I think you are right that job hunting is harder… but I think that part of the problem may be that students at elite LAC’s miss out on skills that are 2nd nature to kids coming out of public colleges who have racked up a lot more work experience along the way. I mean – you are off away from home at a remote college – while some kid you went to high school with is commuting to the the local state U, but all the while has held down a series of steady part time jobs – who is more likely to have racked up workplace skills as well as job hunting skills?</p>

<p>If it’s any consolation, my daughter told me she mailed about 30 resumes last year before landing a job. She has a wonderful job that exactly fits her career interests and is a terrific opportunity for her – but she did have job skills & an internship that gave her strong qualifications. So you really have to have that piece in place.</p>

<p>Any job with a government agency, school or non-profit organization qualifies for loan forgiveness. However, it only really works if you’re going to be on IBR or have ginormous loans, because otherwise they should be paid off in full after 10 years of payments anyway.</p>