<p>5boys,
Check out UChicago. Physics is stellar, of course, and it has a vibrant and accessible theater program as well.</p>
<p>Just a warning to the students interested in CMUs theatre program…it is their MOST competitive program (harder to get into than computer science or engineering) and is entirely based on the audition. All theatre majors get gigs the day they graduate…usually with a highly reputable company or show or go to hollywood. </p>
<p>A parent on a tour asked what the gpa/scores were for the theatre majors…they were told that the college of fine arts sees an awesome audition and they may check to see if the student will graduate from high school but really, scores/grades are not relevant. Music performance and fine arts programs probably weigh the scores/grades and audition/portfolio about equally but if you want to dual major you have to have scores/grades that show you can succeed in your academic major. Students can quite easily minor, or, with a little planning add the second major if they pass the prerequisite classes. AP credits are very helpful for speeding this along.</p>
<p>Theatre, however, is the ONLY major at CMU where you can’t double major or even minor. It is very ironic because the computer science majors are now required to MINOR outside of their college so they don’t become too one sided. That being said there are lots of theatre afficionados who are not in the theatre program but do get involved in th excellent clubs and activities related to theatre. Also, for example, my son does animation as part of his art studies and gets these amazing students to do voiceovers or act in his short videos. Cmu interdisciplinary culture means my S can ask his engineer-roomate to help out with lighting or sound issues or help with his math for robotics; or means that there is a biochem major who will explain the chemical logic behind how bleach works while helping S dig through dumpsters for stuff for his sculptures. A few weeks ago, the hot topic at the party on saturday night was about some newly discovered subatomic particles moving faster than light…if this sounds like fun then CMU is a great fit</p>
<p>Thanks fineartsmom… that’s what I thought about the theatre program at CMU… that it was hard to do anything else. My S has done quite a few prestigious theatre programs already… mostly Shakespeare stuff… but I am trying to steer him away from conservatory type audition programs. I think he would be happier at an LAC like Wesleyan, Vassar,etc. where he can take theatre classes, audition for shows, and also major in Physics… but who knows, if does go the theatre route he wants to do live theatre, not movies/tv. He is going to apply for the CMU summer theater program this year, so maybe this will make things clearer. I think it is going to be hard to double major in either of these majors as they are both very intensive. What do you do with a Physics degree if you don’t want to be an engineer??? He has recently been thinking of aeronautical engineering… so who knows. Just starting to think about this as I have a Senior right now and we are still in the midst of all of that. Thanks for the ideas… motherbear… will check out U OF C… didn’t know that had a thriving theatre program, when I thnk of theatre in Chicago I think of NU.</p>
<p>We are so grateful for all of your help—THANK YOU!</p>
<p>Consolation mentioned how Smith & Wellesley “are full of very bright articulate students, have an institutional teaching style that emphasizes classroom participation, and are members of consortia with coed schools”. </p>
<p>As we look at colleges, we want to be especially aware of whether the schools’ teaching style is one that values classroom participation. Lectures are fine, but a give-and-take between the professor & students is optimal for my dau. So, any insights re colleges that emphasize classroom participation will be much appreciated—Thanks.</p>
<p>Also, Consolation asked for clarification about my dau’s art interest, which is in Studio Art. She has always envisioned herself working as a scientist. Because she isn’t sure which area of science, she’d like strength in all facets of a school’s science program. She doesn’t know yet if she’d be interested in engineering, but she may have a better idea of what areas of science she’d like to pursue studying after this year’s science courses. Or not 
</p>
<p>With her passion & talent in studio art, it’d be ideal if she matriculated at a college or university that is strong in both Studio Art & Sciences, so that she’s at the right school for either major, just in case she wants to double-major or even switch to majoring in Studio Art. </p>
<p>HARVARD: Thanks, Consolation, for your insights concerning Harvard. Loved your comments, “Kids radiating ‘I’m so special’”, “It’s not as if “everyone” who gets in to those schools has an ego the size of Gibraltar, and she sounds like the confident type.” My dau has quiet confidence in her intellectual abilities, but is not a “mover” & “shaker”. </p>
<p>YALE: My perception of the students we know at H & Y fit Consolation’s comments about H & Y admissions favoring “super outgoing and charismatic types”. I fear that while my dau is very confident about her intellectual abilities, she is less confident socially, & she could be invisible & get lost socially among all of these students who radiate “I’m so special” & have such magnetic, bright personas. </p>
<p>AMHERST: momof3sons, thank you for your comments about Amherst, which also fit what momrath said. I’ll do more reading, but it sounds like Amherst will likely not be the best fit for my dau’s interest in studio art & science.</p>
<p>CMU: So happy to hear from fineartsmajormom, ttparent, racingreaver & mathmom that CMU has cross-over & connections between the arts students & the science students, & that it’s possible for a student to take courses in both areas as well as possible for a student to double major in science & studio art. </p>
<p>We were also very intrigued to read fineatsmajormom’s post about the cross-fertilization between science & art, & the faculty & student support for doing a combo program with dual science & arts. Also pleased that they mix the science & arts kids together in housing. A side benefit is that my dau really enjoys theater & theater people, she just can’t do it all, so she was not going to pursue that interest in college. But, she could be around theater people at CMU & that would be another “fit” for her. Plus, mathmom’s mention of Pittsburgh being a nice place to live is an absolute plus. </p>
<p>I have some vague recollection of CMU having an on-campus housing shortage & some students needing to live off-campus after their first or second year. Anybody know anything about that? I’ll do some more reading & see what I can find out about that.</p>
<p>BRANDEIS: Thanks, Bookmama22, for your post about Brandeis’ strength in both studio art & science. Knew of their science strength, but very pleased with how fabulous their art program was for your dau. Also speaks very well of their art program that your dau was able to get into a top MFA program in painting. I’m quite thrilled, actually, that we have another really viable option for a possible “match” for my dau—Thank you. </p>
<p>WELLESLEY: I’m also encouraged about the possibility of Wellesley being a possible fit for my dau, & appreciate pizzagirl & fendrock’s comments on their dau’s experiences at Wellesley. </p>
<p>SMITH: Appreciate Pizzagirl’s mention of Smith being a bit more quirky than Wellesley. Something to pay attention to when we visit. I know nothing of the students or campus vibe at most of these schools since we’re in the early stages of exploration, & it really helpful to get your impressions prior to the campus visits so that we can have some of those thoughts in the back of our minds while we’re looking at the schools. </p>
<p>Thanks for your continued thoughts & insights.</p>
<p>Need2, Will be interested to hear your daughter’s impressions after her visits. Everything you say about her wish list is a good fit with Williams – excellent sciences, excellent studio art, theater performance opportunities for non-majors, small discussion based classes, nurturing faculty, smart friendly kids, insular closeknit campus community. Double and ever triple majors in disparate disciplines are common and encouraged. </p>
<p>The question mark that I would attach to Williams and several of the other schools in the area is whether she will relate positively to the rural locale. For my son access to a profoundly beautiful natural environment was a big plus; for others it may be a deal breaker.</p>
<p>Momrath—Thanks for your suggestions & comments. I’m very curious, too, about her impressions after the visits. </p>
<p>I am so appreciative of everyone’s help in developing such an excellent list of a variety of schools—some LACs, mid-size schools, women’s schools, Ivies & research universities. </p>
<p>From what you have said about Williams, I’m taken aback by how incredibly well what she wants—small classes, discussion based classes, close faculty-student relationships, caring & available faculty, tutorials, smart friendly kids, closeknit campus community, fabulous studio art & science studies, & even snow :)–matches with Williams. </p>
<p>I’ll report back after our visits, & let you know what she thinks. Am eager to see myself which schools resonate with her.</p>
<p>Any suggestions on college visits—things to make sure to do, questions to ask, places to make sure that we see or experience?</p>
<p>Thanks again.</p>
<p>
Harvard has this reputation, but I think it’s overblown. My older son, for whom the t-shirt “I’m not anti-social, I’m just not user friendly” was made, enjoyed his accepted student weekend at Harvard where to his surprise he found a good number of kids just like himself. In the end he decided Carnegie Mellon, was an even better fit for him, but Harvard accepts a wide variety of types. They like to have a well rounded class, rather than a class of well rounded students. I went to Harvard and majored in art (aka Visual and Environmental Studies). It’s sort of a stupid thing to do, but I did enjoy my classes and my fellow students and I went on to grad school in architecture. Because I was in a small department with lots of small classes I got to know most of my professors really well.</p>
<p>What was it about Carnegie Mellon that he felt ended up being a better fit for him? Find lots of like-minded kids there, too?</p>
<p>I’m intrigued with CMU with the potential for excellent Studio Art along side of fabulous Science courses. </p>
<p>Inclined to think my dau will major just in Science, but would enjoy taking Studio Art classes. </p>
<p>How’s Art at H? Still relatively small department? I’ll do some more reading…</p>
<p>The OP mentioned her daughter’s preference for schools that value give-and-take between the professor and student.</p>
<p>I’ve been very impressed with this aspect of Wellesley.</p>
<p>My daughter’s physics class has about 30 students, but the associated lab has only 6. Physics held a dinner for the physics faculty and any interested students this week, and my daughter was looking forward to attending. She said there would be another for the Astronomy department, so I am guessing this is a tradition for all departments.</p>
<p>In addition, my daughter has met with her French professor twice to discuss the two essays she has written so far. The professor has spent about 30 minutes of one-on-one time with her each time.</p>
<p>The faculty seem to really encourage and enjoy interaction with their students.</p>
<p>Wanted to follow up with comments concerning Brown, RISD, & Tufts. Still researching Bates, Vassar & Skidmore. </p>
<p>Would value insights about any of these schools. </p>
<p>Do these schools have what consolation described as “institutional emphasis on classroom discussions”?</p>
<p>Connected students connecting with one another & interacting socially in a–to use momrath’s words-- closeknit, cohesive community? </p>
<p>BROWN & RISD: 1012mom’s dau “felt it (Brown) was a school of individuals, and that the school did not actively do much to promote community”. Thoughts on other people’s experience with Brown? And on whether students from Brown regularly take classes at RIDS? </p>
<p>TUFTS: Both 1012Mom & Bromfield mentioned Tufts possibly being a better option than Brown. 1012Mom said Tufts was: “strong in the sciences and has a program with the SMFA in Boston. It does not have a house system, but is very strong on building community”. </p>
<p>Is the program with the SMFA in Boston for students in Studio Art? Are all the Tufts students majoring in Art with the SMFA program in Boston?</p>
<p>Need2Clarify, I do not know much about Tufts but do know that the SMFA in Boston and Tufts are not geographically that close to each other. The logistics of taking classes in both places would be time consuming.</p>
<p>Thanks, Fendrock, for your additional comments about the faculty care & commitment at Wellesley, as well as the faculty-student interaction.</p>
<p>While my dau prefers a co-ed environment so she can have “regular” interaction with guys in a variety of every-day situations, she’s open to visiting Wellesley & Smith to see about the potential “fit”.</p>
<p>Her concern isn’t related to dating but more to friendships with both guys & girls. </p>
<p>With Smith & Wellesley in particular, do the girls develop friendships with guys primarily through mixers & parties, or are there other intentional activities (outing clubs, etc) that are fostered between schools such as Wellesley & MIT?</p>
<p>My Tufts son took an art class (jewelry making specifically) at the Museum. This particular class met on Saturday mornings. It took him about an hour on the T to get there. He enjoyed it, but felt he didn’t get much feedback and was surprised with a B when he thought he was doing all that was expected. (BTW I thought he deserved the B, but do agree with him that it would have been nice if the teacher had been more critical before handing out grades!) There are also art classes on campus and he does plan to take more art classes.</p>
<p>My concern with the RISD/Brown & Tufts/SMFA art options relates to Fendrock’s comment concerning the logistics of taking classes on 2 different campuses being time-consuming.</p>
<p>In terms of energy, time, building relationship on one’s campus & feeling a part of a connected, cohesive community, my introverted dau is probably better off going to a college where her academic interests are all on one campus.</p>
<p>mathmom’s comment is interesting. I was thinking about energy & relationships, but wasn’t thinking about how the teachers at another school, such as the SMFA, may or may not be as skilled as the faculty at the strong college (eg Tufts or Brown) with the nuances of guiding students, getting critical feedback, challenging them, etc.</p>
<p>Anybody have thoughts on Swarthmore or Haverford? Wondering whether to fit them into this trip.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Last I heard they were expanding freshman housing, so first year students shouldn’t have a problem getting on campus. However, housing for sophomore year is limited and is awarded by a lottery. Personally, I was on campus my second year and regret having stayed. I went from a nice, big double on the first floor to the smallest double on campus on the third floor at the top of the hill. Was also still stuck on the meal plan (though they’ve since changed food vendors and I’ve heard the quality’s improved a bit). There are TONS of off-campus options for living, ranging from city-like apartments down near the University of Pittsburgh, quiet suburban housing with mostly families in Squirrel Hill, to a more “typical” student housing adjacent to campus where you’ve got these older houses with 5+ bedrooms a bunch of students will rent together. And none of them are more than a 20 minute bus ride away (most are less than a mile’s walk).</p>
<p>I believe SMFA at Tufts is all studio art. Not sure about the number of art classes on campus - but there is an arts distribution requirement so I know there are some. There is a distance to the MFA, but it is a T ride, something most Tufts students get very comfortable doing.</p>
<p>Really would encourage you to look at Wesleyan. It sounds like it might be an ideal fit, artsy, small classes, housing system that is supportive and community building.</p>
<p>In terms of Swarthmore and Haverford…it would be difficult to fit these into the same trip because although they are near each other they are about a 5-6 hour drive from Boston. That is with no traffic - and with NYC in the middle no traffic is hard to do. My artsy DD loved Swarthmore but felt Haverford was too sciency for her taste (they did not mention any humanities classes on the tour- which turned her off). The theatre program appeared to be focused on the Bryn mawr campus, as was the swimming pool, which made it feel incomplete to her. Also, she did not love the whole emphasis on the honor code, which she felt should just be the routine standard of behavior and not some big thing. YMMV</p>
<p>Vassar might be another school to consider.</p>
<p>Need2Clarify, you asked about social interactions with the opposite sex at Wellesley.</p>
<p>Not surprisingly, students need to make an effort to meet boys. One way to do it would be to cross-register for a class at Babson, Bentley, Olin or MIT (Babson, Bentley and Olin are all more or less in the same town as Wellesley). It is often the case that someone already knows someone at another Boston area school (Boston University etc.) and friendship groups extend out in this fashion. Wellesley has parties on campus and invites other area students. Groups of students head out on weekends to parties on other campuses. Etc.</p>
<p>It is certainly true that it would be easier to have male friendships at a co-ed school. The thing is that it is MUCH harder to gain admittance at a co-ed school of a similar intellectual calibre. For example, the admittance rate at Williams this year was 17%, whereas at Wellesley it was more like 30%.</p>
<p>This is why I suggest your daughter consider Wellesley. Perhaps it won’t be her first choice, but once she sees what her options are, she may feel the intellectual environment of the school outweighs the benefit of her co-ed options.</p>
<p>I will add one caveat – she should not apply to the school only as a safety. I do believe Wellesley can sniff out applicants who can see themselves as Wellesley students rather those who are only applying in case they don’t get in elsewhere. In my daughter’s high school class, an exceptional student was turned down whereas others with lesser stats were accepted. I’m guessing that her “Why Wellesley” essay was not sufficiently compelling.</p>
<p>RISD and Brown are next door to each other (there are some RISD buildings that are closer to Brown’s main Arts and Sciences library than other Brown buildings where your D would be spending time.) The issue at RISD is not proximity (since it could be a two minute walk to class or studio). The issue might be scheduling- the universities encourage cross registration but it isn’t always convenient to do so. Brown has its own art offerings and unless your D has a very narrow or deep interest (a particular type of sculpture) she may find everything she needs right there. It has a strong Art History department and it is a pretty popular major. It is also easy to do an inter-disciplinary major given how flexible the curriculum is.</p>
<p>I would encourage you not to get too caught up in the “style of learning” issue. Every university- even a small LAC is going to have some classes taught with a traditional “professor at the front and students taking notes” format. That’s just the most effective way to do Econ 1 or Psych 101 or whatever the intro class in the discipline happens to be. Even in a huge university, the classes for upper level subjects get smaller and smaller-- and whether it’s a 20 person seminar or a 5 student tutorial, a student will have ample opportunity to cultivate relationships with professors if he or she wants to.</p>
<p>I am a Brown grad and my biggest class was probably Sears Jayne Shakespeare class (it had standing room only at every single lecture- people from Providence regularly showed up to hear his lectures, physics and comp sci majors would audit even if they hadn’t read the works just because he was such a gifted lecturer). Maybe that was 400 students? My smallest was a seminar co-taught by two professors which had 8 students. (Now that’s a ratio!). Believe me, I got more out of Jayne’s lectures. I also took another “famous” lecture class- John Workman, a Classics professor, and that was a life-altering experience for me despite the presence of hundreds of other students. I took a Russian History class and the final was an oral exam! The professor actually scheduled half an hour with every single student and we sat in his office and drank tea and he probed on whatever topic he decided he was interested in that day. It probably took him three weeks of non-stop “oral exams” to get through the entire class- and mine was at 9 pm one night and he looked as fresh as if he’d just woken up.</p>
<p>So don’t get too bogged down in learning style. Famous professors are often famous because they are just fantastic at connecting with and communicating their passion to their students. And they can do that in a lecture hall, a seminar room, their office, or standing in front of a painting at the university art museum.</p>