Top Notch National Universities Vs Liberal Arts Colleges

[Gatsby11]

<p>^Agreed; test scores, etc. are crude measures for the “caliber” of the entering student body—they don’t necessarily correlate with academic quality, grad placement, phd production, life satisfaction, etc. Nevertheless, the top LACs do stack up well against their National U counterparts.</p>

[informative]

<p>A lot of Reed ■■■■■■■■ in this thread.</p>

[phantasmagoric]

<p>^ lol, I don’t think a single one of us has any affiliation with Reed here. We just know that it’s a top school despite what people like you say.</p>

[vonlost]

<p>Some of us are indeed affiliated with Reed. :)</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>

It’s not an either/or, onecircuit. It’s an “and.” Reed being an excellent college doesn’t invalidate HYP being excellent colleges too. Why is it so threatening? Frankly, it’s both far more gracious and far more true to say that there are many excellent places to get an education, than to engage in the fiction that once you go beyond HYP, quality plummets.

</p>

<p>pizzagirl, there you go again</p>

<p>take the time to read what has been posted</p>

<p>it is the Reed college people that have been saying that Reed College students and its education is much more “intellectual” and superios to HYP…</p>

[zchryevns]

<p>Both vossron and myself are affiliated with Reed (student and parent of an alum, if I remember correctly), yet neither of us have anything against larger universities.</p>

<p>

it is the Reed college people that have been saying that Reed College students and its education is much more “intellectual” and superios to HYP…

Oh? And where in the thread did this take place? I believe we’ve merely defended the college while you’ve gone on and on about how HYP students are sooOoOooOo0o0ooOo much more intellectual than Reed students, and to think otherwise is utterly ridiculous.</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>from Ghostt:</p>

<p>

“If you’re a genuine intellectual, live the life of the mind, and want to learn for the sake of learning, the place most likely to empower you is not Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Chicago, or Stanford. It is the most intellectual college in the country—Reed in Portland, Oregon.”</p>

<p>Thus spoke Loren Pope, former education editor for The New York Times. In the opinion of this man, who has spent his life studying the intricacies of higher education, at Reed you can receive an education that surpasses the standards set by the top-ranked universities in the nation.

</p>

<p>from Ghostt:</p>

<p>

That’s where you and I differ, then. (Which is not to say that I don’t think these universities are able to offer a great education to the intellectually inclined student–they obviously are. I think, however, that Reed can give its students things that Harvard, Yale and Princeton don’t have, by virtue of having a different ethos. Not all colleges offer the same things, which is why ranking them is pointless. Harvard is not a good fit for every type of person, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I wish people would stop with this one-size-fits-all nonsense.)

</p>

[tk21769]

<p>

Selectivity is an important metric, among many.

</p>

<p>Here are the top 100 schools by SAT scores:
[College</a> Rankings for Highest SAT 75th Percentile Scores](<a href=“USA University College Directory - U.S. University Directory - State Universities and College Rankings”>Top 500 Ranked Colleges - Highest SAT 75th Percentile Scores)
Notice that LACs and universities are interleaved throughout the list. </p>

<p>Even the bottom 25 include strong, respected schools (for example Wake Forest, UNC, Smith, the Air Force Academy, and Wisconsin). 1 in 4 students, or more, at all 100 schools score nearly 700 or above on the M and CR tests. If you look up the average HS GPAs and rank of students admitted to these same schools, you’ll find they are very high, too, throughout the list. The USA is a big country with lots of colleges. Most of the top 100 or so have become quite selective.</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>

It’s not an either/or, onecircuit. It’s an “and.” Reed being an excellent college doesn’t invalidate HYP being excellent colleges too. Why is it so threatening? Frankly, it’s both far more gracious and far more true to say that there are many excellent places to get an education, than to engage in the fiction that once you go beyond HYP, quality plummets.

</p>

<p>pizzagirl, please show us where I said that Reed College isn’t a great school?</p>

<p>it should be an easy copy/paste for you…</p>

<p>oh wait, you can’t because I never said that it isn’t a great school</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>

from Ghostt
I hope you’ll stop dredging up outdated statistics now (Reed’s acceptance rate is far below 47% or whatever)

</p>

<p>I posted a 43% acceptance rate for Reed College for the class entering fall 2010. </p>

<p>Acceptance Rate
7% — Harvard
8% — Yale
9% — Princeton
43% – Reed</p>

<p><a href=“College Navigator - Reed College”>College Navigator - Reed College;

<p>How about if you take the time to do some research and show us that it is far below 43%.</p>

<p>Looking forward to reviewing your response</p>

[Ghostt]

<p>

How about if you take the time to do some research and show us that it is far below 43%.

</p>

<p>It doesn’t take long to go to Reed’s official website:</p>

<p>

The overall admission rate for the class of 2011 is 33.1 percent.

</p>

<p>[Reed</a> College | News Center | Reed College admits 1,112 Students to Class of 2011 from a Record-Breaking Applicant Pool](<a href=“In the Media - Reed Magazine - Reed College”>In the Media - Reed Magazine - Reed College)</p>

<p>33.1 < 43</p>

<p>That was four years ago, and Reed has been receiving more and more applications every year. Logic dictates that its acceptance rate this year will be much lower than 33%.</p>

<p>Also, since you insist on responding to my posts, I would suggest that you reread them. Nowhere have I stated that Reed’s students are “more” anything than anyone else. In fact, the point you persist in missing is that education cannot be quantified.</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>Ghostt, ok thanks</p>

<p>so lets see, you quote an admissions rate from 4 years ago from the Reed College website that states that the admissions rate for the class of 2011 is 33%, and therefore this official IES website that states that the more current admissions rate of 43% for Reed College for the class entering in fall 2011 (class of 2014) is wrong?:</p>

<p>[College</a> Navigator - Reed College](<a href=“College Navigator - Reed College”>College Navigator - Reed College)</p>

<p>oh my…Reed College is reporting a 4 year old acceptance rate on its website as its latest acceptance rate…</p>

<p>now</p>

<p>why do you think that Reed College fails to report a more current acceptance rate?</p>

<p>mmmmmm, let me guess:</p>

<p>because its more current acceptance rate is higher?
because its more current acceptance rate is lower?</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>

from Ghostt:
Logic dictates that its acceptance rate this year will be much lower than 33%.

</p>

<p>wrong!</p>

<p>logic dictates that its acceptance rate this year will be much higher, otherwise they would not have skipped from publicly announcing the last 3 years worth of acceptance rates.</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>Reed College Acceptance rates</p>

<p>33% - Fall 2007 entering class (from the Reed Website)
41% - Fall 2009 entering class (from USNWR)
43% - Fall 2010 entering class (from IES Official website)
43% - (from CollegeBoard website)</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>oh, my…</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12132938-post91.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/12132938-post91.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>it appears that the Reed College admissions stats for the class entering in fall of 2009* have been on the Reed College website all along as part of its Common Data Set, but Ghostt instead decided to ignore the facts and post a 4 year old acceptance figure from the class entering in 2007.</p>

<p>here are the fall 2009* official Reed College acceptance figures:</p>

<p>[Reed</a> College 2010-11 Common Data Set SecC](<a href=“http://www.reed.edu/ir/cds/cds1011/cdssecc201011.html]Reed”>Reed College 2010-11 Common Data Set SecC - Institutional Research - Reed College)</p>

<p>3,075 - applicants
1,311 - acceptances</p>

<p>43% - acceptance rate</p>

<p>geesh Ghostt, if you are going to use facts to defend Reed College, then at least use the correct facts and avoid the deception that you have displayed here…</p>

<p>**note: It is not clear whether it is fall 2009 or 2010 Common Data Set, since Reed College interchanges the two years within the description of the data results.*</p>

[vonlost]

<p>When a person assumes that other people are lying or deceiving, instead of making mistakes, I generally assume that person is in the habit of lying and deceiving, so therefore assumes others do as well.</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>

from vossron:
When a person assumes that other people are lying or deceiving, instead of making mistakes, I generally assume that person is in the habit of lying and deceiving, so therefore assumes others do as well.

</p>

<p>ha!</p>

<p>I have saved this quote from vossron just so people can observe the kind of “intellectual” thinking that a Reed College student/parent is capable of…</p>

[onecircuit]

<p>

from vossron:</p>

<p>When a person assumes that other people are lying or deceiving, instead of making mistakes, I generally assume that person is in the habit of lying and deceiving, so therefore assumes others do as well.

</p>

<p>gee, you cannot be so far off if you tried ten times harder. As an example, so now you are accusing the US Attorneys and FBI Agents, that use their special investigative skills to uncover frauds by first assuming that lying and deceit is occurring, of actually being deceitful and liars themselves?</p>

<p>geesh!</p>

[vonlost]

<p>Reed student? I’m neither a student nor intellectual. Love your leaps! :)</p>

<p>Ah, FBI now. The entertainment level here is reaching new heights! :)</p>

[tk21769]

<p>Yes, the admit rate based on the 2010-11 CDS numbers, posted on Reed’s own site, is 43%. I doubt the school is trying to hide anything. Reed has long had a high admit rate compared to its average scores and GPAs. They are likely to attract a relatively small pool of relatively bookish applicants. Others don’t know about it or don’t bother to apply. </p>

<p>It’s not that Reed has the smartest students, the best faculty, the finest facilities, or the richest alumni. Nevertheless, it has a well conceived and executed liberal arts and science program. It is based on a pretty clear model of how to cultivate a liberally educated person. The approach to the admission interview, core courses, grading and testing, the thesis, campus activities (sports, Greek organizations, etc.), even their handling of the US News rankings, all contribute to the integrity of this model and to the perception that this is a rather intellectual place. The student outcomes reinforce this perception (not only 3rd in PhD production but also #2 among LACs for Peace Corps volunteers). </p>

<p>Compare Harvard College, where up to 40% of recent students go into investment banking or business consulting, and which ranks 121st for Peace Corps volunteers. Certainly Harvard produces brilliant scholarship but the place is also set up to cultivate other outcomes such as entrepreneurship. Reed strikes me not as more intellectual but as more exclusively intellectual.</p>

<p>By the way, here’s one of my favorite pieces of advice about the learning process and civil discourse:

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

</p>