<p>What are the current top 5 or 10 physics undergrad programs? My son wants to major in Theoretical Physics with the goal of becoming a college professor. How does Northwestern rate in Physics? I've seen older threads for this and Northwestern never appeared.</p>
<p>I forgot to also ask about University of Maryland in D.C. for Physics.</p>
<p>The Physics major in the College of Creative Studies at UCSB should be in any list of top programs. It’s essentially grad school starting right after HS. UCSB itself is host to the National Science Foundation’s Institute for Theoretical Physics, and its grad program is ranked in the top 5 in the country. CCS students essentially have the freedom to take any class they want, undergrad or grad, in pursuit of their goals.</p>
<p>Princeton, Stanford, MIT, Caltech.</p>
<p>I would add Harvard to Waverly’s list but otherwise I agree those are the best. Not quite as good as those but still very good would include Yale, Chicago, Williams. In this thread <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1324932-undergraduate-origins-harvard-physics-phds.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1324932-undergraduate-origins-harvard-physics-phds.html</a> I analyzed the number of Harvard physics phds that graduated from each college.</p>
<p>Honestly, any of the top schools will have a pretty good program in physics, since it’s a very fundamental field. Northwestern would be a great place to come from as a physics major, but so would many other schools. For the most part, physics majors will be learning the same things, often from the same standard textbooks.</p>
<p>By the way, your son won’t really be able to major in “theoretical physics,” although he can be a physics major who has the intention of going into theory. Either way, even as a theorist he should get involved with physics research in undergrad, as this is considered very important for grad school admissions.</p>
<p>[Undergraduate</a> Education - American Institute of Physics<a href=“Suggestion:%20%20start%20with%20the%20full%20report%20entitled,” title=“Does it matter where I go to college?”>/url</a></p>
<p>[url=<a href=“The Best College Rankings and Lists | Inside College | CollegeXpress”>The Best College Rankings and Lists | Inside College | CollegeXpress]Where</a> Physics PhDs Received Their Undergraduate Degrees | InsideCollege.com](<a href=“http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/undergradtrends.html]Undergraduate”>http://www.aip.org/statistics/trends/undergradtrends.html)
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1324932-undergraduate-origins-harvard-physics-phds.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1324932-undergraduate-origins-harvard-physics-phds.html</a>
[Best</a> Physics Programs | Top Physics Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/physics-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/physics-rankings)</p>
<p>[NTFUP[/url</a>]
This is a report on Strategic Programs for Innovations in Undergraduate Physics
[url=<a href=“http://www.aapt.org/Programs/projects/ntfup/casestudies.cfm]Case”>Case Studies]Case</a> Studies](<a href=“http://www.aapt.org/Programs/projects/ntfup.cfm]NTFUP[/url”>NTFUP)
At least read the full NTUFP “case study” reports on programs at:
Carleton College (starting on page 108)
Harvard (starting on page 114)
University of Illinois (starting on page 116)
In these 3 case studies you’ll read about features of high-quality physics programs at 1 small liberal arts college, 1 private research university, and 1 state “flagship” university.</p>
<p>Recommendations</p>
<p>Private Research Universities
Look at Caltech, Chicago, Cornell, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Princeton, Stanford, Yale, Penn, Rice
(Somewhat less selective: University of Rochester, Case Western)</p>
<p>Small Liberal Arts Colleges
Look at Carleton, Harvey Mudd, Reed, Williams
(Somewhat less selective: Lawrence University)</p>
<p>Public Research Universities
Look at Illinois, Michigan, UC Berkeley, UC Santa Barbara … and your own state flagship</p>
<p>Although physics classes cover roughly the same material it is not true that there are no differences between colleges. For example the physics classes at MIT cover significantly more material at a higher level than the ones at the University of Minnesota. The extent of this varies from class to class though. The intermediate classical mechanics mechanics class at MIT covers tons more than the similar class at the University of Minnesota. The intermediate E&M classes are more similar although the MIT class appears to cover a couple more chapters in Griffiths. MIT also offers 3 semesters of undergrad quantum compared to one at the University of Minnesota.</p>
<p>Although there won’t be a major in “theoretical physics” the OP’s son will likely have a number of physics electives and can choose to take more theoretical classes with those. Also it’s possible to do theoretical physics research which is something you should do if you want to go to grad school for theoretical physics.</p>
<p>I never said there would be no difference between schools, and I know for a fact that some of my physics courses at Rice covered more material in a shorter time than those of people I know who attended other schools. That said, I don’t think the differences are that stark, which is why I think trying to assemble a ranking of physics undergrad programs is not that helpful. If you’re looking at elite schools, as the OP apparently is with Northwestern, you’ll find a pretty good physics program basically everywhere and I think it’s much more important to focus on how happy you will be attending that school. Choosing the school with the most intense physics curriculum won’t necessarily make you any better of a physicist, especially since you’ll have to go to grad school to work in the field anyway.</p>
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<p>Right. But which differences really make a difference, for the outcomes one desires?</p>
<p>One take-away from the American Institute of Physics literature (cited above) is that you don’t necessarily need to attend one of the “top 5” or “top 10” to achieve those outcomes. Look at a larger set of schools across several categories (big, small, public, private) before deciding just what you want.</p>
<p>Anyway, even the best students face stiff competition for admission to the “top” schools.</p>
<p>Agree that you don’t have to go to a “top 5” or “top 10” (however that is defined) school to get a good physics undergraduate education.</p>
<p>Just be aware that physics is not that popular a major, especially at less selective schools. When considering smaller or less selective schools, check to be sure that their course offerings include the typical upper division physics core courses (see below); additional elective courses in your area of interest would be desirable. A good math department is also desirable, as physics majors are often recommended to take some upper division math courses.</p>
<p>Quantum mechanics
Analytic mechanics
Electromagnetism
Statistical and thermal physics
Advanced physics lab</p>
<p>Maybe for most students the differences aren’t that stark but I think for a very serious physic student who has taken lots of college physics in high school those differences may be much more important. The courses ucbalumnus listed should be considered absolute minimum requirements; any physics department that does not offer all of those is not providing a serious physics education. Particularly, if a student has substantial background in physics they’ll want a number of other electives or more advanced physics classes. Granted if there is a phd program in physics students should be able to take graduate classes as well which would presumably provide good preparation.</p>
<p>I haven’t examined the physics curricula of many schools in-depth, UMTYMP, but I have a hard time imagining any of the better private or public schools not offering all the classes mentioned by ucbalumnus as well as various upper-level courses. Perhaps at some LACs you would be limited due to lack of graduate courses and substantial research, but I really think that if a student is shooting for top-tier schools the differences between the physics programs will not have a substantial effect on their education.</p>
<p>For graduate school admissions in general, where you go to school is less important than what you do there. In some ways, being a big fish in a small pond can be good - since you will be competing with fewer people for slots in research labs, and will be more likely to compare favorably with your classmates when your recommenders are writing your letters. (That’s not to say that any old school will do, but a public university or small college can be as good a choice as a big private for certain students).</p>
<p>Also, as another note - even if there are very famous physicists at a given college, it is unlikely that a physics undergrad student will work closely with them. I am a grad student who works with a famous methodologist in my field; the undergrads are mostly mentored and directed by postdocs and grad students. These famous researchers also often buy out their teaching time with research funds, so often they are not teaching or they teach one class a year to graduate students. Not saying that having access to these guys is not a good thing, but it may not be as much of a boon as people think.</p>
<p>Any major research university will have those classes and some but not all elite LACs will as well. There is probably no method that will measure differences in learning and graduate placement that will satisfy everybody but in my thread that I linked to above I found the majority of Harvard physics phds came from just seven undergrad institutions: Princeton, Stanford, Harvard, MIT, Yale, Caltech, and Chicago so that’s something to consider. It’s definitely possible to get into an elite physics graduate program from other schools it’s just much rarer. I think a major factor in that is the effect of peers. At the above mentioned schools there are a lot of really good physics students while at other schools there are many less and that really changes the dynamic.</p>