Top Premed Programs - Let's Look at Some Actual Data

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>OK, so I got really bored and I really like this stuff and was interested. It's NOT AS MUCH WORK AS IT LOOKS LIKE, but I went ahead and looked at medical residency programs roster lists and bios for residents in a variety of specialties in many different geographical locations throughout the U.S. I only looked at U.S. undergraduate schools, but I tallied which schools placed the greatest number of alumni in residencies. Then, I took the schools with the highest tally and did a comparison on a per capita basis. Now, having said that, there may be some bias in this data because of the choices of residency programs (location, home institution, etc.) but I relied on the data I had access to because the majority of programs do not provide access to information on undergraduate schools attended.</p>

<p>It was kind of scary to me that the top 35 schools by number only represented 48% of medical residents' U.S. undergraduate school backgrounds. It was surprising to me that such a large number of alumni of institutions I would describe as less or non-competitive are currently working as physicians. There is a big difference between getting an A at UC Berkeley or Cornell in premed science coursework than someplace like Manhattanville College, St. Bonaventure U, or Cal State U - Chico. I'm surprised more premeds don't turn to easy colleges where SAT averages are 1100 or below and less than a 1/4 of students were in the top 10% of their high schools classes and beat out the competition there as opposed to going to Ivies and the like where SAT averages are 1400+ and 85%+ of students were in the top 10% of their high school class.</p>

<p>I am VERY RELUCTANT to provide data for institutions outside the top 35 because it may not be reflective. With smaller schools, the chances of an institution getting lucky with a few extra residents or being underrepresented is much higher than for larger institutions, and small differences can make a huge difference in the data.</p>

<p>The data may be surprising, but keep in mind that some residency programs were MUCH LARGER than others and some provided more biographical data than others.</p>

<p>The following residencies were included:</p>

<p>Anesthesiology, Columbia
Anesthesiology, Harbor UCLA
Anesthesiology, U Vermont
Child Neurology, Boston Children's Hospital
Dermatology, East Carolina U
Dermatology, Loyola U - Chicago
Dermatology, Medical College of Wisconsin
Dermatology, NYU Langone
Dermatology, Oregon Health & Science U
Dermatology, U Connecticut
Dermatology, U Massachusetts
Dermatology, U Missouri - Columbia
Dermatology, UC Davis
Dermatology, USC
Dermatology, Wake Forest U
Dermatology/Cutaneous Surgery, Miami/Jackson
Emergency Medicine, Cooper University Hospital
Emergency Medicine, Cornell/Columbia NY
Emergency Medicine, Denver Health
Emergency Medicine, George Washington U
Emergency Medicine, Northwestern
Emergency Medicine, NYU
Emergency Medicine, SUNY - Buffalo
Emergency Medicine, U Arizona
Emergency Medicine, U Cincinatti
Emergency Medicine, U Nevada - Las Vegas
Emergency Medicine, U Pennsylvania
Emergency Medicine, UCLA
Emergency Medicine, UCSF Fresno
Emergency Medicine, Washington U in St. Louis
Emergency Medicine/Pediatrics, U Maryland
Family Medicine, Albert Einstein College of Med.
Family Medicine, Boston U
Family Medicine, Brown
Family Medicine, Concord Hospital, NH
Family Medicine, Glendale Adventist
Family Medicine, Harbor/UCLA
Family Medicine, Jefferson Medical College
Family Medicine, Marquette U
Family Medicine, O.C. Kaiser Medical Center
Family Medicine, Tufts
Family Medicine, U Colorado - Rose
Family Medicine, U Illinois - Chicago
Family Medicine, U Nevada - Las Vegas
Family Medicine, U New Mexico
Family Medicine, U Pennsylvania
Family Medicine, UCSF Fresno
General Surgery, Maine Health
General Surgery, Medical College of Georgia
General Surgery, Vanderbilt
Head and Neck Surgery, George Washington U
Head and Neck Surgery, Stanford
Head and Neck Surgery, U Virginia
Infectious Diseases, Johns Hopkins
Internal Medicine, Baylor U
Internal Medicine, Brigham Women's Hospital
Internal Medicine, Harbor/UCLA
Internal Medicine, Harvard/Cambridge Alliance
Internal Medicine, Loyola U - Chicago
Internal Medicine, Medical College of Georgia
Internal Medicine, Oregon Health/Sciences U
Internal Medicine, Tulane U
Internal Medicine/Pediatrics, U Chicago
Internal Medicine/Pediatrics, U Maryland
Internal Medicine/Pediatrics, UCSD
Internal Medicine/Pediatrics, Vanderbilt
Internal Medicine/Psychiatry, Rush U
Laboratory Medicine, Yale
Neurological Surgery, U Pittsburgh
Neurology, Columbia
Neurology, Georgetown
Neurology, Johns Hopkins
Neurology, Medical College of Georgia
Neurology, U Alabama
Neurology, U North Carolina - Chapel Hill
Neurology, U Virginia
Neurology, Washington U in St. Louis
Neurosurgery, Brigham and Women's Hospital
Neurosurgery, Cleveland Clinic
Neurosurgery, Harvard/Massachusetts General
Neurosurgery, Johns Hopkins
Neurosurgery, Mount Sinai
Neurosurgery, Rush U
Neurosurgery, Stanford
Neurosurgery, SUNY - Buffalo
Neurosurgery, U Cincinatti
Neurosurgery, U Pennsylvania
Neurosurgery, U Rochester
Neurosurgery, Wake Forest U
Obsectrics & Gynecology, NYU
Obsectrics & Gynecology, Tufts
Obsectrics & Gynecology, White Memoral L.A.
Obsetrics & Gynecology, Columbia
Obsetrics & Gynecology, Franklin Square
Obsetrics & Gynecology, Northwestern
Obsetrics & Gynecology, UMDNJ
Obstetrics & Gynecology, U Illinois - Chicago
Opthalmology, Albany Medical College
Opthalmology, Cook County, Illinois
Opthalmology, New Jersey Medical School
Opthalmology, Stanford
Opthalmology, Washington U in st. Louis
Opthalmology/Eye Center, Emory
Opthalomology, U Michigan
Orthopaedic Surgery, Georgetown
Orthopaedic Surgery, U Chicago
Orthopaedic Surgery, U Missouri - Kansas City
Orthopaedics & Rehabilitation, U New Mexico
Orthopaedics & Sports Medicine, U South Florida
Orthopaedics, Case Western Reserve U
Orthopaedics, Columbia
Orthopaedics, Emory
Orthopaedics, Loma Linda U
Orthopaedics, U North Caroilna - Chapel Hill
Orthopaedics, U Virginia
Orthopedic Surgery, NYMC Manhattan
Orthopedic Surgery, U Michigan
Orthopedic Surgery, UCSF
Otalryngology, Baylor College of Medicine
Otolarngology, U Missouri - Columbia
Otolaryngology, Georgetown
Otolaryngology, Jefferson Medical College
Otolaryngology, U Colorado Health Science
Otolaryngology, Vanderbilt
Otolaryngology, Virginia Commonwealth U
Pathology, Dartmouth
Pathology, U Texas - Houston
Pathology, U Washington
Pathology, UCSD
Pathology/Laboratory Medicine, Columbia
Pathology/Laboratory Medicine, U Louisville
Pediatrics, Albany Medical College
Pediatrics, Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Pediatrics, Brown
Pediatrics, Children's Memorial Hospital Chicago
Pediatrics, U Chicago
Pediatrics, U Hawaii
Pediatrics, U Virginia
Pediatrics, U Washington
Pediatrics, UCLA
Pediatrics, UCSF
Pediatrics, Vanderbilt
Pediatrics, Yale
Pediatrics/General, U Maryland
Plastic & Reconstructive Surgery, Northwestern
Plastic & Reconstructive Surgery, UNC - CH
Plastic & Reconstructive Surgery, Wake Forest U
Preliminary Internal Medicine, Brigham Women's
Psychiatry, Cornell
Psychiatry, Mount Sinai
Psychiatry, U Iowa
Psychiatry, U Kentucky
Psychiatry, U Michigan
Psychiatry, U North Carolina - Chapel Hill
Psychiatry, UC Irvine
Psychiatry, UCLA
Radiation Oncology, Los Angeles Kaiser
Radiology, Duke
Radiology, Georgetown
Radiology, Johns Hopkins
Radiology, U Kentucky
Rehabilitation Medicine, U Texas - San Antonio
Surgery, Jefferson Medical College
Surgery, Kaiser Los Angeles
Surgery, Texas Tech
Thoracic Surgery, Stanford
Transitional Internal Medicine, Riverside VA
Urological Surgery, Washington U in St. Louis
Urology, Emory
Urology, Loyola U - Chicago
Urology, Northwestern
Urology, U Connecticut
Urology, UC Irvine
Vascular Surgery/Research, UCSF</p>

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<p>Top Undergraduate Representation at Medical Residency Programs (2009 Study)</p>

<p>Master List of Top Programs in Alphabetical Order</p>

<ul>
<li> Brown</li>
<li> Columbia</li>
<li> Cornell</li>
<li> Dartmouth</li>
<li> Duke</li>
<li> Emory</li>
<li> Georgetown</li>
<li> Harvard</li>
<li> Johns Hopkins</li>
<li> MIT</li>
<li> Northwestern</li>
<li> Princeton</li>
<li> Rice U</li>
<li> Stanford</li>
<li> U Chicago</li>
<li> U Michigan</li>
<li> U Notre Dame</li>
<li> U Pennsylvania</li>
<li> U Virginia</li>
<li> UC Berkeley</li>
<li> UCLA</li>
<li> Vanderbilt</li>
<li> Washington U in St. Louis</li>
<li> Yale</li>
</ul>

<p>Per Capita</p>

<ol>
<li> Harvard (1.5424)</li>
<li> Yale (1.2318)</li>
<li> Duke (1.2161)</li>
<li> Brown (1.0336)</li>
<li> Stanford (1.0140)</li>
<li> Rice U (0.9829)</li>
<li> Johns Hopkins (0.9275)</li>
<li> Dartmouth (0.8681)</li>
<li> U Pennsylvania (0.8303)</li>
<li>Princeton (0.8231)</li>
<li>Columbia (0.8117)</li>
<li>MIT (0.7705)</li>
<li>Northwestern (0.7551)</li>
<li>U Chicago (0.7108)</li>
<li>Emory (0.6905)</li>
<li>Vanderbilt (0.6780)</li>
<li>U Notre Dame (0.6457)</li>
<li>Washington U in St. Louis (0.5870)</li>
<li>Cornell (0.4911)</li>
<li>U Virginia (0.4471)</li>
<li>Georgetown (0.4371)</li>
<li>UCLA (0.4070)</li>
<li>UC Berkeley (0.3857)</li>
<li>U Michigan (0.3347)</li>
</ol>

<p>By Number</p>

<ol>
<li> UCLA (108)</li>
<li> Harvard (103)</li>
<li> UC Berkeley (97)</li>
<li> U Michigan (87)</li>
<li> U Pennsylvania (81)</li>
<li> Duke (79)</li>
<li> Stanford (68)</li>
<li> Cornell (68)</li>
<li> U Virginia (68)</li>
<li>Yale (65)</li>
<li>Northwestern (64)</li>
<li>Brown (63)</li>
<li>U Illinois – Urbana/Champaign (60)</li>
<li>U Notre Dame (54)</li>
<li>UCSD (53)</li>
<li>Columbia (46)</li>
<li>Vanderbilt (45)</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins (44)</li>
<li>U Wisconsin – Madison (43)</li>
<li>Brigham Young U (42)</li>
<li>Princeton (41)</li>
<li>U North Carolina – Chapel Hill (41)</li>
<li>Washington U in St. Louis (41)</li>
<li>U Florida (40)</li>
<li>U Georgia (38)</li>
<li>Dartmouth (36)</li>
<li>U Chicago (36)</li>
<li>Emory (36)</li>
<li>U Maryland (34)</li>
<li>MIT (32)</li>
<li>U Washington (32)</li>
<li>U Colorado – Boulder (32)</li>
<li>U Texas – Austin (32)</li>
<li>Georgetown (31)</li>
<li>Rice U (31)</li>
</ol>

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<p>

</p>

<p>I have no idea what you mean by that. There is no correlation whatsoever between “undergraduate institution” and getting into a “medical residency”.</p>

<p>Almost all med students get into a residency program. What’s your point?</p>

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<p>^Ditto, I am not surprised that so many students came from public schools. If anything, the OP should be surprised that so much talent comes from 35 schools out of thousands.</p>

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<p>While the work is impressive…you don’t have a realistic sample and your conclusions are going to suffer in the extreme because of it. You have 12 derm programs and 12 pediatrics programs. But there are only ~350 derm spots available…and about 2400 pediatrics spots available. Even more egregious is only listing 8 Internal Medicine programs, when there were 4922 IM spots available in the 2009 Match.</p>

<p>So…if you want to draw any significant conclusions, you need to adjust your sample to more accurately reflect reality.</p>

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<p>O_O! I do not get this data lol. What does it say?</p>

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<p>Myopinion, it’s not clear to me what you don’t get. The data suggests that certain undergraduate schools are more likely than others to produce medical school graduates that enter residencies (i.e. become physicians). It is a metric for looking at per capita medical school placement and subsequent graduation and match.</p>

<p>dragonneedspank, in order to know what the data means I would suggest reading the entire post and if there is something you don’t understand specifically I can help clarify it for you.</p>

<p>mmmcdowe, no one said anything about being surprised by the percentage that come from “public schools.” Many come from privates with very different admissions and academic standards as well. Whether or not they are public or not is not suggested in my post nor is it really relevant. As we should understand, college accreditation is a very lenient and broad process that is inclusive of schools that really don’t have academic programs I would say are anywhere near comparable to the top schools. The same applies to the pre-med competition at the undergraduate level. The fact that accreditation is the only thing that is considered and that undergraduate institution does not way more in the process (which is suggested by the % data) in my opinion does have an impact on the quality of the medical school matriculating classes.</p>

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<p>Bigredmd, I think you are a little off on the source of bias. I discussed some of the sources of bias in my original post…The choice to use dermatology residencies at a higher level or other highly competitive subspecialties was to some extent a conscious decision (part of it was that I used the data that I could get my hands on) because dermatology (in particular) is an incredibly competitive residency to match in. Take a look at this article in the NYTimes (<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/fashion/19beauty.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/fashion/19beauty.html&lt;/a&gt;). Looking at dermatology residents gives a better indication of the undergraduate schools producing top performing medical students that were able to succeed at earning a spot at one of the toughest residencies to get. In other words, the skew towards the most exceptional medical students that were able to secure the most competitive residency specialties I think is actually a plus for the data as opposed to a negative. I originally only wanted to look at the top residency programs (by NIH funding) or more competitive specialties originally to see what undergraduate schools produced top performers, but I decided I need more data and greater geographic diversity. Obviously many of the best medical students (in terms of board squares, members of the honor society, etc.) are not interested in going into fields like derm, plastics, etc. but that doesn’t negate the fact that those fields are more competitive.</p>

<p>Also, in terms of internal medicine and pediatrics, it is important to note that each individual residency program in internal medicine and pediatrics is also much larger than some of the subspecialties like dermatology as well, and therefore one residency does not equal the same amount of data (or same quantity of resident undergraduate school matriculation), so that criticism doesn’t reflect the information I received.</p>

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<p>Why do you have two accounts?</p>

<p>Anyways, you are right I should have said “non top 35” rather than public.</p>

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<p>Oops! I was going to reply to the OP about how she has drawn some erroneous conclusions, but since there is a “ban” in the making I won’t bother. She won’t have the opportunity of a reply.</p>

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<p>[Michigan</a> orthopedic surgery](<a href=“http://hollandboneandjoint.com/]Michigan”>http://hollandboneandjoint.com/)
Even if what you say is true which I doubt. What is the problem? Education is meant to be inclusive right?</p>

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<p>Well, while some might rely on this, I would not support this approach to choosing UG for pre-med. 4 most important years of your life are better be spent at place that matches you the best, not the place that produces the best numbers. This type of strategy will backfire, it will not work in most cases, unless UG also happen to be the best place based on personal criteria. There is NO generic best UG for pre-med, it does not exist.</p>

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<p>Closing old thread by banned member.</p>