top programs

<p>What programs are ranked at the top for landing their graduates jobs after graduation?
I know someone has done an analysis. I just need a top 10 list . Thanks</p>

<p>Not sure there is such a list, but this article might help you. <a href=“How Do You Get to Broadway? - WSJ”>http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323401904578157100460419438&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>after the usuals, like Michigan, CMU and CCM . where to the others fall in? Like Ithaca, Emerson, Hartt school
etc etc</p>

<p>There are many old threads on this topic, enjoy:</p>

<p><a href=“Best Musical Theatre Schools based on Broadway Alumni - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1479281-best-musical-theatre-schools-based-on-broadway-alumni.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1116787-colleges-did-current-broadway-performers-attend-10.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1116787-colleges-did-current-broadway-performers-attend-10.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Top MT BFA Programs? - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/912438-top-mt-bfa-programs-p1.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Musical Theater College Ranking: Opinions? - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/439469-musical-theater-college-ranking-opinions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/115201-best-programs.htmlhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/571238-best-musical-theater-schools.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/115201-best-programs.htmlhttp://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/571238-best-musical-theater-schools.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“Your Opinions: BFA MT College Rankings - Musical Theater Major - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/205286-your-opinions-bfa-mt-college-rankings.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/389999-mt-colleges-tiers.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/389999-mt-colleges-tiers.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/317121-top-10-whatever-musical-theatre-programs.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/317121-top-10-whatever-musical-theatre-programs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1337495-college-prepares-you-best-broadway.html#post14356230”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/musical-theater-major/1337495-college-prepares-you-best-broadway.html#post14356230&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Even if you are just crunching numbers, there are obviously lots of different ways to go at this. My post last March, which was based solely on broadway actors over a 2 year period (53 total shows), could in itself produce >10 different top 10 lists; depending on how long ago kids graduated, whether the list is normalized to class size, total roles or total actors, leads or ensemble, trending (slopes) of this data, etc. If I had to chose one list from my data, I would go with “fraction of young grads (or left early) that appeared in one of the 53 shows in my database”. So, if you want a 10 top list based on numbers here you go (but you’ll find that you’ve stumbled on a big nerve, which I masochistically continue to do).</p>

<ol>
<li>Michigan</li>
<li>CCM</li>
<li>CMU</li>
<li>Elon</li>
<li>BaldwinW</li>
<li>Tisch</li>
<li>FloridaSt</li>
<li>PennSt</li>
<li>Ithaca
10(tie) OCU
10(tie) Syracuse</li>
</ol>

<p>But better if you go to the post itself, which EmsDad put first in his list, to decide if and how you could use this data. Some lists go much deeper than 10, but once you get past 10 to 20 schools deep the statistics get so light that they can become almost meaningless (plus they are now almost a year old).</p>

<p>Top programs really is such a different list depending on who you ask. Even if you are looking at statistics of landing jobs. You could mean landing jobs in the field, regionally, on cruise lines or broadway. Also you have to factor in schools that pick a polished performer and those who pick a certain type. If you are looking to find a school it really is about fit and the training you are looking for.</p>

<p>I agree , the top program is where the student is going to be the happiest. It’s hard trying to figure out where that is. In my case , my kid wants a good program but also wants to enjoy the full college experience . </p>

<p>@Neuroticstagedad - it is very hard to come up with a list. You might want to try looking at some of the freshman experience posts. Some programs don’t allow for the time to do other things in college because basically you are doing a triple major. Take a look at the schools curriculum as well and that could help to get a feel for the program too. Many times a school will put you in contact with a student if you want and then you can see what their days are like and if you can fit in other activities. </p>

<p>Is this a fair comparison?</p>

<p>The top 12 schools with the most former players in the NFL 2013 season are as follows:</p>

<ol>
<li>USC: 40</li>
<li>LSU: 39</li>
<li>Miami: 38</li>
<li>Georgia: 36</li>
<li>Florida State: 31</li>
<li>Texas: 31</li>
<li>Alabama: 30</li>
<li>Cal: 30</li>
<li>Tennessee: 30</li>
<li>Ohio State: 27</li>
<li>Oregon: 27</li>
<li>Florida: 26</li>
</ol>

<p>Mississippi Valley State has produced 26 NFL players from 1961-2007. (Including Hall of Famers Deacon Jones and Jerry Rice.)</p>

<p>If your goal was to play in the NFL, where would you want to go to school, if you could?</p>

<p>Actually, Manvan, I’ve often compared MT college auditions to what some HS athletes face in their college selection process – it’s the closest comparison my friends can understand. I suppose if there was a true NCAA-style recruiting system for MT, it would be a fair comparison.</p>

<p>Having said that, here’s the thing: Even if you could come up with the real list of “top programs” in MT (and we’ve tried over the years on these boards), I’m not sure it matters all that much, since many MT applicants already seem to have at least one, if not all, of the “usual suspects” in their audition schedule – simply because they want a chance. (Basically, I’m saying everyone applies to the big-name programs, and, honestly, these days, it seems like everyone applies to the rest of the programs too.) But in the end, once your child’s audition is over, we really have no control over the process. If your kid is what that school wants AND needs, they get accepted. (Then, if you can afford your kid to go, you send them. Yes. Think about that. What if your kid gets into a “top” program and you cannot afford to send them?) As much as we wish it was, It’s not like wanting your kid to apply to the top-10 accounting schools, and if he/she meets that school’s minimum criteria, they’re pretty much in. It’s also not like being an All-American high school football prospect and being recruited by all the top schools with the prospect of a full-ride. </p>

<p>So let’s say we had a list of the top 5 or 10 schools. Your kid could apply to all of them and get into none of them. And your kid could still be SUPREMELY talented and have overlooked amazing new, rising star programs or programs located out of the northeast or even overseas. In the end, the best advice we ever received still stands: Yes, throw all those amazing top-tier programs into your list, but have a well-balanced list with some non-audition safeties and smaller programs you can afford on there too, because the competition really is fierce and the schools are expensive. </p>

<p>Lastly, I would add that we also have to consider what success really looks like for these kids. While Broadway Playbill mentions are obviously an excellent measure of a program’s success, what about students who go on to MFA programs; who become composers; or choreographers; who move into writing, directing or casting; who become arts educators? What if they go right into commercials, TV or film? Or, what about the numerous actors in smaller regional theatres, either as performers or as owners or producers, or those who go into arts management/administration. These career paths may not be reflected in any measure we can track here, but are all wonderful pursuits MT majors can take that are artistically fulfilling. </p>

<p>Bravo(a), @MTTwinsinCA. Could not have articulated my feelings as well as you did. I agree wholeheartedly with all of the points you make. I think that “happiness” is all of us parents’ ultimate goals for your children. What that looks like is different for every child, and some will find it where they least expect to find it. Some will find it in a top 10 program but the majority will find it elsewhere. My D dreams of performing on Broadway one day like all of the rest, but just recently she admitted that she was SO inspired by what Kaitlin Hopkins is doing at Texas State University in San Marcos that she love to “also” to work in a program such as theirs one day (after she makes it on Broadway, of course! LOL!). It is an up & coming program. Kaitlin’s first graduating seniors which she has nurtured all four years haven’t even graduated yet. They do this year so only time will tell how well they fare. How many other wonderful programs like Texas State’s are out there being overlooked because everyone is so fixated on what they perceive to be the “Top 10”. And the funny thing is that the “top 5” or “10” change all the time! Just listen to Dave Clemmons talk about who’s hot and who’s not, and who is up-and-coming. Granted, it only his opinion, but he backs his opinions with so much data, names, and details that one is hardpressed to argue with him.! I hope ALL of our children find their happiness in this crazy industry they’ve all fallen in love with in spite of whatever the odds may indicate. I think the more options they keep open, the better the odds, don’t you? And a Bravo/Brava to all of you parents who continue to support your children’s dreams…despite of whatever the odds may indicate! :)</p>

<p>Well said @MTTwinsinCA! When my S was considering schools, yes he looked at those in proximity to NYC, and briefly considered those in the western half of US, but in the end he decided to limit his choices to those within a day’s drive of our midwestern home. We are fortunate to have several “top” schools that fit that criteria - and he auditioned for those. But when it comes to being able to get your kid home for Thanksgiving, or Winter break, or being able to actually see your kid in a show without breaking the bank or using all your vacation time, or, God forbid, they should get sick (yes, it’s happened) and need help, we were glad S could be so level headed. The rest of the “choosing” had to do with what he wanted to be able to get out of the experience - and that’s different for everyone.</p>

<p>Here’s a question. Do the top schools make the kids great or do the great kids make the schools top schools? Is the teaching really any better at the top 10 schools? or do they just attract kids who will make it regardless of where they go. Just like in football , the reason certain schools produce a lot of NFL players is because they are able to recruit the most talented players. When its all said and done, when someone is auditioning for broadway, tv or movies, the most talented people will be cast. I doubt if they look to see where they were trained. Where you go might help you get an agent or manager a little easier but it wont land you a job</p>

<p>Tennessee cause when else can I wear orange LOL</p>

<p>Probably a chicken-egg argument and I’m not sure it matters, because you don’t really get to pick from the “top schools.” You only get to pick whether or not to audition – and many, many, many kids do audition for the big-name schools because they want a shot. Use Michigan as an example. Does knowing that Michigan is a top school with a proven track record help a prospective MT kid in any tangible way? (Other than ensuring that lots and lots of kids will want to apply?) And by the way, I think everyone who dreams of going to Michigan for MT and can afford it and/or qualify for need-based aid, SHOULD apply. (Same for other “top programs”) As my mom would say, “ya gotta be in it to win it.” But you can make yourself crazy trying to figure this out – which schools have the best-connected alumni, which schools have the best showcase, which schools have the most leads on Broadway right now, which schools have the most famous teachers? Just have a well-rounded list, have a mix of schools on there and hope your kid is lucky to have a few awesome schools to choose from at the end of the audition process. Every year we hear about kids who turn down “big-name” schools for newer programs, so it’s all very subjective. (geography, friends, finances, the “vibe” of a campus – all are factors). After acceptance time, you go visit and you see where your kid makes a connection and really “see themselves” succeeding. The MT world is its own strange animal. Right now there are Michigan grads and Carnegie grads auditioning against seasoned Broadway vets and kids with no college degrees and in the end, some kid voted off “American Idol” might get the part. All we can do is encourage our kids to do the work at whatever school they land (either due to auditions or finances) – be that at your local state college or Big Name U. And just because Big Name U has ## Tony Winners, doesn’t mean that your kid can’t be a big star after graduating from Up-And-Coming U. (I’ll share that my local Cal State School – Cal State Northridge – actually does have a Tony Winner in its theatre alumni, Bill Irwin. And CSUN turns out working actors all the time – people well-connected to the industry here in LA. But I doubt it’s making many top-ten theatre school lists… But for kids from our local HS, for whom going away for college is out of the question, it is still an excellent choice.)</p>

<p>The difference between playing in the NFL and appearing on Broadway in this analogy, primarily, is that success for the recruits is playing in the NFL. Most theatre grads will never appear on Broadway. Football recruits who don’t make the NFL will have very limited opportunities to play football for a living. Theatre grads have many options other than Broadway, thankfully, because as I said, most of these kids will never set foot on a Broadway stage. The other difference is that there are many, many successful actors who do, indeed, make it to Broadway who have not attended a ‘top’ college program, or any program at all! It is far more common than it is for a player to make it to the NFL in a similar way.</p>

<p>Let me pose this scenario based on two BFA Musical Theatre programs in my home state, Missouri:</p>

<p>Webster University has a Conservatory MT BFA program. This school has produced Norbert Leo Butz , Jerry Mitchell, and Hunter Bell. The annual total undergraduate cost of the conservatory is X.</p>

<p>Missouri State University has a Conservatory MT BFA program. This school has produced Deidra Goodwin and Kyle Dean Massey. The annual total undergraduate cost of the conservatory is >.5X.</p>

<p>We personally know graduates from both programs and we have friends who have sent their kids to both programs.</p>

<p>If where you go to school is not a determining factor or indicator of future success and if it’s all kind-of a crap-shoot anyway, is “right-fit” enough of a reason to put one student though college when you could have put two students through college?</p>

<p>(BTW, this scenario also applies to any degree program you may want to pick between the two schools.) </p>

<p>As one of at least a few CC families I know of with two MT kids in college at the same time – I think you’re onto something, @ManVan! Merit aid ABSOLUTELY played into where my boys ended up for MT programs. No doubt. </p>

<p>Adding on – it’s a balancing act figuring out how much to weigh price vs fit vs school reputation vs other factors. Everyone, get out your scales! ;)</p>

<p>Well, the first question is does a school “produce” stars or would those 3 people have been just as successful if they went elsewhere. Also, it’s only 3 people over quite a few years so what happened to everybody else? </p>

<p>And people will forever argue about what schools are top schools. We know both a Webster grad and a Webster drop-out. The grad’s mom thinks it’s a top school. But the drop-out’s mom, not so much. </p>