This isn’t necessarily specific to this thread, but thought should be given by anyone seeking an excellent undergraduate department as to the ways in which the experience of taking the 10-15 courses for a given major will be materially affected by the difference between doing that within a universe of, for example, three dozen courses versus, also for example, twice that number. More choice can of course be better for some students with specialized interests, but other students may simply find that a smaller department gives them essentially uncompromised choice – in that they would take roughly the same courses in either environment anyway – and perhaps a better opportunity to work closely with outstanding faculty. In terms of classics departments, this distinction relates to why Dartmouth (though technically disqualified by the OP) can be classified as a “TIER 3” school by one poster (#7) and confidently endorsed by another (#16).
@iEmmyG - she wants to go to university in the USA and we are fine with that. But you raise a good point, as she will probably do a semester or summer abroad in Greece/Italy.
Chicago and Columbia, in that order because of their Great Books curricula.
The number of courses taken may be the same, but the number of courses offered can be dramatically different, something to keep in mind for a student who likes some flexibility in choices or scheduling.
For example, let’s take Hamilton. This semester it’s offering only two Greek courses, intro Greek and an upper-level course in biblical Greek. The same holds true at Colgate, which is offering intro Greek and an upper-level course on Thucydides enrolling 6 students, and Middlebury, offering only an upper-level course in Greek literature enrolling 9 students.
For comparison, Brown is offering 5 upper-level Greek courses (6 if you include graduate-level), providing a much wider variety of courses and much more flexibility in course scheduling – all rather small (3, 3, 3, 6, 7, and 8 students). For those who prefer the small social environment of a LAC, there’s colleges like Amherst, which is offering three upper-level courses in Greek this semester (Greek tragedy, New Testament, and Plato’s Symposium).
Big difference, eh? At Hamilton or Colgate, if you have another class that’s meeting on Wednesdays at 9 or if you don’t like the professor…well, you’re out of luck. If you’re at Amherst or Brown, you have more room to work around such issues. You’ll also find that a professor going on sabbatical or leaving for another college – neither of which is an uncommon occurrence – has a much greater effect in a small department.
As for getting to “work more closely with outstanding faculty,” that has much less to do with the number of faculty members and much more to do with the ratio of students to faculty and the emphasis a department places on undergraduate education…as well as how proactive a particular student is.
I know of a student at Berkeley who got to know her professors extremely well, went on funded excavations in the Mediterranean, and was given a grant to do thesis research in the British Museum; she got into every graduate program she applied to. As another example, a student at Duke developed a strong interest in Greek-Persian interactions after several Greek and Greek history classes; he learned Old Persian as an independent study with a professor and was given a research grant to pursue senior thesis research on inscriptions in the British Museum. (Yes, the BM is amazing.) A Princeton student, dissatisfied with studying the same literary texts that have been studied for centuries, tackled unedited papyri in Princeton’s papyrology collection for her senior thesis, a very impressive task indeed for an undergraduate. This notion that undergraduates at top universities are neglected is a very odd one on CC, particularly in such small and specialized subjects.
Re #23: While the post is a generally useful discussion of various programs, the mention of Amherst College as a standout among LACs with classics programs is an interesting one. Amherst is offering eight courses this semester through its classics department. This contrasts unfavorably with the other LAC programs mentioned as being, by implication, average in their offerings, with Middlebury, Hamilton and Colgate offering 13, 10 and 10 courses, respectively, this fall semester through their equivalent departments.
Am I reading the Hamilton catalog incorrectly? In addition to the Greek language classes mentioned by
Warblersrule, I see three classes studying Greek texts this fall: Homer, historians, and drama.
On another note, I heard Anthony Grafton of Princeton rave about a classics program called the Paideia Institute, in which people actually speak Latin and classic Greek. They offer a high school program in Latin. A student doing this program might stand out when applying to colleges.
“Am I reading the Hamilton catalog correctly?” (#25)
This semester Hamilton is offering five courses in classical studies, which mostly relate to the cultures of ancient Greece, Rome and Egypt, as well as five courses in classical languages – three in Latin and two in Greek. In total, Hamilton offers 40 courses through its classics department.
The best way to gauge what is offered in practice vs. what is in the catalogue is to look at the registrar’s site for any school and find the schedule of classes for each semester. But, be sure to look around at how they categorize it. For example, a Classics department’s courses might be listed with the civilization courses offered in English under Classics, while the language courses might be listed under the languages themselves. Just saying “three in Latin” does not give an indication of what levels – it might be a beginner, an intermediate, and then an advanced course, so a given student may really have only one choice. I am a huge LAC proponent / parent of an LAC Classics major, but the posters are right: students need to know whether they will want more variety to choose from each semester. It’s not that they will end up taking more Classics at a university vs. and LAC, but that they are most likely to have greater flexibility in choosing their schedule.
My son might actually have found choosing courses at a university overwhelming. There’s very little he’s NOT interested in (not just in Classics, but knowledge in general), so an LAC is a better fit in that regard for him. There are only so many courses a student can fit in their schedule, so not having as many to choose from may or may not be as important, particularly if a student wants to get a broad education.