Top schools without a lot of drinking?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>As I compile my college list, I've been trying to find schools where the party scene doesn't dominate the social atmosphere.</p>

<p>I'm not talking about schools where everyone studies 24/7; I'm just looking for a top college where kids realize you don't have to get drunk to have a good time.</p>

<p>As a non-drinker myself, I'm okay with parties, but I want to go to someplace where I won't be in the minority, where people appreciate the fun in a weekend activity other than getting wasted. I'd prefer a school in, say, the top 30 or 40, or a top LAC.</p>

<p>So, any suggestions? :)</p>

<p>Or, can anyone tell me about the party scenes (or lack thereof) at: Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, JHU, and Princeton?</p>

2

<p>Of the very top ranked LACs, consider:</p>

<p>Swarthmore
Pomona
Grinnell
Haverford
Wellesley
Smith
Bryn Mawr
Barnard</p>

<p>There are others, but those are all schools that have below average binge drinking rates.</p>

<p>Correlations with high drinking rates are rural, heavy fraternity presence, northeast, whiter, more male, and wealthier. Urban/suburban, more female, more diverse, and emphasis on academics and social service are factors that tend to correlate with lower drinking rates.</p>

<p>"Binge drinking rate" in the national surveys is defined as five drinks on one occasion (four for women) at least once in the two weeks prior to the survey. The national average is 44% of college students. Most of the schools I listed are somewhere in the 30% to 40% range, so these are hardly temperance societies. Some of the top schools, including very highly rated LACs and a couple of the Ivies hit 50% or more in some surveys.</p>

<p>A school with a third "partiers", a third occasional light drinkers, and a third non or seldom drinkers will feel very different than a campus where half the students are getting smashed once a week or more. It's the "or mores" who really make a campus unpleasant for the light drinkers.</p>

3

<p>Thanks for the info, interesteddad! Several of those LAC's are already on my list - Swarthmore in particular - and it's good to hear that they fit the bill on this issue.</p>

4

<p>Swarthmore has an almost ideal drinking scene, IMO. Alcohol is available at campus wide parties on campus every weekend, so those who want to drink can do so on campus in a pubic environment that eliminates the need for "pre-gaming" (chugging booze for half an hour to "last the night"). The drinking scene, by and large, approximates the way adults drink.</p>

<p>However, alcohol doesn't dominate the social scene on campus. There are roughly equal percentages of non or seldom drinkers, light occaisional drinkers, and frequent partiers. </p>

<p>The two small frats pull much of the hard partying out of the dorms and into the two frat lodges, which is the main reason the students haven't decided to get rid of the frats.</p>

<p>There are very few alcohol poisoning hospitalizations (zero to three per year in recent years) and typically just a handful of dumb incidents resulting in an arrest. Alcohol is a concern to all college administrators, but it just hasn't been a big issue at Swarthmore, knock on wood.</p>

5

<p>Thanks again, interesteddad! I'm liking Swarthmore better and better the more I hear about it - do you have a student there, or are you just very in-the-know? ;)</p>

6

<p>Daughter graduated from Swarthmore a month ago.</p>

<p>I think most of the colleges I listed would be similar in terms of alcohol, although the specific policies may differ at each school. Swarthmore has a combination of lax enforcement and moderate drinking rates, a combination that can only really result from a campus culture and not having the critical mass of hard core partiers necessary for spontaneous combustion.</p>

7

<p>Well, I can't thank you enough for all the info - I'm planning a college roadtrip sometime in August and I'll make sure to check Swarthmore out on my way. :)</p>

<p>Does anyone know anything about some of the schools I mentioned earlier?</p>

8

<p>Last surveys I saw had Grinnell and Haverford at about average.</p>

<p>Binge rates at the women's colleges are very much lower. (Last survey, which was about six years ago, at Smith had it in the low 20s.) Sadly, most schools refuse to publish their data (they all have it).</p>

<p>As a big a concern as binge drinking is, what may have an equal impact on the campus environment is the "heavy drinking" rate (defined as two or more drinks nearly every day, or binges 3-4 times in a two week period). What this tells you is the extent to which drinking isn't confined to the weekends. At Williams (where both ID and I are alums) it is 29%, just a little lower than the binge rate at Swarthmore. So you can immediately see how large the differences in campus environments can be among two schools that, academically, might on the surface seem so similar.</p>

<p>Binge rate is also relatively low at Macalester.</p>

9

<p>The problem the conclusions reached here is that they conflate and inflate data. There simply is no clearing house for data that compiles and compares the same information from college to college using consistent terms and samples. SAT scores or diversity figures for example are public information and are easily verifiable. </p>

<p>Drinking "scores" are random, use different criteria and are highly subjective.</p>

<p>I have never seen Williams generated statistics that specifically refer to ‘binge” drinking. This is an emotionally weighted term that skews interpretation to suit the agenda of the interpreter. </p>

<p>Several years ago Williams published a survey that classed 29% the respondents as “heavy drinkers” defined by the report as drinking 10 or more drinks per WEEK. </p>

<p>Another survey, which was actually a study on diversity, polled different ethnic groups and compared behavior in several areas, alcohol consumption being just one of many. Of the 1000 students who responded 27% of all African Americans, 53% of all Latinos, 39% of all Asian, and 58% of all Whites "Had five or more drinks on one or more occasions in [the] last two weeks." </p>

<p>No question but that 10 drinks is a lot of alcohol, but 10 beers spread out over a week is not necessarily abusive. No question but that "five drinks in a row" meaning 5 shots lined up on the bar and chugged one after another is unacceptable and dangerous behavior; however, the Williams College Diversity Initiatives Self Study did NOT imply that scenario. </p>

<p>One thing is irrefutable: We have LOTS of data. What we don’t have is consistent data from school to school or sensible criteria and definitions.</p>

<p>highopes, I believe (subjective conclusion) that women drink less at all women's colleges. I also believe (highly subjective conclusion) that some colleges favor drugs over alcohol as the abused substance of choice. I do not believe that you would find a substantial difference in the drinking levels -- weekend or midweek -- between Williams and any of the other colleges on your list (Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, JHU, and Princeton). </p>

<p>Since Williams doesn't even appear to be on your radar this may not be relevant to you, but I'd just like to set the record straight that drinking statistics are not as black and white as purported.</p>

<p>And more to the point, I don't think that the degree of drinking at the colleges that *are *on your list would negatively affect your experience there as a non-drinker.</p>

10

<p>You can find a lot of drinking on any campus, and you can find a sober group of friends on any campus. In general, if you're looking at "top" schools, even the drinkers for the most part should be able to balance other priorities with their partying. At schools that are less selective, you may find more students who came to college with no intention of succeeding academically, and their examples will tilt the reputation needle toward the party end of the spectrum. But even at those schools, you'll find non-drinkers. It's largely a matter of finding activities with peers who are on the end of the spectrum that you favor.</p>

11

<p>Thank you all for the lengthy advice! :)</p>

<p>I'm sure that most top colleges will attract students who are more academic-minded, but I had heard that certain schools, Dartmouth for example, had considerably bigger party/drinking scenes, which led to them being removed from my list.</p>

<p>I'm glad to here that the selection of colleges I'm considering most seriously is fairly free of drinking - it seems almost everyone at my high school spends his or her weekend getting drunk and doing nothing else, and I'd prefer to escape from that scene. ;)</p>

<p>Also, for what it's worth, I'm not too keen on the idea of an all-women's college, but I'm willing to look into most other liberal arts schools. I hadn't researched much about Williams, but now I'm curious, who knows, it may end up on my radar after all.</p>

<p>So thanks again to everyone who contributed their two cents to my college search!</p>

12

<p>A couple things I'd like to add real quick. First of all, you'll find that the more rural and traditional schools will have more drinking than ones that have access to cities. You'll also find that alcohol will be more obvious at these schools because people usually live on campus rather than go to off-campus parties.</p>

<p>Another thing, however, is that most people at schools the caliber of the ones you're considering know how to separate academic life from social life and will often confine partying to weekends. It by no means will completely dominate the entire week.</p>

<p>Finally, there will always be a large contingent of non-drinkers at every school, even the large state school here in Wisconsin that has the highest binge drinking rates in the country. You will absolutely find like-minded people who don't want to drink.</p>

<p>So I guess what I'm saying is don't cross a school off your list just because of this because in the long run I think it makes less of an impact on your life than you'd expect. The people you'll naturally befriend and hang out with will be the ones who don't tend to go wild.</p>

13

<p>
[quote]
So I guess what I'm saying is don't cross a school off your list just because of this

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</p>

<p>Why not cross a school off the list for disruptive drunken behavior? There's no reason at all that a student should have to put up with the puking in the dorms, the urinating in public, and the general disruptive influence of heavy drinking. Read the surveys about the impact on the non-binge drinkers. </p>

<p>Consumers have plenty choices where they aren't forced to live in dorm rooms next to Otis the town drunk.</p>

14

<p>The worst high school alcohol abuser I have ever encountered just graduated from Swarthmore. Heavy drinking is present at all campuses and can be avoided at all campuses. I agree that there are some differences in the prevailing culture (totally alcohol-based or not), but you might wind up on a dorm floor with heavy drinkers at Swat or Smith and you might find a niche of non-partiers right off the bat at Dartmouth.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
First of all, you'll find that the more rural and traditional schools will have more drinking than ones that have access to cities.

[/quote]

Not necessarily true. Consider, for example, Penn, Boston College. </p>

<p>
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I'm glad to here that the selection of colleges I'm considering most seriously is fairly free of drinking

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No, I wouldn't say that the schools you're considering (Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, JHU, and Princeton) are "fairly free of drinking." What I would say is that a light drinker or non-drinker would find plenty of companionship and her social options would not be negatively impacted by or restricted to drinking on campus.</p>

<p>Colleges and universities have distinctive personalities and what kids do during their down time is significant to the ambient character of each place. Definitely do research, definitely visit and definitely add or subtract names for any reason that you like -- but be aware that tradeoffs are part of the process and the conclusion will be (and should be) highly subjective.</p>

16

<p>"Correlations with high drinking rates are rural, heavy fraternity presence, northeast, whiter, more male, and wealthier. "</p>

<p>AKA CORNELL</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
Why not cross a school off the list for disruptive drunken behavior? There's no reason at all that a student should have to put up with the puking in the dorms, the urinating in public, and the general disruptive influence of heavy drinking. Read the surveys about the impact on the non-binge drinkers. </p>

<p>Consumers have plenty choices where they aren't forced to live in dorm rooms next to Otis the town drunk.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>My point, as another poster later mentioned, was that going to a school that supposedly has a little bit less drinking does not in any way ensure that you won't experience the type of behavior that you describe. There will be urinating, puking, and disruption at every top school. All I'm saying is that all of the schools have a huge contingent of students who don't drink and it is very easy to hang out and even room with those types of people instead. The difference in drinking levels between Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, JHU, and Princeton are not significant enough to make a decision off of.</p>

18

<p>Actually, the national surveys are very clear. Students encounter much less disruption -- from being disturbed at night by drunks, to being sexually assaulted by drunks, to being in a fight with drunks -- at schools with lower binge drinking rates. Colleges are NOT all the same on this score any more than they are all the same in terms of the importance of football.</p>

<p>Rationalize all you want. Puking, urinating in public, blacking out. These are not "normal" behaviors. They are are Otis the town drunk behaviors and some schools have a lot of these behaviors. Other schools have much less.</p>

19

<p>
[quote]
Another thing, however, is that most people at schools the caliber of the ones you're considering know how to separate academic life from social life and will often confine partying to weekends. It by no means will completely dominate the entire week.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Actually, the elite colleges tend to be among the worst on the binge drinking front. It's a rich mans sport to get wasted three or four nights a week.</p>

20

<p>
[quote]
Rationalize all you want. Puking, urinating in public, blacking out. These are not "normal" behaviors. They are are Otis the town drunk behaviors and some schools have a lot of these behaviors. Other schools have much less.
[quote]
</p>

<p>I never said all colleges were the same on this regard. I said that of the colleges that the OP is looking at, which are Brown, Cornell, Georgetown, Hopkins, and Princeton, there will not be a significant difference in binge drinking rate.</p>

<p>And I don't know where you get this Otis thing. Did you have a bad experience with a guy named Otis?</p>