<p>I go to a top 10 LAC (Carleton College) that is extremely well respected among grad schools. However, my GPA is pretty low at about 3.1. I am a philosophy major, and have taken pretty tough classes throughout college. A D in Russian my sophomore year is probably the biggest thing pulling my GPA down. Since Junior Year, I have really buckled down, and my GPA for the past 2 years is about 3.5. Will grad schools be at all forgiving do you think, considering these factors? Can I still get into a decent program? Right now, I don't even know if I want to go to grad school, or what I would go for (considering Law, Psychology, or Philosophy), but I'd like to know how much of a hinderance my GPA will be. Thanks.</p>
<p>A 3.1 GPA is marginal and probably prohibitive for doctoral admissions, at least directly.</p>
<p>However, some schools only calculate GPA based on the last two years of study, so you may want to look for those.</p>
<p>^^could he get into a solid MA program? I see how law would be an issue^^</p>
<p>A lot of schools give more weight to your later years as an undergrad, assuming you did better during your junior and senior years than you did as a freshman/sophomore, but it varies from school to school.</p>
<p>If you are not sure whether you want to go to grad school, then you need to think really hard about it. Do you NEED grad school in order to get a decent job in your field? If so, that answers the question for you. If not, consider that grad school is expensive (without financial aid), and you have to decide whether an MA or a PhD program is justifiable.</p>
<p>For law school your GPA will make things hard, since law school is extremely competitive.</p>
<p>In both psychology and philosophy your chances will be slim. Psychology is my field, and first of all the fact that you don’t have a psych major will be a hindrance. Clinical psych especially is very competitive and a 3.1 will not bode well. The fact that you have an upward trend will be nice, and may help some. From what I hear, philosophy is also very competitive and a 3.1 will not look good.</p>
<p>I agree, though, in that since you are so undecided about three very very different grad programs you probably don’t need to go to grad school just yet.</p>
<p>If your dead set on going to grad school, I’ve seen people do post-bacs at the school in question to prove that they can handle the classes. However if you get anything less than fantastic that would probably mean you should set your sights a bit lower. Also most top schools don’t have post-bac programs or fellowships and don’t let you take classes if you’re not enrolled. </p>
<p>Law school is quite a different monster that I have absolutely no business giving advice in. </p>
<p>Simple answer, yes. It is quite a big hurdle to get past. Fortunately grad school admissions are quite a bit more holistic than undergrad admissions. Get a few years of work experience, than try applying to reasonably targeted schools. Your SOP is also going to be key.</p>
<p>I have noticed a lot of negativity on this forum, and I wonder how realistic these responses are. To me, it doesn’t make much sense that the fact that I got C’s in Biology and English and a D in Russian, but A’s and B’s in both philosophy (my major) and psychology (taken all the classes to be a major except senior thesis) at a top 10 liberal arts college should hold me back from getting into a good grad program. At Carleton over 70% of grads with over a 3.0 who applied to med school got in somewhere, so I don’t know if what you guys are saying is completely correct. Carleton is an extremely challenging school, where it is not at all easy to get an A (virtually no one graduates with a 3.9+), and I’m not sure how aware of that the people responding are.</p>
<p>@Clevelandude:</p>
<p>One of my professors (Tenured) told us he got a 2.68 in his UG GPA because he was too busy going to bars and concerts and hanging out with women. He was being candid, so I’ll respect that and be general. He then went to a solid, but not great, Masters program where he shined “like a beacon of light” and was able to get into the best school for his Doctorate, as in the best school he could have hoped to attend. So you could certainly do that route.</p>
<p>But, Law school admissions are different, they don’t care very much about your Masters or anything, to my understanding.</p>
<p>I really don’t think the rank/difficulty of your school is going to matter that much. You don’t need to graduate with a 3.9+, you need to graduate with a 3.5+. </p>
<p>Maybe you should calculate you in major gpa and your gpa for your psych classes. If there is a large discrepancy between your overall gpa and those two, ie your in major gpa is 3.5+, then maybe that will be a point in your favor, on the other hand, it may raise a red flag. If your in major gpa is 3.5+, you might want to briefly talk about it in your sop. </p>
<p>I’m kinda in a similar boat. My overall gpa is a 3.42, but my in major gpa is a 3.7.</p>
<p>yeah but med school prereqs are cutthroat. dunno about your LAC, but at my LAC, a lot of kids taking premeds have GPAs <3.0</p>
<p>I’d say it’s generally assumed that a humanities GPA should be well in the 3.8+ range, so it’s a shame, but grad schools are more interested in you major GPA anyway, so maybe there you will find your salvation?</p>
<p>Umm, “it’s generally assumed” humanities GPAs are supposed to be in the 3.8 range? Yeah, nobody assumes that.</p>
<p>broken_symlink is much more on target. Anything around a 3.5 is solid, doctoral-wise.</p>
<p>I have a 3.08, but I wasn’t applying for Ph.D programs, only MS.</p>
<p>I haven’t come across any Grad Student in the so called ‘Top Schools’, (Grad Students on Ph.D track) with low GPA! In my opinion, the best source of answer would be from your seniors who are already in Grad schools, with similar academic achievements. Wish you all the best!</p>
<p>broken_symlink is much more on target. Anything around a 3.5 is solid, doctoral-wise.</p>
<p>–</p>
<p>point me to a student of any top 3 humanities PhD with a sub 3.8 major GPA kthnx</p>
<p>that said, i find those admission prediction thingies to give a pretty interesting statistical perspective. try entering different combinations of gpa and gre and see.</p>
<p>Yeah, there are many, many more high-quality doctoral-granting universities than your alleged “top 3,” whatever that is.</p>
<p>idk what humanity you are interested in, but in mine, the professorships, publications, grants etc. all come predominantly from the same three names plus a fairly recent UC addition. 3.5 is solid, but considering grade inflation, everybody has a solid 3.5. i was at an athletics lunch some time ago, and one of the stats voiced there was that the average gpa for all varsity athletes was a 3.3 - not too far off a 3.5, and thats for people mostly majoring in STEM who spend 1-2 hours a day training, plus weekends.</p>
<p>yeah, sure you can go ANYWHERE as long as theyre paying for you to come, but if you intend to use the degree, why would you waste your time?</p>
<p>Just got my final grades. 2 As and an A-. That puts my overall GPA at 3.147, my phil major at 3.3, my psych (almost) major at 3.5, and my senior year GPA at 3.76. As I said, I struggled early on, got a D in Russian, Cs in Bio and English, but generally did pretty well in my major, and (almost) second major. I really decided to dedicate myself to school winter term of my Junior year; it paid off, and I think it shows what I’m capable of. Do you think grad schools will recognize this, and see past the relatively low overall GPA?</p>
<p>It depends on the school, but I often see reference to the last two years of coursework being far more important. The trend looks better than the overall picture.</p>
<p>I am going to talk about Ph.D. programs. Nothing I write here should be read as definitive; norms for Ph.D. admission vary quite a bit from discipline to discipline (my background is in the humanities). However, in my experience, these observations are true more often than not.</p>
<p>First off, as hesdjjim and julliet have both previously remarked, you should have a very clear reason for wanting a Ph.D. A Ph.D. is a research degree–people who defend a dissertation and receive the degree are research experts in a particular area of specialization. Successful Ph.D. applicants are able to write a compelling statement of research interests where they discuss the types of questions and areas in a discipline that they find interesting, etc. Do you feel that your interests in Psychology or Philosophy would allow you to do this? </p>
<p>If you think that a Ph.D. might still be a reasonable option for you, you should consider some other issues. The students at the very best programs generally have exceptional overall GPAs. There are a few who do not, but unless you have stunning letters, an exceptionally mature statement of research interests, and excellent fit with a faculty member at a top program, I would not judge admission to a tip-top program in the humanities with a 3.1xx as very likely.</p>
<p>Like I said, nothing I write here can be taken as definitive. However, I think that those individuals who are interested in Ph.D. work in fields that are generally oversupplied** must be extremely sober–some might even say pessimistic–when considering the Ph.D. path and its opportunity costs. A student with a sub-3.5 overall GPA will probably need some combination of the trinity I mentioned above–stellar letters, a mature statement of research interests, and research interests that are an excellent fit with the department and/or faculty members–to gain successful entry to a Ph.D. program worth attending.</p>
<p>A bit of pleasant news: Ph.D. admissions will give type of institution and reputation for academic difficulty some consideration. I don’t know too many Ph.D. admissions committees that would see a 3.1 from Wake Forest (to take a school that is known as tough) as equivalent to a 3.1 from a less rigorous school. The problem is that this may not get you much–don’t underestimate the number of students who have strong letters, interesting research statements AND exceptional GPAs (both major and overall). </p>
<p>**Some examples of oversupplied fields are the general disciplines of History, English, and Philosophy. There are some specialties in those general disciplines that do not suffer from terrible problems of oversupply, but those specialties tend to be ones with demanding language requirements, etc. It’s not a good idea to force your interests to fit the specialties that are not terribly oversupplied right now–today’s less-crowded specialty may be oversupplied by the time you’re done with your degree.</p>
<p>“I have noticed a lot of negativity on this forum, and I wonder how realistic these responses are. To me, it doesn’t make much sense that the fact that I got C’s in Biology and English and a D in Russian, but A’s and B’s in both philosophy (my major) and psychology (taken all the classes to be a major except senior thesis) at a top 10 liberal arts college should hold me back from getting into a good grad program. At Carleton over 70% of grads with over a 3.0 who applied to med school got in somewhere, so I don’t know if what you guys are saying is completely correct. Carleton is an extremely challenging school, where it is not at all easy to get an A (virtually no one graduates with a 3.9+), and I’m not sure how aware of that the people responding are.”</p>
<p>For one thing, something apparently none of the other responders knew was that philosophy grad school is HARDER, MUCH HARDER than any professional school (medical, law, etc.). The top grad schools for philosophy accept 3% of their applicants (Harvard Law School accepts 11%). They are looking for reasons to dismiss you as an applicant – they aren’t looking for positives. If you have a major weak point, like a 3.1 (which I’m pretty sure is below the average GPA for Carleton), it would probably prevent you from admission to top programs – and B’s in Philosophy probably aren’t good enough, either. You should probably go talk to some of your philosophy professors and see what they say. And be forewarned: if you get into a low-caliber program (ranked 40 or below, I think), you very well may not be able to find any job in a philosophy department. Philosophy is extremely tough.</p>
<p>For more information from a philosophy professor, look here: [The</a> Splintered Mind: Applying to Graduate School in Philosophy](<a href=“http://schwitzsplintersunderblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/applying-to-phd-programs-in-philosophy.html]The”>The Splintered Mind: Underblog: Applying to Ph.D. Programs in Philosophy: Full Text)</p>
<p>Okay, thanks for the advice. I’m probably not going to go for philosophy, but psych, journalism/creative writing, and law are still options. The thing that I hope grad schools will be able to understand about my grades is that I didn’t really start trying in college until my Junior year, and my transcript shows that. Before that, I was hanging around with people who didn’t really care about school that much, and I myself was not really sure of myself academically. I decided to turn things around winter of my Junior year, and since then my grades have been pretty stellar. My senior year, I took 9 classes, and 8 of them were A or A-. Do you think any grad schools will be able to see past the relatively low overall GPA, and look at my last 2 years to see what I’m truly capable of?</p>