~2,000 academics collectively rate Berkeley’s undergraduate academic programs squarely among the schools you list (just below HYPSM, and above Chicago and Caltech to be exact). </p>
<p>Michigan is a top-tier university as well, but it historically doesn’t have the same academic prestige level as Berkeley across all academic disciplines. </p>
<p>And yes, PA score compensates for undergrad selectivity…IF Berkeley were as small and selective for its undergrads as the elite privates, its PA would be higher.</p>
<p>Minnesota’s economics program is it’s standout in liberal arts and I would highly recommend it to anyone who wants a top econ program for 14K OOS tuition… and it’s the top ranked dept in the Big Ten for econ… I’m just saying.</p>
<p>I want to remind you that the OP is asking about undergrad economics programs. In addition, I also want to remind you that the ONLY degree that undergrad Wharton confers is an economics degree. I don’t think ANYONE disputes that Wharton is stronger than Northwestern in terms of its economics degree.</p>
<p>^how broad? to the point that “business” and “economics” are interchangable? IMO, wharton just uses a wrong title, perhaps because Penn tries to fit in the rest of the Ivy that have always shunned the business major.</p>
<p>IBclass06,
I wasn’t questioning Minnesota being one of the top schools for economics. I was questioning kwu’s statement that Berkeley and Michigan cannot be prestigious because they are state schools. That’s just wrong. </p>
<p>
Kwu,
I’m a Cambridge product so I know Cambridge more than you do. I spent 3 years at Girton College and I loved it there. But I wouldn’t say it’s superior to Berkeley, or our undergrad student body is superior to Berkeley’s. 99% of Berkeley students were from their top 10% in high school and that’s hard to beat for any school. I would say that the undergrad student bodies of both schools are superb. I cannot say one is better than the other. It’s hard to make a conclusive statement about this since we don’t have basis to determine the IQ level of the students of both schools. Cambridge draws students from England which has a population of 60M (more of less) whilst Berkeley draws students from California which has a population close to 50M, that’s aside of course from some applicants from around the world but which count a lot fewer. </p>
<p>I reacted to your statement because you said this: Yes, all three are state schools, and therefore none of their undergraduate colleges are prestigious.</p>
<p>Now, if you read that statement again, you’re clearly saying that State Schools cannot be prestigious. Is my interpretation of your statement correct? If not, please correct me. If yes, then you’re wrong.</p>
<p>^ Thanks for the correction, UCBChemEGrad. The idea is, top students at California apply to Berkeley as Berkeley accepts only the top students of California. The same goes for Cambridge where most top students in the UK apply to Cambridge. However, there is no clear record that those students at Cambridge are more talented than those at Berkeley. I, for one, wasn’t accepted at Berkeley when I applied there a decade ago, but was accepted at some fine US private schools including 3 ivy league schools (Columbia, Cornell and UPenn). So, for Berkeley’s standard, I’m not good enough. But I was good enough for some pretty fine private schools which kwu has deemed more prestigious institutions.</p>
<p>Wharton has been giving out economics degree since 1881. You can speculate all you want about “business” and “economics” but the term economics were more widely used at the time for all things related to commerce. Thus, there was no “business” degree then.</p>
<p>^Time has not changed? Are we still in 1881? Should we call accountants and CPAs economists also? After all, I bet many of them have taken at least 2 econ classes. How about calling all the MBAs (and BBAs for that matter) economists? You can argue all you want; nobody in the right mind would expect an “economics” major has only 2 intro economics classes. Even a minor/certificate would require more than that. The OP was clearly asking for REAL economics program–the kind of program for which students take intermediate macro, econometrics, and upper-level economics classes or the one that’s in Penn’s CAS. Thanks for inserting your beloved Wharton and its irrelevant program in the middle of this discussion.</p>
<p>Wharton has 2 required econ courses, and most students take upper economics courses from CAS to fulfill upper level requirements.
How do you know what the OP is not interested in finding out about Wharton’s economics degree?
You are here merely to be argumentative and not adding any value to this thread.</p>
Upper level requirements can be anything from real estate, marketing, to accounting, depending on the specific concentrations student pick, just like many undergraduate business programs out there. “Economics” is <em>not</em> among one of the concentrations listed (which adds more irony to it). I doubt your claim has any basis.</p>
<p>
Speaking of argumentative, you were the one who disputed kwu’s assessment and USN ranking when obviously the ranking pertains to economics in Penn’s CAS. You were the one who tried to put Wharton’s “economics” in the same sentence as HYPSM/Chicago/Berkeley/Northwestern ECONOMICS when it’s a completely different animal:
</p>
<p>If you want to offer an alternative to the OP, fine. But don’t try to go so overboard in pushing for your school and say it’s “economics” is better.</p>
<p>Gourman Report undergrad
MIT
Chicago
Stanford
Princeton
Harvard
Yale
U Minnesota
U Penn
U Wisc Madison
UC Berkeley
Northwestern
U Rochester
Columbia
UCLA
U Michigan Ann Arbor
Johns Hopkins
Carnegie Mellon
Brown
UC San Diego
Duke
Cornell
NYU
UVA
UC Davis
U Washington
U Maryland College Park
Michigan State
UNC Chapel Hill
U Illinois Urbana Champaign
Texas A&M
Boston U
Washington U St Louis
Purdue West Lafayette
USC
U Texas Austin
Vanderbilt
Ohio State
Iowa State
SUNY Stony Brook
U Iowa
U Mass Amherst
UC Santa Barbara
U Pittsburgh
Virginia Tech
Claremont McKenna
Rutgers New Brunswick </p>
<p>Rugg’s Recommendations economics</p>
<p>American U. (DC) …….
Amherst (MA) ……
Babson (MA) ……
Barnard (NY) ……
Bates (ME) ………
Boston University (MA) ….
Bowdoin (ME) …….
Brandeis (MA) ……_
Bryn Mawr ¶ ……,
Bucknell ¶ ………
California, U. of (Los Angeles) ….,
California, U. of (San Diego) ….,
Chicago, U. of (ll) …….
Claremont McKenna (CA)….
Colby (ME) ………
Columbia (NY) …
Connecticut College……
Cornell (NY) ……….
Dallas, U. of (TX) …….,
Dartmouth (NH) …
DePauw (IN) …,….,
Duke (NC) ………
Georgetown (DC) ….
Georgia Inst. Of Tech. ….
Grinnell (IA) ……….
Hamilton (NY) …
Harvard (MA) ….
Haverford ¶ ……
Holy Cross (MA) …….
Kalamazoo (MI) …,
Kenyon (OH) …….
Lafayette ¶ …….
Macalester (MN) ……,
Michigan, U. of ‘”
MIT (MA) ……….
Middlebury (Vf) ……
Mount Holyoke (MA) ….
Northwestern (IL) …
Occidental (CA) ……,
Pennsylvania, U. of ……
Pomona (CA) ……….
Princeton (NJ) ……,
Rhodes (TN) ………_
Rochester, U. of (NY) .
Rose-Hulman (IN) ……,…,
Smith (Mass)…… </p>
<p>St. Mary’s Coll of Maryland……
St. Olaf (MN) ……,……
South, U. of the (TN) ….,
Southwestern (TX) …
Stanford (CA) ……
Swarthmore ¶ .
Trinity (CT) ……
Trinity (TX) ….
Vanderbilt (TN)…
Villanova ¶ …
Virginia, U. of …._
Wabash (IN) ……
Wake Forest (NC) ……
Washington & Lee (VA) ….
Wellesley (MA) …….
Wesleyan (CT) ….,.
Whitman (WA) …
Willamette (OR) ………
Williams (MA) ……
Yale (CT) ……….</p>
It means none of the Wharton’s specializations/concentrations requires any upper econ courses from CAS. Your claim that “most students take upper economics courses from CAS to fulfill upper level requirements” has no basis. I doubt they have the pre-reqs to do that even if they want to anyway. It seems like you were not truthful here. </p>
<p>Let me try it one more time using Wharton’s website again:
Did you see the word “economics”? On the other hand,
</p>
<p>Wharton’s “economics” program is very much like most other undergrad business programs. According to your view, they could all be called “economics programs”. USN, Ruggs, Gourman should all include those business schools then.</p>
<p>But what you were doing is like saying Stanford’s biology is stronger than UCSD’s BME and comparing apples to oranges.</p>
<p>Northwestern has a top-5 (graduate ranking) industrial engineering and management sciences program; one can argue it’s more “business-like” than many economics programs out there. But I don’t go around business threads and start saying it’s better than, say, McCombs.</p>