<p>I have to respectfully disagree with you barrons. Every citizen of the US should have a minimum education available to them. A high school diploma is that minimum. NYS requires 4 years of English, with a Regents exam given in 11th grade. 12th grade can be any number of classes that aren’t necessarily AP or honors level. In today’s day and age, there is a minimum level of science proficiency a citizen should have. It’s not a waste of money at all and it certainly isn’t belittling anyone’s aspirations. Regents exams are proficiency exams. Top level students score very high on them. You only need a 65 to pass though. Nope, not a waste of money at all. BOCES does offer additional vocational type classes too.</p>
<p>The CCs in our area will auto-admit any student with a Regents diploma regardless of GPA. I have heard that some CCs in the state are considering raising admissions requirements, while others are planning to begin offering Bachelor’s degrees.</p>
<p>Back in the day most high schools in NYS had vocational ed facilities right in the high school. Today, as mathmom noted, most vocational courses are taught at the regional BOCES facility. At our school limits are placed on vocational studies participation until basic Regents diploma requirements are met. As I look around the community I see the average age of our plumbers, electricians, carpenters and auto technicians is now in their late 40s or 50s. Not being exceptionally handy I am personally concerned about whether or not a new generation will be there when we need them.</p>
<p>“As I look around the community I see the average age of our plumbers, electricians, carpenters and auto technicians is now in their late 40s or 50s”</p>
<p>How many of them got their training in a HS voc program? I guess most of them got theirs in an apprenticeship of one kind or another.</p>
<p>My district in NY starts tracking in 5th grade for Math. If you don’t get selected for advanced math then you can pretty well forget it. Then in middle they have an advanced/advanced math track where the kids are two grade levels above. </p>
<p>For all other subjects the kid has to be recommended for honors level classes in 9th - though a parent can insist they be put in honors. </p>
<p>My son was a very happy go lucky kid who was a not a highly motivated student in elementary or middle, didn’t always turn in his homework, etc., etc., etc., and so naturally get recommended for any honors classes. </p>
<p>We decided to put him in a private school after the first 5 weeks of his freshman year after seeing his progress report filled with so-so grades. </p>
<p>He’s been in all honors classes since his Soph. yr. and this year is taking Physics at the CC. </p>
<p>I’ve no doubt he would have been stuck in all Regents in our public school. Imo, the HS does everything for the best and brightest and those who are in the Excel program (classes for kids who need a lot of help) but the vast middle they just push along and my district is considered one of the best in NY. </p>
<p>Hubby and I wish we had put our son in private school at the beginning of middle school.</p>
<p>Actually BBD, I think quite a few got their initial training through vocational education. Certainly followed by some sort of apprenticeship. I am at the wrong end of the 50s so most of these people are my age or younger. My contemporaries at the Upstate NY high school I graduated from who wanted to be auto mechanics, electricians, etc. generally were tracked into the school’s vocational ed program. I see a number of familiar names in the yellow pages in the old “hometown” who have gone on to start their own plumbing or HVAC businesses. Others, including one of my brothers-in-law, is still working as an auto technician; he received his earliest training in his high school’s vocational ed program.</p>
<p>I have a question. Were all these different tracks and their requirements or the consequences for not getting tracked early enough common knowledge or was it more like you had to know what was available and what questions to ask and who to ask them of? Would the student of an “un-networked” parent even stand a chance?</p>
<p>MY HS still offers several vocational tracks as I mentioned. You can take either college prep level or vocational level math and science classes along with the vocational ed classes. Some are on campus and others are at the countywide polytech campus which is new (to me). </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nhvweb.net/Curriculum%20Guide/Curr_Guide10-11.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nhvweb.net/Curriculum%20Guide/Curr_Guide10-11.pdf</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.hcpolytech.org/hcpoly/Guidance%20Department/2010-2011%20course%20guide%20and%20application_.pdf[/url]”>http://www.hcpolytech.org/hcpoly/Guidance%20Department/2010-2011%20course%20guide%20and%20application_.pdf</a></p>
<p>Thanks for asking this question! And, thanks for all of the posters who have joined this interesting discussion so far.
“Tracking” has become a dirty word to educators, so I never use it. Rather, I say “Grouping the students according to the skills that they need to master.” Educators will listen to this.
Let me put in a word in favor of such “grouping”.
For those of us who believe that strong central urban cores are essential to healthy regions, and who do not want to see total flight of people who think education is important to the suburbs, such “grouping” is absolutely essential to the fiscal health of cities. If we do not have this “grouping”, even more people who value education will move to the suburbs because the needs of their kids will not be met and we will be left with cities that are devoid of the people that are needed to contribute to civic life. This harms entire regions, including the suburbs.
Many educators who come up with strategies such as “differentiated instruction”, which is exceedingly difficult to do and therefore is not done well at all, where kids of all achievement levels are thrown together and teachers are supposed to meet the needs of all of them at the same time, are just being unrealistic about the huge range of achievement that exists in our schools. It is almost impossible to teach to this huge range. I know that this range narrows considerably in communities that are socioeconomically homogenous. People who live in such homogenous communities sometimes have no idea of the range of achievement that exists elsewhere. They may not have the need for the “grouping” as much as those of us who live in diverse, urban districts. Those of us who live in such districts want the districts to remain diverse, but they will not if those who value education all leave!
Do we need to do a better job of identifying kids who can be pushed, especially among low income kids? Absolutely! But please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater and destroy our cities by accelerating the flight of taxpayers who care about education!
To answer the OP’s question, we have in our high school three levels: “Gifted” (anyone, including parents, can request the evaluation) , “scholars” (which requires decent performance and behavior, these students CAN take AP classes), and “mainstream”. Of course, there are also classes for special education kids who cannot function in other classes (autistic support, emotional support, learning support, life skills, etc.) although the special education students are supposed to be in the “least restrictive environment” whenever possible.
For kids with un-networked parents, the teachers really have the responsibility for identifying the ones that can be pushed. And, teachers are not always aware of some of the signs that kids should be enriched or accelerated. Some gifted kids, for example, will have behavioral problems because they are not stimulated enough. Giftedness can actually mimic ADHD sometimes. Some gifted kids are extremely disorganized. When one part of the brain is stronger, another is usually weaker! Teachers need to learn to recognize these signs so that every kid’s needs are met.
Career and Technical Education: our district is working on it. Of course, these programs are expensive! Some of our surrounding communities have CTE centers where kids from different districts go for part of the day to learn auto mechanics, cosmetology, construction, etc. Some of them qualified for special funding because of mill closings and so forth. Our urban district has some CTE and is revamping it.</p>