<p>Wesleyan would be a reach, but they like quirky and creative. I’d try to interview on campus.</p>
<p>Trinity is somewhat less selective. It’s hard to characterize the Trinity personality: smart, activist, a lot of community involvement.</p>
<p>I also thought about UT Austin. Huge school, but UT’s College of Fine Arts is well respected. Austin is a very hip place these days. </p>
<p>As is Portland. Has he already looked at Reed?</p>
<p>Actually Skidmore does have a foreign language requirement:</p>
<p>[Skidmore</a> College: Foreign Language Requirement and Placement](<a href=“http://cms.skidmore.edu/fll/requirements.cfm]Skidmore”>http://cms.skidmore.edu/fll/requirements.cfm)</p>
<p>It does, however, seem pretty light; only one semester, and no need to develop at least intermediate-level proficiency.</p>
<p>I would suggest Haverford, but his disdain for most of humanity is going to preclude him going there. Kind of goes against the school’s spirit, plus it’s really hard to transfer in.</p>
<p>Given his proclivities, I think Reed may be the ideal school, despite its distribution requirements. (He can get by the math/foreign language requirement by also taking logic or linguistics) No school is going to be a 100% match, and sometimes you have to give up something to get what you really want, but he would probably be really happy at Reed and put up with what he doesn’t like in exchange. Go for the 95% solution.</p>
<p>Puget Sound, 35 miles from Seattle in Tacoma, also might work.</p>
<p>I’m not sure where Mr.Mom62 got the idea that he has “disdain for most of humanity”. He does not want a rural setting, and he wants a more challenging academic environment.
He’s actually rather affable and easy going. He’s well liked at his average state university by an extremely diverse group of students and he goes to games occasionally.
He was asked to rush every fraternity on campus, but he declined nicely, and managed to still be friends with these guys.</p>
<p>He’s at a college that could be described as “All American Average”, and he is getting along well. </p>
<p>The art department is excellent and accredited by the NSAD. </p>
<p>He is not a “Goth” or a depressive person. He’s friendly, highly verbal, out going and social. He is also political, and no one on his campus shares that interest.</p>
<p>The good art department is really the only redeeming factor about the school.
The liberal arts classes are not challenging.</p>
<p>What is challenging for me if finding a college that still has a good art department, and is more rigorous academically and does not have stringent math or foreign language language requirements. </p>
<p>I think Haverford is very preppy and jockish. I’m not sure why that would be a good fit at all. I am going to look at Reed, though.</p>
<p>If I remove what I’ll call the “Bumble Factor” and open this up to vibrant residential campuses that are not “suit case schools” that have many events on campus - particularly, music, artistic, political, environmental - speakers, bands, comedy - would that be easier?</p>
<p>Are finances an issue? If they are, being a transfer is going ot put him at a disadvantage in terms of aid. If money is not an issue, there are a number of options out there. Take a look at the schools around the major cities, like NYC, Boston, Philly and see what’s there. My neighbor went to a small Catholic school before she decided she wanted to go into the graphic arts and transferred to NYU at that time as her school did not have much of a program in what she wanted. She was an ideal transfer prospect in that NYU does take a goodly number of transfer students, and she had done well at her first college and had outgrown the curriculum there and wanted more. Colleges love that kind of a transfer student. NYU is not a small school, however. Maybe parts of the New School, Sarah Lawrence or any of the arts schools–not an area I know much about so suggesting any of those would not be wise on my part.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t characterize Haverford as preppy or jock-y. In fact, just the opposite. More toward the crunchy, caring, save-the-planet end of the continuum.</p>
<p>I might have Haverford confused with another college beginning with an “H”. I was thinking of the brother school to Bryn Mawr. A relative attends there and she is very “preppy”.</p>
<p>So far, I haven’t found three schools that fill this requirement of a good Art department, a progressive, political student body and academic freedom. </p>
<p>I’m thinking of looking into RISD, and some of the state universities that have been mentioned.</p>
<p>I’m honestly annoyed at the plethora of pesky academic requirements at many schools. I think higher education has taken a leap backward since the 1970s.</p>
<p>Haverford is the one that’s in the same consortium with Bryn Mawr, as are Swarthmore and Penn. Each school has its own personality. I wouldn’t describe Haverford as Preppy, nor Hippie or Hipster, but it is definitely progressive and left leaning politically. </p>
<p>Maybe if you could give an example of a specific requirement that your son objects to it would be easier to understand his position. From my point of view, the requirements are for the most part flexible and multi-optioned. I think your son has to look at each college’s requirements individually and in detail. </p>
<p>Remember that even at open curriculum schools, each major has requirements that need to be fulfilled for graduation, and in addition there may also be general course requirements set by the university.</p>
<p>It’s all starting to become clear now…</p>
<p>What on Earth are you talking about? That’s a strange, not helpful and odd statement.</p>
<p>Upthread, you stated that my son has a “disdain for all humanity”. What does that mean and where did I indicate such a thing?</p>
<p>I am no fan of distributional requirements, or any requirements outside of the student’s major or cognate courses that relate to the major.
I agree with my son.</p>
<p>If there was one requirement that he would want to rid himself of, it would be foreign language. </p>
<p>One math would be doable. That’s what he has at his current college and he certainly does not want to add more. A science instead of a math would be preferential.</p>
<p>He also wants to stay with a college that is accredited by the NASAD and offers the BFA instead of the BA. </p>
<p>Liberal Arts colleges have been surprisingly difficult to find. </p>
<p>Looking at - Ann Arbor, Madison, RIT, School of the Art Institute of Chicago, RISD, and Skidmore, although they have a language requirement, he wants to find out what it entails. It isn’t the usual two semester 6-8 foreign language requirement. </p>
<p>He has spoken to Stamps College of Art and Design at Ann Arbor and they seem interested. He has an appointment for an interview and to show them his portfolio.
High School averages are not needed for junior transfers. </p>
<p>Other state schools with larger Art departments in our state that he is interested in investigating are Miami University (concerned that it’s conservative) and Ohio University.
(Not OSU)</p>
<p>A lateral transfer that would provide more options to work with different media would be Kent State. I don’t think that KSU is better than his current college, but it has an expanded offering in the art department and it’s less of a suit case school. </p>
<p>What do you think his chances are with a 3.5 average at these colleges?
Admission is guaranteed at any state affiliated colleges in Ohio, with his average and class standing.</p>
<p>I’ll keep it somewhat short, but you are amusing.</p>
<p>Do you even bother to read what you write? I’m sorry, but your son (and I can see you agree with him) cannot refer to rural schools as “Bumblef<strong>k” and be expressing anything other than disdain for a vast swath of this country and the world. One can express a preference for cities, or a desire not to go rural, but when you invoke the “Bumblef</strong>k” term, you’re hostile. </p>
<p>In addition, we have the “can’t be too conservative” requirement, but we’re not talking BYU or Liberty U conservative, we seem to be defining “conservative” as anything to the right of Noam Chomsky. But then it can’t be “too hippie” either, or have people who enjoy meditation, Eastern religions, or nature. And he regards his fellow students papers as “pathetic”, yet he’s an underachiever who wishes to be challenged by “an exchange of idea”. Apparently he wishes to be challenged by an echo chamber, because he’s doing everything he can to avoid ideas and people that are different from him.</p>
<p>Why does your son even want to go to college? He doesn’t need to because apparently he already knows everything. He seems to have the intellectual curiosity of a turnip, what with all of his (and your) demands about not want to have to study foreign language or math or maybe just a little science. No wonder it’s difficult for you to find a liberal arts college, they teach a liberal arts curriculum there! Look up the definition, it’s the last thing you want, because liberal arts is all about learning about everything, not just some narrow area of concentration that you currently enjoy. It’s about opening your mind to new ideas, engaging in debate, exploring subjects you’ve never thought about, pushing your boundaries, challenging your own ideas, meeting people different from yourself, seeing how the other half lives, being surprised by a new discovery, understanding that different doesn’t mean bad, living and letting live. </p>
<p>In short, it’s everything you’re trying to avoid.</p>
<p>Maybe your son needs a new school, and I wish him well in that endeavor, but what he really needs is a new attitude.</p>
<p>It is you who is “funny”. I did not want to go to college in a rural area either. Actually, that appears to be the trend these days. Rural colleges are, in general; suffering. (Fisk, 2012)</p>
<p>There are a full spectrum of liberal colleges and and left leaning brands of thought, Mr. Mom. </p>
<p>Brown, Harvard and Vassar teach a liberal arts curriculum. They have no distributional requirements. Are these “vocational schools” in your eyes?</p>
<p>From the beginning of the thread, I asked for this not to be a referendum on distributional requirements, which I find useless. Taking a “101” of a natural science at a flagship SUNY did nothing for me, but impede my study of subjects for which I had passion. Complete waste of time.</p>
<p>You are intentionally taking this thread off topic. </p>
<p>I am not engaging in the distributional requirement debate.</p>
<p>Does anyone have any other suggestions for my son?</p>
<p>He’s thinking about University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, Carnegie Mellon, Skidmore, R.I.T., Miami University (but concerned about the political climate) Wisconsin ay Madison, Hampshire, Ohio University, Bowling Green State, University of Rochester, Sarah Lawrence, RISD and The School of the Art Institute of Chicago. </p>
<p>Originally, he was seeking an LAC, but the prevalence of Foreign Language requirements has proven to be difficult and restrictive. </p>
<p>I’ve not been shy about his High School performance. A flat “B” with an upward trend.
Excellent recommendations from his current college. Dean’s list for all three semesters with an upward trend.</p>
<p>Any guidance would be appreciated.</p>
<p>I’m not engaging in a debate, I’m simply pointing out that you are asking for one thing but demanding another. You have a very narrow set of criteria and you and your son’s unwillingness to bend to any demands by the colleges or alter the conditions of his education and then complaining bitterly about it is not exactly going to get you anywhere, nor is anyone going to help you. I and others have come up with plenty of suggestions, almost all of which you have shot down, many for pretty petty reasons. It’s like you want the whole world to change for you, because you think the whole world is stupid. Whaaa! Whaaa! Whaaa!</p>
<p>You are also wrong about distributional requirements at Harvard. From the Harvard website:</p>
<p>One course from each of the following 8 areas is required: Aesthetic and Interpretive Understanding, Culture and Belief, Empirical and Mathematical Reasoning, Ethical Reasoning, Science of Living Systems, Science of the Physical Universe, Societies of the World, The United States in the World.</p>
<p>And you are also wrong about Vassar. From the Vassar website:</p>
<p>All Vassar students are expected to reflect both depth and breadth in their course selection. Depth is demonstrated by completing a major field of concentration; breadth is demonstrated by taking courses across the four curricular divisions—arts, foreign languages and literatures, social sciences, and natural sciences—and in multidisciplinary programs. In order to graduate, you will be required to elect at least 50% of your work outside of your major, and 25% of your work outside the division in which you major</p>
<p>Brown appears to have no requirements whatsoever.</p>
<p>BTW, I have nothing against vocational schools. I think more people should attend them. It’s honest work. You, apparently, view it as a pejorative term. Yet more disdain. Why am I not surprised?</p>
<p>It’s obvious you created the monster. Now you get to live with him.</p>
<p>I think his list is comprehensive and good. I would add Wesleyan. It’s a reach but seems to have everything he wants. Wesleyan and the other LACs on his list offer the BA, not the BFA. If the BFA is a hard requirement for him, then I think LACs are the wrong route, moreso because of the degree than the language requirement.</p>
<p>Has he had any foreign language at all? Generally colleges with proficiency requirements will allow students to test out of all or part of the requirement. </p>
<p>Have you checked the distribution requirements of the larger universities? It’s actually at large universities where you get requirements like Science 101. LACs tend to offer softer but interesting sciences geared toward humanities majors, like “Physics of Every Day Life” and “Global Warming and Natural Disasters”. They are deliberately structured so that science/math avoiders are not overwhelmed by calculus or chemistry.</p>
<p>Also, in two years will he have taken some math or science that could transfer toward the requirements at his new school?</p>
<p>I agree that Wesleyan is about perfect for him. I’d put it in the “dream category”.
With the information that I provided, do you think that he has a chance? Do you know anyone with his grades and stats who has transferred to Wesleyan successfully?
Even if he had a 50% chance, I’d encourage it. </p>
<p>The large universities if anything, seem more flexible, especially those with fine art schools within the university. The one that he currently attends requires one math course and no science. He actually likes science, environmental science, geology, and natural as opposed to physical science.</p>
<p>He has two years of Spanish and one of Classical Latin. He can speak passable conversational Russian, which he learned through travel in the Russian speaking part of Ukraine. He picks up foreign languages rather quickly in a non class room setting. </p>
<p>He couldn’t pass a proficiency test in Spanish. Or in Russian. The “left brained” part of the way languages are taught, is just not the way that he learns. </p>
<p>He is in no way married to the idea of a BFA. He would like a strong Studio Art program and he would <em>like</em> the school to be accredited by the NSAD, for grad school purposes.</p>
<p>What do you think his chances are at Carnegie Mellon, or University of Chicago?
As opposed to his other new reach, Wesleyan? </p>
<p>I really want to thank you, Momrath; for your good advice and non-judgmental responses!</p>
<p>I don’t have any insider information about Wesleyan admissions except a general understanding that they are willing to take chances on borderline students who exhibit intellectual curiosity with exceptional talents or desirable demographics. </p>
<p>His portfolio will be reviewed by the art faculty and his resume, essays and recommendations will be important factors. Does your son, by any chance, fall in the non-White category? Has he had any other life experiences that might set him apart?</p>
<p>My guess is that Carnegie Melon would be very tough to transfer into without top credentials in both portfolio and grade point as they are very numbers driven. </p>
<p>Do you mean the University of Chicago or the School of the Art Institute of Chicago? Or both? I would think that admission to SAIC would be highly portfolio based; UofC highly GPA based.</p>
<p>I think your son will have to talk to admissions about requirements, both language and other. As a transfer with two years under his belt he may be able to waive certain requirements and apply some of the courses that he’s already taken. Offering his verbal fluency in Russian as a trade-off would be worth a try. </p>
<p>[My son is exactly the same in language. He is verbally fluent in an Asian language but it isn’t taught at many colleges. Two years of college level Spanish would have killed him. One semester of calculus nearly did, but he survived. 
]</p>
<p>My son’s college required three science OR math courses which were easily fulfilled by the kind of Everyman’s science courses that you describe. One of these courses, however, had to be in quantitative (non-verbal) reasoning – like math, physics, computer science, statistics. This was a little more difficult for humanities types, but the college understands this and offers many acceptable choices. My point is that you have to read the fine print at each school.</p>
<p>One other point, I wasn’t familiar with NASAD accreditation so I spent some time on their website. Unless I’m misunderstanding the information, I wouldn’t give much weight to NASAD accreditation. All of the top ranked art & design schools will be accredited and many top liberal arts colleges and universities are not. For example Carnegie Melon, Cornell, Yale, Wesleyan, Williams are not accredited institutional members.</p>
<p>No, he is white. Not a first generation college attendee, or any of those mitigating factors. </p>
<p>I meant University of Chicago. He is also interested in the School of the Art Institute of Chicago. </p>
<p>He’s what Antioch College calls on their web site “well lopsided” as opposed to “well rounded”. (although Antioch has my respect, and as an advocate of that type of college, I’m not willing to send him to an unaccredited college). </p>
<p>I’d never heard that Wesleyan was willing to take those risks. But I do appreciate the information. </p>
<p>My son is similar to yours when it comes to things quantitative. However, I do not think that he would make it through Calculus. </p>
<p>Finding a good fit, where he is happy, and challenged in the many subjects that he enjoys, at a college with people on his level intellectually, is my only goal.</p>