Transcript

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
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<p>Okay, that’s good to hear you’ve got the ECs down; at least that’s not a concern. I really do wish you’d consider taking a break from school and working another job for awhile, though, to save up for more undergrad, and med school later on. I know you’re feeling pressure stemming from the success of others from the same background as you; I wish there weren’t that element of shame that is likely keeping the ones who failed to get in from publicizing that fact. I really do believe that far from every Indian pre-med has gotten into med school (it’s statistically impossible), and I wish you’d see that too, for your own well-being. I don’t want it to give you the impression that giving up is okay (it obviously won’t, based on your posts in your two threads), but I want you to see that others DO fail, as you have thus far, so that you know you’re not alone and stop beating yourself up over it.</p>

<p>Please do consider taking a break from school. The academic world is very different from the real world, and I think you’re perceiving the failures you’ve experienced in school as far more significant than they actually are in the grand scheme of things. I think that being in an environment where success and failure aren’t based on a few percentage points will help fix your view of the world, so that you’re in a better mental state when you return to your studies. Plus, if it’s been enough years since you received your bad grades, you may be able to receive grade forgiveness. You know that your mistakes will set you back awhile anyways, so I think you should work on making your mind healthy as you wait it out. It concerns us on here when you come in full of vitriol at yourself and the world, as if you are anything like this in the real world, you will have no chance at med school. I hope that by leaving school for a year or two, you’ll have enough time to recover; determine how you can best go about achieving your goals in a calm, uncluttered state of mind; and save yourself some money as, though you have taken great steps forward by stopping smoking, I don’t think you are quite ready to completely turn yourself around, and attending classes in the fall would likely only be a time- and money-sink if you fail to receive the tip-top grades you’ll need from here on out, and it would not help your state of mind.</p>

<p>Take a break and regroup. Working for awhile will earn you money, a mental reprieve, and will doubtless only serve to solidify your conviction of becoming a doctor. I don’t mean to dismiss your dream; I understand how terribly frustrated you must be and why you are angry when you post on here - I wish you wouldn’t be, so that people wouldn’t respond in kind, but I do understand. But I think that right now the best thing for you is to take a break from school altogether. It’s what I thought when you posted in your first thread, and I’m even more sure of it now. I believe you have the capacity to achieve your goals, once you’re back in a healthy frame of mind.</p>

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<p>Thank you Tito for your kind words and your sincere post. Thank you even moreso for telling me not to give up, which seems to be a popular theme amongst most of the people in this forum.</p>

<p>It is very hard, especially since Im surrounded by extremely successful people and come from a family and culture that expects the exactly the same at a young age. I know you say that it is a statistical impossibility and I know that you say there are other who have failed as well. However, in all my years of being Indian and living in the Indian community I have yet to meet one who is not a near perfect child. I can only believe what I see.</p>

<p>I know that taking time off is advantageous and the utmost important thing is get myself straight mentally. I am doing my best to change my attitude and perspective of my past. Since my parents are paying for my education, they won’t let me take time off. They are already dissapointed that I am graduating later than most of the “other Indians” we know. I think time is also factor, I am delaying my entrance to med school by 2-3 years at least already, I don’t want to extend that. </p>

<p>My game plan for this semester:</p>

<p>1) DO NOT GO NEAR WEED OR ANYONE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.</p>

<p>2) NO PARTYING TILL MY GPA IS AT OR ABOVE A 3.8.</p>

<p>3) GO TO EVERY SINGLE CLASS LIKE ITS THE END OF THE WORLD.</p>

<p>4) PROFESSORS PROFESSORS PROFESSORS. Meet with them and learn from their wisdom often.</p>

<p>My game plan for life:</p>

<p>1) I have about 1.5 years with about 40 credits left. I will try to get as high of a trend as I can and graduate.</p>

<p>2) Continue taking and retaking classes till my GPA is above a 3.0.</p>

<p>3) Kill the MCAT.</p>

<p>4) Get a temporary career to support myself while I do this.</p>

<p>5) EC’s - volunteer, shadowing, do medically related things that actually interest me - only AFTER I am academically successful.</p>

<p>6) Apply to DO schools, and also some MD schools. If I hypothetically did all of the above succesfully, would an SMP be required for MD? Is it an absolute MUST for me if I want to have a shot at ANY US MD school if I were in that position?</p>

<p>7) Simultaneously work towards meeting my physical, financial, and social goals.</p>

<p>8) Consider grad school.</p>

<p>9) Travel (because why not?).</p>

<p>It maybe misguided or it maybe just plain wrong, but it is my belief that if I can do all of that, then one day I will be a doctor. I cannot in good consience quit because I know that I am not a pothead who should be on academic probation. I know I have the capability to be successful at school if I just stop getting distracted by my past and my fears. My school is in Canada, and our Uni’s med school takes the overall average and an adjusted average where the worst 30 credits are removed. They also factor in grad school grades to both of the averages, so if I can do all of that I might actually have a chance of getting in.</p>

<p>As for my culture, will I be older than most of the Indian med students? Yea. Will I endure hell from my family as I go through this? You bet. But I just don’t give a $hit anymore. I just can’t. This is my life and I am going at my own pace. I do wish that I had been in a better position than this, but I hope that if I can do everything on that list, it will give me a better perspective on life when I enter med school. I believe that struggling like this to achieve a goal creates character.</p>

<p>Anyways, this is pretty much it. Ive made a contract with myself and will somehow see all of this through starting from today. Any other suggestions to the list are more than welcome.</p>

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<p>OP,</p>

<p>First off, are you an american citizen? You have never mentioned anything about Canada before and if you are not a US citizen, your road to a US MD will be exponentially more difficult even if you had a 4.0 and a 45 since some schools flat out do not consider international applicants.</p>

<p>I am glad that you have decided to do exactly what we told you six months ago in spite of the fact that you were adamant about not doing it when we first mentioned to you. This is why this time around you got more of the “give up” posts as those of us who remember you remember that for 6 pages of posts you were unwilling to actually put in the effort necessary to make up for your mistakes (unwilling to work as a research assistant or take more than 1-2 years off) and were criticizing anyone who tried to help you in any way (criticizing us and twisting our words). While your willingness to explore previously unacceptable options shows some growth, the way in which you’re doing it shows you still have a long way to go. Good luck to you, and as was said multiple times in the last thread, don’t forget to work on your attitude because you’ve said/done a lot of things in these two threads that would tank even the best applications.</p>

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<p>Many schools accept internationals. D’s class have them.</p>

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<p>Most US medical schools do not accept international students. Some schools will accept international students. Your daughter just happens to be attending one of them.</p>

<p>Please see: [Medical</a> School Admissions Policies Towards Non-US Citizens](<a href=“Home - NAAHP”>Home - NAAHP)</p>

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<p>I am a US citizen, a Canadian Permanent Resident, and even have Overseas Citizenship status to India. Three in one baby.</p>

<p>Uh as I recall, what you told me to do was to work as a lab tech and survive of off 30K a year till im in med school lololol. Like that’s possible. No thanks, Im interested in a job that pays a little better than that (so that I CAN actually support myself considering the fact I live in America, not Africa or India) and has a little higher of a social status. Im hoping to graduate and maybe do a masters or something so that I can land an actual research job with an actual salary.</p>

<p>Moreover, I have a life to live and medical school takes a while. I have about 1.5 years of UG left and 2-3 years after is all im going to take off. I don’t want to be a grandpa when I enter medical school. Its sad enough that ill be older than most Indian med students, I don’t want to come in to med school with a full white beard and bald hair.</p>

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<p>Uh, my DD took a year and worked in a research lab at a Canadian university, she made about $30-$35k, she lived just fine, saved some money for travel AND got one year of full time research experience, one year of full time patient contact, a strong letter of rec from her PI, a conference presentation and the potential of a publication. I think it was a strong part of her med school application.</p>

<p>Yes, she is ‘behind’ people who did not take a gap, but so what, she had great experiences and she was able to return to to school for the intense experience that is med school being refreshed from time away and also ready to get back to academics. If anything it made her more certain of her decision to pursue med school.</p>

<p>If you were my kid, I would suggest you need time to regroup. You cannot be a doctor and be happy if you are only doing it to avoid cultural humiliation. I would suggest you need some time away, away from school and away from your family, working and getting a handle on who you want to be “when you grow up” </p>

<p>It’s great for your family or culture to decide being a doctor equals success, but being a doctor will not make you happy unless it is what you really want to be.</p>

<p>If you are a Canadian resident, are you planning to apply to your provincial med school? If you are applying to the states, then you will miss out on one of the best opportunities for admissions, your home state school. What if you research the states, find one with MD & DO schools which seem open minded to viewing applicants holistically and move there, get a research job, support yourself, get involved in hobbies and medically related ECs. THEN apply to transfer to that state school and finish your degree. This will give you time to really get your act together. You had an old thread where you were concerned about your marks and were planning to turn things around, but it did not work out well. You cannot afford another bad term.</p>

<p>Take the time off so you can pull yourself together and be completely strong and focused upon your return. Apply to the state schools for instate tuition and more importantly, in state admissions. Then you have a story an adcom may entertain. You screwed up, you took time off, you fixed the issue, you returned and did well.</p>

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<p>PS: you may be able to rehabilitate your transcript for DO schools by retaking any class marked below C, but that will take time and you really need to be ready to make it work.</p>

<p>I know kids personally who had a rough start and did turn things around and I know kids who kept doggedly at it, trying to make each term better, but not figuring out what needed to change until too late.</p>

<p>This is not the SDN forum, no one here is getting any ego points by talking you out of being worthy for med school, rather we want to help you see reality and find a way to turn your situation around.</p>

<p>I would tell you to stop trying to impress others and begin trying to impress yourself.</p>

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<p>Sigh! A long way, you are exhausting! You have had lots of this same discussion here, in another CC thread, and even on a different forum. How about you stop your self-beating message (I can bare the shame and the humiliation of it because I deserve it. It is my fault that I am in such a bad position. My self-hatred …) This sets up a pattern of how folks respond to you and it’s not at all how you feel. Listen to what has been said? </p>

<p>Or is it you don’t like what has been said? * what you told me to do was to work as a lab tech and survive of off 30K a year till im in med school lololol. Like that’s possible. No thanks, Im interested in a job that pays a little better than that (so that I CAN actually support myself considering the fact I live in America, not Africa or India) and has a little higher of a social status. Im hoping to graduate and maybe do a masters or something so that I can land an actual research job with an actual salary.* In these years of recession, many post-grads would be thrilled to find a $30K job.</p>

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<p>I’m really hating OP’s condescending attitude in this thread. Even if you don’t like the advice given to you, you should thank those for taking the time out of their lives to at least give their input. Another thing that strikes me is your attitude towards careers in the medical field that don’t happen to be the “doctor” job—if you don’t like them, that’s fine, but don’t act as if they are beneath being a doctor; they all contribute to the well-being of people and some people actually CHOOSE to take that job and are ashamed of nothing. A doctor cannot do EVERYTHING by himself/herself and your close-mindedness makes me believe that your attitude is part of the problem.</p>

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<p>Thank you somemom for your sincere advice and i’m glad that things worked out for your D.</p>

<p>Your daughter seems to have only taken 1 year off before medical school. I am going to graduate college when I am 23. I am already behind people in undergrad. I don’t want to be 30 when I START med school. I don’t mind being 30 when I START RESIDENCY. Time is a factor and I cannot sit by and watch everyone surpass me. I have had enough of being left behind in life.</p>

<p>I have already transferred from a uni in NY to uni in Canada. It was the worst decision I made in my life and if I could, I wish I had stayed put in NY. However, I can’t afford to transfer again or take time off since my parents are paying for my education.</p>

<p>I think getting a reasearch job after I graduate and redoing classes sounds good, not ideal, but in the end if its what I have to do be a doctor then so be it. I know that I need to take and retake classes till my GPA is above the 3.0 mark. That coupled with a strong MCAT may make me competitive for DO schools. But somemom is there any hope at all for an MD? Im not interested in the Carribbean, but if I do all that would it be worth it to consider an SMP further down the road? If I can be competitive for DO schools say, when im 25, would it be worth it to spend an extra year or two, time, money, for an SMP to get into an MD school (I mean 27 is really quite old)?</p>

<p>How did your daughter land such a research job? What are the requirements and what should I do from NOW (need to learn to prepare AHEAD of time) to get a job like that?</p>

<p>Is it easier to get a job at a university or a private hospital? Im a resident of NY and was looking for tech jobs at NY Presbytarian, Memorial Sloan, etc. These big prestigious places sound nice to work at, but they require state lab tech licensing or something. Is that required for these jobs?</p>

<p>Thanks as always.</p>

<p>@ naueth: The way the hospital hierarchy (as heirarchies exist in any social setting) works is: Patients > Doctors> Nurses > Paramedics > CNA > EMT > Lab Techs > Orderlies > Secretaries > Janitors.</p>

<p>I mean you could move around the jobs after doctor in the order of your preference or how much you think they impact human lives. But that’s the general idea. Sure, some people enjoy doing those jobs and I agree that doctors can’t do EVERYTHING. Someone needs to do the grunt work and ill have experience with that after I graduate working in a lab and collecting data while PI’s and doctors do the actual work (treatment). However, my ultimate goal is to have a job that’s much more cerebral in nature.</p>

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<p>OP, you need to change your attitude. (I know about your depression/drug abuse etc but honestly, in the eye of the adcom, that is your problem. Hence you’d better get that fixed or face a brutal rej from everywhere you apply)</p>

<p>The idea that you need to enter med sch in order to “satisfy your ethnic pride preordained in your genes”, is well, utterly flawed (not to mention smth along the line of confirmation bias: ‘all indian premeds went on to be great docs’) You enter med sch not to satisfy your own blardy ego, not to surpass somebody else, not to earn recognition watsoever. Quick news flash: you become a doctor TO TREAT A SICK PATIENT! The med schs invest resources for that 1 single idea, plain and simple. All the extra perks may or may not come once you have successfully establish yourself as someone capable to treat/diagnose diseases. Hence if you choose to stick to this warped perception, then your application process, assuming you magically get your GPA/grades up, will stop at the interview stage where you get eliminated.</p>

<p>Furthermore, what is wrong with a job as a research assistant/lab tech? If you consider them to be from somewhere not with ‘a little higher of a social status’ then you are wrong again. Firstly, pay is not equivalent to social status. 30K can feed a whole family if the person spend within his/her means. Secondly, you are still a student and for now, out of job. So you have the least amount of rights to talk about ‘social status’ in the first place. (More so given your abysmal result since that won’t help with landing you in a job that pays >30K, which, in your mind, is of a higher social status). Guess what: beggars can’t be choosers. By same logic, non-doctors who work in the hospital deserve equal respect and recognition. It is a team that successfully treat a patient, not doctors alone. If you are so ‘ashamed’ to work alongside a doctor, then perhaps you need to realize that it is now 21st century. ALL JOBS HAVE EQUAL DIGNIFY and there is no shame being a PA, pharmacist, nurse, secretary or janitor. </p>

<p>On forum etiquette: you are asking for answers to your solution (mainly the issue of raising GPA). People gave you responses and outlined the inevitability of the extra years in UG. You chose to ignore that and went back to ask the very same question: how to improve my GPA? Hence does that mean that you are asking “how to improve without the extra years?” Short ans: You can’t. Long ans: You caaaaaaaaaan’t! You can choose between entering late by applying late, or applying now and receiving all rej letters(not to mention wasting the app fee). </p>

<p>/end rant</p>

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<p>I respectfully disagree. Look, I know that all people deserve respect on some base-level. I never debated that point. However to say that a janitor is equally respectable as a doctor is just, well, plain wrong. Even if you are the best janitor in the world, never missed a day of work, always know where the Clorox is kept, etc, etc.</p>

<p>At the end of the day, you are still a janitor. A doctor is so much more and does so many more things to actually benefit society. A nurse, PA, pharmacist, etc. are NOT equivalent to doctors. They just cannot be. The most cerebral part of medicine warrants the most respect. The harder the job, the more respectable it is for the people doing it and the doctors are responsible for the majority of treatment and ensuring the well being of patients. Nurses, PAs, EMTs, etc, may assisst the doctor and help with grunt work of treatment, and that warrants enough respect for that level.</p>

<p>Furthermore, I have accepted that I will need to get a research job and build up my GPA. I am looking at tech jobs in a lab (hopefully at some well-known hospital) while trying to bring up my GPA and kill the MCAT. As for the “pay doesn’t = social status” thing, sure it may not always be true 100% of the time. But you don’t find too many millionares who are social rejects. As you said, this is the 21st century, and money = power. But your right, at this stage with these grades, I shouldn’t aspire for things too great. I will be happy with a research job insofar as I have stable pay and enough money to support myself.</p>

<p>Im entering med school because I want to treat patients and be a damn good physician. I have my own story for how my inspiration came for being a physician (independent of any ethnic pressure) and my own story of how I fell off that path and getting into this situation. The point that I was trying to make was that it is hard being Indian and being in a race and society surrounded by overacheiving people when I am, quite frankly, like this. I wish I could change my stupid culture’s mentality with a flip of a switch but I can’t. Whatever, I will endure the hardship, insults, and lack of support from my society while I go down this long hard road. One day when I hopefully become a doctor, I will go and dump on everybody from my stupid race who is giving me hell right now. Every single Indian pre-med I know has successfully gotten into med school, or will in the near future. It just sucks being the odd one out all the time.</p>

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<p>Wow, just wow. </p>

<p>

</p>

<p>OP, I am not trying to be mean, but your post history and story does not make a good physician. You really don’t come across as a “people” person. You may make it through the initial screening, but if you come across as you do here in an interview, it won’t matter if you have a 4.0 and a 40 mcat.</p>

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<p>You may question the validity of our feedback here just purely on the basis that, prob, none of us works in the adcom office. However, it should take more than a coincidence to get different people behind numerous computer screens to have the same impression of you (you won’t make it). Maybe once you figure that reason out then you might have a higher chance of admission.</p>

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<p>

Woody Allen famously said, “I wouldn’t join a club if the members were people like me.” (or something like that) </p>

<p>

Stop comparing yourself to anyone else!!!<br>

And the person who is giving you the hardest time of all is YOU. Why are you ranting here on something you can’t change and shouldn’t want to? It is who you are! I sure hope that’s NOT why you want to become an MD.</p>

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<p>You seem to be stuck in a loop and somehow believe that publicly castigating yourself will make it all better. You don’t need to impress us or anyone else with how much you understand that you are a failure as an Indian. It is good that you recognize you have made mistakes and that you are not defending them, BUT something about the way you communicate here is causing most people to react negatively. It will will liley be the same for your med school application, you definitely need an attitude adjustment before applying if you want success.</p>

<p>DD got her job through perseverance and a referral. She asked everyone she could for referrals, visited the place 6-9 months before the job offer and really lucked out that they had an opening come up when she was available. The connection to the lab was a reference from a professor at her school (different school than the lab)</p>

<p>Honestly if you were my kid, I would try to help you figure out something you could do that would help you value yourself, you seem to be flailing about in a panic and not in a good place emotionally for making important decisions and changes.</p>

<p>You went to school #1, hated it, then transferred to school #2 and hate it. What is the common factor? You! Changing your environment won’t help if you are unhappy with yourself, but it would be good to NOT be in school getting bad marks whilst you fix that!</p>

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<p>NY and Canada, right? I’ll do my best never to refer patients near either of those places!</p>

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<p>@ kristin: Don’t forget India, UK, California, Chicago, New Jersey, and Miami as well. This is just a starting point, I plan to be everywhere and treat everyone. At the same time. </p>

<p>@ somemom: I understand how I may sound on here, however I am actually not like this in real life. One of the benefits of an anonymous online forum is that you have the ability to express your fears and your thoughts without being judged by people you actually know. Just because I say these things online doesn’t indicate in anyway that I actually interact with people like this in real life. As I mentioned already, this is an outlet for me to vent my fears and I understand I may have gone overboard, but w/e. Its the internet. It can handle it.</p>

<p>I am trying to value myself and get a grip on my life so that I can take the right steps forward to turn things around. Its just hard having no support from family and friends. I am trying to walk down a tunnel I have never gone down before with no light to guide me. I can only hope that I grope my way through till I see the light at the end.</p>

<p>Now about the job: Is it best to go through it like that or should I “apply” for a tech position (which would require licensing and stuff)? How did your D’s prof help her? What steps should I take with my profs so that I can ensure I have some support?</p>

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<p>My DD wanted a job in a particular region, she spoke to every professor, every TA, every doctor, every coach, everyone she had interacted with at her school to ask if anyone had suggestions. She spread the word that she was looking for a job.</p>

<p>She visited the area and met with numerous people and got one job offer months later. So, on the one hand it looks like the perfect job fell in her lap, on the other hand she pursued it avidly and doggedly and only got one offer, there was definitely luck.</p>

<p>I would look for any research at any university, don’t stress prestige, if they are a research institute then that is good enough. Maybe a lower ranked university would allow you to relax as others in the lab may not be such keeners. You need a bit of time to relax and just get your act together before you challenge yourself retaking classes.</p>

<p>Don’t be proud, take anything that gets you medically related experience and allows you to support yourself.</p>

<p>Of course your parents are afraid for you to take time off, any parent would be afraid you are dropping out and may never go back. If you present this as part of a plan, you may be able to show them that this is not a drop out, but an important step in a plan which ends with you having a degree and a high GPA in your final years.</p>

<p>MD, I don’t know. If you get a 4.0 on every class and blow away the MCAT, some schools will still look at your cumulative score and not invite you. Other schools may be intrigued, but you should have a strong chance with a DO school which will replace those grades.</p>