<p>My gut reaction is to think that a semester abroad is advised IF the student wants a semester abroad experience -- not to get away from dealing with a problem...</p>
<p>My son had no adjustment issues as far as being away from home- he had been away for 5 years already. He is an older student (20 now). He is very social and met kids starting at the Preview weekend the previous spring. He got in with a way-too-social crowd, including a young man with funds at his disposal which boggled my mind (and my son's). He took some courses that turned out to be really bad because he needed them for his anticipated transfer into the pre-professional school he came to loathe. The writing course that should have been really interesting and fun was taught by a TA who was so awful that 6 of the 12 kids enrolled dropped the course almost immediately. My son stuck with it and got a disappointing (for him) grade even though he outperformed everyone else (the other 5) in the class. His large lecture classes have been, for the most part, "worthless" (quote). His perception is that his classmates are only there for the degree and the big bucks they are going to make with said pre-professional degree. They don't care about reading or learning. An alum asked by the college to contact my son and his friend when they went AWOL in March told the boys, "Yes, it's a bunch of ********, but you put up with it to get the prestigious degree." This is not what my son wants for $42K a year.<br>
I agree that there are many ways to have a better experience at this university. I have a good friend on this forum who is a senior at this school and he has had an amazing experience and I'm proud of him for his acceptances into top law schools. He has been a huge help to me and a source of comfort. Every kid is different and my son always seems to have complicated circumstances. He was also privileged to have had an extremely intellectually focused final two years of high school with a mentor that encouraged learning and the love of reading and attending lectures. At college, there was no adult that gave a sh1t about my son's existence. This was supposed to have been his coach. His advisor stepped up to the plate this spring, but it was too late. This kid, who is an extremely visible (for better or worse-often "for worse") young man, agonized over getting recs for his transfer applications because, even with his strong grades, there were no professors or TAs who knew him well enough to give a rec!<br>
I am not necessarily criticizing this school. I love it and was thrilled that my son chose it. It is what it is. I just don't know if you can always tell in advance WHAT it is or what the kid will come to want from the experience.</p>
<p>MOWC,
Even though my daughter's circumstances were quite different from your son's, one thing they had in common is that the both applied ED, which, in retrospect, was probably a mistake for my daughter. I agree with you that what she came to want from her college experience changed (or maybe that she didn't know enough early in her senior year to realize that the first school would not provide the experience she hoped for.)</p>
<p>My point is, do you think that applying ED has anything to do with future unhappiness leading to desire to tranfer?</p>
<p>"I am not necessarily criticizing this school."</p>
<p>Why not? It sounds pretty clearly like, for whatever reason, they failed him, and, at $42k a year, "no adult that gave a sh1t about my son's existence."</p>
<p>Doesn't mean others' experiences couldn't be different. But you certainly can criticize on the basis of your own experience.</p>
<p>I am not criticizing it because there are many kids who are perfectly happy, including kids in the pre-professional school that want the i-banking jobs with the big salaries that my son thought HE wanted! He just didn't know what price you had to pay to get it. No one ever pretended it wasn't a pre-professional, urban school with little nurturing. </p>
<p>Momoftwo- I think ED was the right choice for my son, especially as a recruited athlete with a checkered disciplinary record. He was really sure about his choice. He would not have picked the small school with the pretty purple cow which he now wants because it seemed too much like his boarding school. Now he realizes that the things he loved about the boarding school are really key for his academic happiness. After a year in a dirty, nasty city (where I grew up, so I can say this :) ), the rural mountains are looking really good. Again-circumstances vary. If he had been a healthy athlete who bonded with his coach and teammates and was on a strict training schedule, this whole chapter might be written differently.</p>
<p>Gosh, I am an alum of the small school with the pretty purple cow and they pretty much pride themselves on being virtually the best "pre-professional" school in the country. (For all I know, it might be.) (And speaking of kids with disposable incomes....:eek:)</p>
<p>We are in the throes of choosing D's school for next year. (Yes, I mean we, since D's choices are narrowed down to two schools with significant difference in aid.) Thread's like this one add some angst. Someone told me yesterday, "She can always transfer." I really don't want to start all over again next year. I think kids lose a bit when they transfer - adjusting all over again. And if the new school doesn't fit either?</p>
<p>We are doing the best we can, but there is no way to predict how kids will react, how they will change, how they will adapt. Is it worth the lower price if the fit is a bit too tight or a bit too baggy? Or pay a lot and have the kid outgrow it?</p>
<p>binx,</p>
<p>You spoke my mind on this. Resorting to transferring when things are not perfect seems a bit risky. The transfer students I remember in college always seemed to be "outsiders" to a degree, since they didn't go through the whole freshman dorm thing with everyone else.</p>
<p>I have warned my kids that it is extremely likely that they will be unhappy at college, at least at the beginning. But I think its important to remember why they are there (and the reason is not to find the perfect living situation.)</p>
<p>mini- NO KIDDING! YOU are an alum of the purple cow! :)
There is pre-professional and there is where my son is, which is in a category all its own. Mini- interestingly enough, all of the purple grads I have met are either similar to you or are prep school teachers. I tend to see less $$$ in the eyes. Lest I confuse the issues- my son wants big bucks. He just doesn't want to sacrifice his education at this point in order to have those bucks in the future. I WANT my son to have big bucks. I want him to buy me nice things and pay me back for some of the sleepless nights.</p>
<p>Peter, just found this thread so forgive me if I repeat anyone (skimmed the pages).</p>
<p>Our son, soph., was very unhappy last year. In fact during one of my worrying sleepless nights was when I found cc and made my first post asking for advice about him. </p>
<p>He went to his dream school and found that the reality didn't match what he had envisioned. He did (and still does) like the academics, but socially was not a good fit. He toyed with the idea of transferring after freshman year, but felt he wanted to give it more time as it was his "dream" and he did have other nonschool issues going on as a freshman also (surgery, girlfriend problems, etc).</p>
<p>Well, soph year came and he and some guys filled a suite of 5 boys--2 were so unhappy they left at Christmas (one transferred and one dropped out) another changed rooms due to a new student placed in suite and the only one remaining of original group pretty much lives at his frat.</p>
<p>Son now is waiting to hear from his transfer application and says that he has given it long enough and will leave if transfer comes through.</p>
<p>I really wish he had left after freshman year, but maybe he would have always questioned whether he had given it a fair shot. I have my fingers crossed that the transfer will come through and he will be comfortable and happy at the new school (a school that I couldn't force him to look at originally, btw---and also much cheaper :)).</p>
<p>I'm sure transferring won't be easy (there will be an adjustment), but neither would staying 2 more years at a place you never feel at home.</p>
<p>Well, we've had three former presidents of the New York Stock Exchange (and only one Pres. of the United States, and he for only a few short months).</p>
<p>Gosh. I doubt he is going to find it much different (though maybe a different coach will help alot.) Feel welcome to PM me if you'd like.</p>
<p>Binx,
I don't think anyone should start out with the idea of transferring if things are not perfect.It was the last thing we expected from our daughter! I would not worry about it too much - just like many other unpleasant occurrences that there is some slight chance of happening, the odds of someone being unhappy enough to transfer are quite low. </p>
<p>Bay,
You are probably right about many transfers seeming like "outsiders", but fortunately it does not seem to be the case with the transfers at Swarthmore (at least my daughter and her roommate, and the others she has spoken about.) Maybe it is because there are no freshman dorms, so they did not miss out on a freshman dorm experience. It seems that their dorm experience encompasses all four classes, so they are just naturally part of things along with everyone else.</p>
<p>Bay, I don't think the "outsider" issue will be a problem for my son as he has felt like an outsider for the last two years and had lived in dorms the whole time. So I guess it will be nothing new and maybe he can find a group at a different school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Resorting to transferring when things are not perfect seems a bit risky.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Believe me, when a kid makes the tough decision to transfer, it's not simply because things are less than perfect. Things are miserable. Horrible. Unbearable. Obviously, we'd all prefer that our kids make the right decision the first time around, and my daughter would be the first to say she wishes she had chosen her current school originally. But although it takes guts at first, most transfer students make the transition quite well. And the entire process of choosing incorrectly, then making a wiser choice next time, is a profound learning experience. Not all bad.</p>
<p>MOWC: It is not a "dirty nasty city". But I have heard similar complaints about the intellectual quality of the undergraduate experience at its most prestigious university before. Obviously, my kids know a lot of kids there, and some are as happy as pigs in what pigs are happy in. Others not so much, for the same kind of reason your son cites (and the famous pre-professional school bears a lot of the blame, because it attracts a huge number of smart kids who are only in it for the money).</p>
<p>Mini's cynicism notwithstanding, I would bet that Purple Cow College offers more intellectual sugarcoating on the pre-professional experience, along with more rustic scenery.</p>
<p>Here is the original thread when I posted about my son's freshman experience. There were many thoughtful responses you might want to look through Peter.</p>
<p>JHS- I know. I was only kidding. I love my cheesesteaks! I do think the whole city thing got a little old, though, especially with the snow and rain.</p>
<p>Mom of a semi-traumatized transfer here. DS went off to AU. hated it madly the first semester. Joined a frat and made wonderful friends. Big differences in spending money, but otherwise lots of fun. Semi-formals, parties, more parties. Grades? haha. He did just ok. We had severe $ issues and he was happy to transfer to Rutgers. Not happy to leave AU but figured he'd have a grand time since he knew a zillion kids there. His first year there was far worse than any upset at AU, and for a reason we never thought to check into ahead of time. Rutgers has a big main campus and two small ones across a river about 20+ minutes by bus. One is in a small urban city, the other two have trees and deer. All transfers in the school had to live in the one dorm. He was put in the basement. Open piping in the hallways, cement floor, non-english speaking roommate. For him the dorm life was just the pits.
The other issue, which he did very well with, was the shock of the difficulty of the work. Junior year was not big classes with TAs all the time, and the level of work was much harder than AU.
A friend's son just moved home after one semester at a HBC. He had two problems - one he turned out not only not to be able to play his sport, he was not able to practice with them after all. The asst. coach came and asked for the team shorts back and that was his only contact. He visited our local state U. with a h.s. teammate and the coach did everything to help him get into school and do well in classes. Being back with a team, for him, far outweighed leaving the first choice school and having to be a commuter this semester.
The other problem is he is used to our wonderfully mixed town and found he missed that.</p>
<p>One of my kids left school..fall of soph. year. Just walked right out mid semester and never went back. I sent her to her childhood Dr. and to a counselor. The people she talked to that were able to be objective told her she did the right thing. She moved home, got a job and went to work. She never blinked. I on the other hand was pulling out my hair. This was not according to the plan! The thing that has saved her from my "plan" is her stubborn streak. She always did things her own way, on her own timetable ...why did I expect this to be any different? So I eased up, took a deep breath and let her be.</p>
<p>She is finding her way and has applied to a different school after talking to many kids at many schools and asking the questions that are important to her. She now knows exactly what she doesn't want and thinks she is closer to knowing what she does want. </p>
<p>I learned to really listen and not be so focused on the end result that I ignore the journey. She's a great and talented young adult who had no patience to go through the motions and just get the diploma. She wants it all.</p>
<p>Good grief...no one ever said it would be easy.</p>
<p>
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It seems that their dorm experience encompasses all four classes, so they are just naturally part of things along with everyone else.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The housing system has the effect of reshuffling the deck for just about all students at the begining of each year, so everyone is meeting new people. The only difference is that a returning pair of sophmores might be on a hall with two or four others from their freshman hall, but that's about it.</p>
<p>Actually, transfers might have an advantage as I would guess that the housing office tries to house them in one of the larger on-campus dorms to facilitate meeting people. Returning sophmores might not have the lottery numbers for those desireable social dorms.</p>