<p>Hey guys, I was just accepted today as an OOS transfer and I have a couple questions about IU. I'm a marketing major but I know that means I'm not in Kelley yet. How difficult is it to be accepted into the school after a semester at IU? I have a 3.6 gpa as a frame of reference if it helps. Also, does anyone know how difficult it is to get housing as a transfer? I appreciate any help that can be offered.</p>
<p>Generally, it takes about a 3.1 to 3.2 GPA in the required courses to get into Kelley (they say 3.0 is the minimum). If you get a 3.6 in your first semester, you’ll have no problem.</p>
<p>To get housing, you apply at the housing website:</p>
<p>[IU-RPS</a> - About RPS](<a href=“http://www.rps.indiana.edu/about.cfml]IU-RPS”>http://www.rps.indiana.edu/about.cfml)</p>
<p>As long as you get your application in by May 1st, you’ll have no probem getting housing. However, to get your choice of neighborhood, apply as soon as possible. It’s on a first-come, first-served basis. (Central seems to be the popular choice for business majors unless you want to “party” a bit. Then Northwest is the popular choice.) </p>
<p>Good luck–and congratulations on your transfer admittance!</p>
<p>Thank you so much Calcruzer, your insight on many posts I have read is invaluable. I really want to attend IU but am a little worried about not getting into Kelley and getting stuck in a major I don’t want. It’s good to know that if I keep up with my record I’ll be alright. I’d also like to live on campus for my first year so knowing housing shouldn’t be an issue is refreshing. Now all I have to worry about is the adjustment from San Diego to Bloomington!</p>
<p>Calcruzer, Kelley’s admissions have changed and are not based exclusively on overall GPA, as I have recently stated elsewhere. </p>
<p>Transfer students must complete at least one semester on the IUB campus before applying. You must complete all standard admission requirements, including required admissions courses. You must have earned grades of B or higher in all courses, including those taken at the first institution. Any grades below B, especially those in the required admissions courses (math, composition, computer in business), will put you at high risk for getting turned down. Thus, if an overall 3.1 or 3.2 GPA included a grade of C+, for example, you might not get admitted to Kelley if that grade were in a math course.</p>
<p>inthemid, I have one C from a macro econ course during my first semester. Could that be a huge detriment to my application? Over my last 42 units I have all A’s with 2 B’s so assuming everything stays the same at IU should I be alright (taking into consideration the 1 C)? I really want to attend IU, but my fear of not getting into Kelley once I’m there could prevent me from going.</p>
<p>Inthemid, thanks for your input, but I’m not sure I agree with your analysis of exactly what it takes to get into Kelley.</p>
<p>Oz has already realized that he can’t get admitted until completing the next semester at IU-B, and while it is true that his one C could keep him from being admitted, it is not very likely. My own son received a C in one of his 4 “standard admission” classes, and yet was still admitted to Kelley only one year ago (after Fall Semester 2007) under Standard Admission Process I. Of course, he had already taken 49 units at that point (including 11 of the 16 I-Core prerequisites) and had an overall 3.4 GPA, so this helped–but what I guess I’m saying is that the overall GPA can definitely overcome a single C or C+. </p>
<p>The courses that have to be taken have been posted on threads on here already so many times that it seems like I could recite them by heart–however, here’s the link to the necessary classes, which I did fail to list in my original post:</p>
<p>[Future</a> IU Freshmen: Admissions: Undergraduate Program: Kelley School of Business: Indiana University Bloomington](<a href=“Undergraduate | Bachelor's Degree in Business | Indiana Kelley”>Undergraduate | Bachelor's Degree in Business | Indiana Kelley)</p>
<p>Oz, I don’t think the C would look that bad with all the other good grades you have. You definitely need to get good grades in at least three of the four really difficult classes they look at to get into Kelley, which are MATH M118 Finite Math (or MATH M118 Intro Calculus, you only have to have taken one of these math classes by the time you apply), BUS A100 Basic Accounting Skills and BUS K201 The Computer in Business. Kelley wants well rounded students with good math and computer skills, and also people who can dedicate themselves to learning difficult content pretty much on their own, which is the case with A100. There are lots of threads on this board that detail how to be successful in A100. These courses are weed out courses at Kelley, and have very high rates of students not even getting a C in them (last semester percentage of students with a C- or less was A100-50%; M118-45%; M119-43%; K201-30%). The C is required for each one of these classes in order to take I-Core and get the Kelley degree. But you really want to get at least a B in all of these to be a strong candidate to get into Kelley. </p>
<p>So a bigger factor than your C in macro would be your performance in the classes mentioned above. (Actually, very few Kelley applicants have taken macro by the time they apply, although many will have completed micro by the time their admit decision is made. You might consider taking micro at IU and getting a strong grade in it to try to offset the weak grade in macro; 33% got a B or higher in micro last semester). But with the expense of being OOS, and potentially not getting into Kelley, I would make sure that I was well-prepared for these difficult classes or had a lot of confidence in myself to do well in them.</p>
<p>Calcruzer, I actually work for the Kelley School and thus am acutely aware that what you are stating on the threads is not completely accurate. You are basing your assessment of Kelley admission on prior years’ data and anecdotal evidence, not on the current situation. </p>
<p>Let me establish with this post that overall GPA does not matter at all for standard admission. Rather, grades in each individual course should be B or above to ensure automatic admission. Any course grade below B puts a student at high risk for denial, and the admissions committee will review your application to determine if the lower grade provides sufficient justification for a denial decision.</p>
<p>Admissions standards are being more strictly enforced than ever before. For Spring 2009 standard admit applicants, only 53% attained successful admission to Kelley. Students with even one low grade (i.e. B- or below) in an admissions course (M118, M119, W131, K201) were considered high risk, and many were not admitted. Some students with overall GPAs of 3.2-3.4 were denied admission because of poor performance in one or more admissions courses. A grade of C in a math course, for example, could result in a denial decision.</p>
<p>As a transfer student with your particular scenario, your grade trend will matter more than anything. Your first semester in residence at IUB will matter immensely, as the committee will want to see how you perform in courses taken at Kelley. The grade of C in macro may be offset by your strong performance, but if your grades in courses taken at Kelley are not solidly B or above, you will be at considerably higher risk for denial. </p>
<p>I highly recommend that you speak with an admissions counselor at Kelley and discuss your particular situation.</p>
<p>Well, I actually kind of presumed that you worked for Kelley based upon your insistence that it takes more nowadays to get in than in the past. However, as I’m sure you are aware, it is difficult for me–as an outsider–to advise people on exactly what it takes when Kelley doesn’t release their latest admission numbers–nor establish a written policy on their website telling us what it takes.</p>
<p>Certainly, as Indiana University and the Kelley school increases the number of direct admits, this creates fewer and fewer spots for the standard admits–and this is what I and the others (like bthomp1, dstark, and Waverly) have been saying. How difficult will it be in the future? That I can’t say, since I’m not privy to the inner decisions at Kelley–nor on the numbers of standard admits they are expecting to admit versus the number of people they are granting pre-business university-division status to.</p>
<p>If Kelley wants to make it easier for people to figure this out by releasing some of this data, then it will be easier to advise people. Until that time, I can only go by historicals and by projections based upon the data we do have.</p>
<p>Since you are more aware of the new requirements, however, than the rest of us–just keep correcting us when we put out our estimates. There’s no problem with that at all.</p>
<p>One last thing: It is my view that Kelley does a disservice to those who are going to Indiana with the hope of gaining a business degree, but who were not given direct admission, when they limit the number of standard admits to less than 60% of the total class (as they’ve already done). What this says to students is that we allow you to gain admission to the business school based upon your high school performance–not based upon your college performance. I consider this a very sad state of affairs. The Hutton Honors program is also geared accordingly. I would much prefer to see a system that rewards college work during the first one or two years than one that essentially “shuts out” students before they even start taking classes at the school.</p>
<p>For this reason, it is my view that the direct admission standards should be raised even higher–thus limiting the numbers gaining direct admission status–and forcing all the remaining pre-business students to do well during their first year or two. </p>
<p>As we’ve seen from bthomp1’s post above, granting direct admission status to so many is actually reducing the amount of time that these students spend at Indiana University also. Many students come in with enough APs or IBs or college courses they’ve taken during their high school career to already have sophomore or even junior status. If the plan is to turn the Kelley program into a two-year program instead of a four-year program, the school is essentially accomplishing this without actually stating it as a goal. This is also misleading to those who are going to the school with the idea that it is a four-year business program, and I also believe it is creating no loyalty or great affection for the school–but rather just allowing it to be treated as a “bus stop” where someone is just passing through on their way to their career goal or graduate program school.</p>
<p>To play the devils advocate here, I am a direct admit who got the 8k a year OOS scholarship. If I was not offered DA, I would have not choosen IU. I came to IU with 20 credits already (my friend, also a DA, came with 34), but will be spending all four years here (with the exception of a possible semester abroad). I love IU and do not view it as a “bus stop”, nor do any other DA’s that I know of. Kelley is raising the requirements for direct admission each year (or at least has been for the past couple years), so it appears to me they are trying limit the amount of DA’s while at the same time raising the caliber of the students.</p>
<p>bthomp1, I actually just took micro this past semester and earned an A so hopefully that helps to offset my grade in macro. </p>
<p>So in order to get into Kelley I’m going to need to get at least B’s in admissions courses? I’ve already taken W131 and got a B, I took W231 as well and got an A. I’m going to visit Indiana sometime in the near future so would it be terribly difficult to schedule an appointment with a Kelley counselor?</p>
<p>I really appreciate all the help you guys have offered.</p>
<p>maxellis,</p>
<p>If you look at post #11 at this thread:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/indiana-university-bloomington/619890-kelley-admission.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/indiana-university-bloomington/619890-kelley-admission.html</a></p>
<p>you’ll see that for the honors financial accounting course, which is supposed to be the second accounting course direct admits take, the number of freshmen and sophomores being admitted is zero. This tells me that the entire direct admit class for accounting majors had at least 54 units by the end of the first semester (thus transferring in or getting AP/IB credits for at least 38 units each).</p>
<p>While accounting might be a bit of an exception, since the new rules encourage everyone to have 150 units by graduation (in order to qualify to take the CPA exam) and thus most students will need to stay at least 3 to 4 years even if they come in with a lot of units from high school work, it cannot be healthy for the school to take only people into this program that have a minimum of 38 units each before attending a single class at the university.</p>
<p>Look, I understand the other side, too. I was a 3.96 GPA in high school, and took 4 year-long AP classes and two year-long college classes by the time I graduated from high school. I was admitted to Brown, but went to a California state college instead for financial reasons. I finished school in less than 3 years and thus kept college costs low for me and my family. But I guess I have to wonder what the motivation is for students to excel in college, if they are already limited in their career choices before the first day of attendance. </p>
<p>Indiana’s business school and honors programs are working to make the school stand out based upon the students they admit from high school (I guess because this is based upon the way USNW ranks schools–putting a hefty premium on SAT scores and high school GPAs). Personally I’d rather that the business school and the honors programs stand out by motivating students at the school–and by making those not yet in direct admit programs have a reason for doing well in their classes while there–rather than treating them as some “second-class” citizens who have to earn the right to take the same major, and learn from the same courses, as their more “respectable” peers.</p>
<p>But, like I said, they are probably doing this in response to the USNW (US News and World Report) model, so in that regard, it is sad that USNW does the grading the way they do–and I shouldn’t be too tough on Indiana for trying to move up the rankings by playing the same game that the other “top ranked” colleges play.</p>
<p>P.S. Good luck to you, Oz in your direct admission chances–and please excuse my slight “hijacking” of your thread to discuss direct vs standard admission in more general terms.</p>
<p>Oz, I would say based on the post in that you need Bs in A100, M118 or M119, and K201, based on the post #12 here by Inthemid, who works at Kelley
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/indiana-university-bloomington/619890-kelley-admission.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/indiana-university-bloomington/619890-kelley-admission.html</a>
These are new standards with the 2008-2010 bulletin, and I was not aware of them. They are pretty explicit about getting all Bs. </p>
<p>But from anecdotal evidence, especially the case of a student that had a 3.5 but a B- in M119 and D+ in A100 (which the student eventually passed that summer), that all Bs is probably what makes someone a strong applicant. This student was deferred, and told they would be admitted if they got all Bs in the Fall semester, so the all Bs condition for her admittance is as deferred seems consistent with the standards in the 08/09 bulletin. </p>
<p>You can call Kelley advising 812.855.0611 and ask for the on-call advisor and I am sure they can give you more info or set up an appointment.
[Advising</a> and Registration: Academics: Undergraduate Program: Kelley School of Business: Indiana University Bloomington](<a href=“http://www.kelley.iu.edu/ugrad/academics/advising.cfm]Advising”>http://www.kelley.iu.edu/ugrad/academics/advising.cfm)</p>
<p>Calcruzer, the A205 class still has sophomores, but no freshmen got into it this year:</p>
<p>Class standing of A205 students:
Spring 2009
FR-None … SO66 … JR67 … SR5 … 3 sections</p>
<p>Spring 2008
FR08 SO108 … JR31 … SR4 … 3 sections</p>
<p>Spring 2007
FR33 … SO81 … JR35 … SR0 … 3 sections</p>
<p>Spring 2006
FR23 … SO41 … JR05 … SR01 … 2 sections</p>
<p>The table implies that direct admits now have way more hours coming into IU than they had just a few years ago, as registration for this class and all classes at IU are based on hours earned by the start of registration. The class was one-third freshmen class standing in 2006; this semester, there are no freshmen class standing students. The competition in these classes is brutal. About half the class members are listed in one start, and at least twelve of them are Wells, Presidential, or Kelley Scholars.</p>
<p>Also, I don’t think these students are staying only two or three years at IU. A lot of them are getting extra business majors, or even double or triple majoring in COAS majors like economics, which takes a lot of hours if you are in Kelley, too, and would be tough to do in four years even with lots of AP credit.</p>