Transfer Tales

Parents Forum
1

<p>I have been a member here for years (under a different name) and received valuable advice that helped one of my kids get into a top 25 school with considerable merit money. I got the call this week from said kid: kid is confused, doesn't know what to major in, doesn't like the school, has friends and is social, but doesn't truly connect with the people at the school. Kid is normal and not addicted to video games or other activities that preclude socializing with others. To top it off, kid now has a 2.3 or 2.5 GPA (don't know what it is as I have never seen the grade reports). None of this came as a surprise to me, by the way. To kid's credit, kid, who is in third semester, tried one interest first semester, another interest second semester, and still another emphasis this semester. Sprinkle in a few GE courses and kid remains confused and feels "academically useless." Kid is brilliant and excelled in college level classes while in HS but cannot seem to excel at this school. Kid chose school after being recruited to attend and enjoyed being the recipient of top scholarship, but turned down other top schools to attend. Now, we can all see kid would have been better off turning down scholarship (which kid will lose at the end of this year due to the GPA) and going to another school with a different vibe. Now, kid is considering a gap year while trying to figure out where to transfer. I have some questions:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>In this economy, what can a kid do during a gap year that will serve kid well both during the gap year and when reapplying to colleges? Are there any companies that hire English teachers abroad that do not require teacher to have an undergraduate degree? (Love kid dearly but would prefer not to have kid live home full time during gap year)</p></li>
<li><p>Transferring: Kid does not need to attend a top 25 school, but would like to have options for attending whatever school is RIGHT for him. How does kid "make up" for the dismal GPA? Kid feels stuck at school because kid needs 3.0 to transfer but will not have a 3.0 at the end of this academic year. Can kid take classes at a CC or does that make him have too many credits to transfer? For example, if kid decided to take a year of classes at a CC and got A's, would that make kid an incoming senior (unit-wise) in the eyes of some schools? Or can kid effectively start over at a CC and get an AA and treat other college units at the top 25 school as electives?</p></li>
<li><p>How to best help kid figure out what to study? Picking a major seems to be like climbing Mt. Everest for kid. Kid is open to seeing a counselor.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Any advice from experienced parents is very welcome! I do not want to take over this process as kid clearly needs to figure kid's own life out, but I would like to be able to point kid in the right direction to find help and to be able to offer practical info on the strategy of bringing that college gpa up for possible transfer. Background: kid had great high school GPA, top test scores (even for CC!), and was very involved in community service and other activities. In other words, opposite of kid's college experience.</p>

2

<p>See p.3 for the thread “Dropping out of college.” Some good suggestions, although my son’s GPA is worse than yours, so all the replies may not apply to you. Also, suggestion for gap year of Americorps was made by PM, which will go on our list of options.</p>

3

<p>It would be instructive to know why kid can’t make good grades at this college. Did kid not do the work without mom helicoptering? or was the work more difficult than expected? Though the latter seems unlikely based on an outstanding HS record. </p>

<p>Lack of motivation or interest? Did kid perhaps feel inadequate compared to all the other brilliant kids (which was not the case in HS)? Or simple immaturity?</p>

<p>Perhaps in addition to a job, counseling may be in order to help kid figure out what went wrong and where to go from here.</p>

<p>I am curious for other reasons…I may have a child who may consider transferring…</p>

4

<p>Hidingout-- has your child done the rounds of deans, advisors, etc? That would be a good starting place. I’m concerned that without input from people at the college, your son is making a decision based on his view of his failings (bad GPA, can’t find a major he’s excited about) with no further context. And if the goal is bringing up the GPA either to stay or go- it seems obvious to me that your son is going to need the full cooperation of the advising and counseling staff. They can look at the courses he’s taken, figure out if he’s been tracked into the wrong sequence (it happens); gotten the bad professors, has too many 8 am labs where he’s too sleepy to focus, or something else.</p>

<p>So if it were my kid I would be encouraging him to start with the Dean or Head of Academic advising as a first step.</p>

<p>Have you met any of his friends and what can you tell us about them?</p>

<p>And finally- and I mean this gently and lovingly-- has your kid picked up on your description of him as “brilliant” such that he feels that if he doesn’t understand something right away it must mean that it’s not for him? Or that if he can’t excel he should stop trying, i.e. B’s just aren’t good enough?</p>

<p>There are lots of smart, talented kids in college who work their brains out. Sometimes it’s because they intentionally stretch themselves. Sometimes its because their career goals don’t jive 100% with their natural talents (i.e. the person who wants to be a doctor or work in public health who finds math a significant struggle-- but who slogs through it.) And sometimes, they come in from HS hearing, “oh college is so much easier than HS” or “you’ll be at the top of the class no trouble” and it is a hard and painful awakening that this is just not so.</p>

<p>Hugs to you. what a painful place to be in for all of you right now.</p>

5

<p>Could your son still be transitioning to college life, as he is just in his third semester? Maybe his first year was a bit of a shock: away from home, no set goal/major, inability to develop a good study routine, social adjustments.</p>

<p>Perhaps before committing to transferring (where he will have another long adjustment period and possibly a less stimulating environment), a leave of absence would be best. Have him check with the school for internship opportunities (there are some programs to teach English in Africa for undergrads). Hopefully he can get excited about some gap activity which would fire his enthusiasm for returning to an academic program.</p>

<p>One of our DDs had 3 majors in 3 semesters and after a great summer internship, she returned to the original subject indicated on her college application. I think she needed the time to weed out other interests.</p>

<p>Good luck, I’m sure your son will find his path and much success.</p>

6

<p>Hidingout…I want to say that I’m sorry your son (and you) are going through this difficult time.</p>

<p>I’m also sad, though, that you feel the need to be anonymous. Why are you embarrassed about the fact that your son is having trouble and you are seeking advice? (It’s not just you of course…I’ve seen so many people post saying “I’ve been a poster here for years and now I want to tell you something not stellar about my kid so I don’t want you to know who I really am.”) </p>

<p>I don’t want to hijack your thread, but I just feel like competition has gotten out of control on CC if people who are already anonymous on a message board feel that they have to be even more anonymous in order to admit a problem.</p>

<p>Now, back to your son’s situation…there are so many stories out there about kids that are still finding themselves. I’m sure you will get some great advice here as you have before.</p>

7

<p>Thanks for the replies so far. Kid is smart - definitely had to work for grades in HS, but testing high was a pretty natural gift and kid didn’t prep too much. The academic advising for undeclared majors isn’t great, but I suppose I can check around and then let kid make calls. (I am reluctant to do much as this is kid’s life and any consequences will be kid’s consequences.) Kid’s GPA suffered in part (small part) frosh year due to previously undiagnosed LD (processing problems). Kid did the usual stupid things as a frosh, disorganized, skipping classes, overestimating “brilliance” and ability to get A’s on the fly, drinking, etc., but is generally responsible and fairly independent. However, kid is sincerely trying this semester and just got an average grade (C) on the midterm for favorite class, which is discouraging to kid. Kid feels equal intellectually with other students there. Kid isn’t leaving due to GPA problems. Even with the loss of scholarship, kid would be more likely to get FA from the current school than any other school kid would consider. The GPA problem is simply a flashing red light that serves as a warning that something is amiss. Mostly, kid is wanting to take a year off so kid can figure out what to study. Kid won’t transfer or go back to current school until kid has some idea what major to declare. What I want to figure out is how kid can use that year in a way that propels kid forward. Something like teaching English in Africa sounds great! I will suggest kid search around for opportunities through the school. Independence is not a problem. Adjusting to college life and other living away from home with strangers has never been a problem in the past. I think I remember hearing that Americorps had triple the applications they can handle… anyone know a kid who has done that this year or last year? It goes without saying that I have advised kid to get counseling. I have not been involved at all with kid’s academic college life. other than taking him to get evaluated last year. I am aware that this “situation” calls for some kind of action, but also appreciate that it is simply a turn in the road. No one is sick or dying. I just want to offer good practical advice to kid.</p>

8

<p>@readytoroll, I am being extra careful due to comment kid made to a family member several months ago that kid felt I had “loose lips.” I have been scaling back the amount of info I share about kids ever since, which is one reason I am on this forum asking strangers for advice. If people could link to other posts, it would disclose school and other info that could possibly compromise kid’s privacy. It isn’t competitiveness or shame.</p>

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<p>hidingout…understood. Thanks for the explanation, which of course was none of my business in the first place.</p>

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<p>Hiding, you should respect your kids privacy and we will respect yours.</p>

<p>Can you give us any insight into the range of classes kid has taken? Are they all Freshman/entry level types (Intro Econ, Psych 1, etc.)? Perhaps your kid needs the stimulation of a seminar or a different type of learning/study experience? This may be more important than the actual field- one of my kids switched majors about a dozen times-- until discovering it was the “experience” and not the subject matter. So landed in a field that sort of surprised us (even now years after graduating can’t answer the question “why did you major in that”) but did well, loved the academic experience once things settled down, and is happily employed.</p>

<p>I myself switched majors a bunch of times (back in the dark ages.) Can’t say that what I picked was the be-all and end-all of life- but it was a small department, I liked the professors and they liked me, the departmental secretary was a motherly type who baked cookies and made us cocoa when we were having a bad day, etc. So the major was not hugely relevant (I loved my classes but no more so than in other departments) but the whole “gestalt” of majoring in that department was wonderful, the grad students provided tons of mentoring and help, if you were lonely you could wander into the building and find someone you knew who wanted to have coffee and debate something esoteric for a while to kill time, etc. And there was always a tortured PhD candidate or post-doc around regaling us with tales of why you don’t want to be an academic.</p>

<p>So maybe you could help your son take his focus off the actual “major” and just identify what he likes and dislikes about college in general?</p>

11

<p>You don’t know his GPA because you’ve never seen an actual transcript? Then get your son to fax you a copy asap. If he won’t show you a real copy of his grades (which he can get to you within 24 hours a copy of his latest… or have him give you his password so you can log into his school account and view it online) then frankly, why are you helping your kid who refuses to be TRANSPARENT with you? </p>

<p>What I am seeing is you are doing all the worrying. These are all issues your son can figure out on his own time. As long as you fret and worry and seek out the “softest landing” possible for his own self-created problems then he can flounder at will. </p>

<p>1) Gap year? Tell him to get a job and save up as much money as possible. It is unlikely he’ll get a full-merit scholarship again with his 2.5-ish GPA. The fact that he’ll be a transfer student makes this even less likely. He frittered away his scholarship and top-25 school and unless you are planning to pay for his new school, the best message to give him is that <em>he</em> gets to be in charge of his finances now.</p>

<p>2) I would worry less about new target schools and more about him just working for 1 or 2 years and get his head on straight. A few years of working will have him appreciate what is available in college. If you insist on finding that exit plan, have HIM research his state schools for GPAs needed, community college options, etc. Have HIM create a chart of requirements (because often they differ school to school). Etc.</p>

<p>3) I think too much time is spent on having kids use college to “find themselves”. Or find the “perfect major”. At some point, to get through the college experience and earn a degree, the student needs to be a “good enough” major. A “good enough” major is</p>

<p>a) a field he can handle the upper-level division course work with moderate effort (avoid being an electrical engineer if one can’t handle math for example… avoid being an english literature major if one can’t handle reading up to 500 pages a week and churning out lots of analysis papers)</p>

<p>b) a field that isn’t completely abhorrent or completely boring</p>

<p>c) a field that has some future flexibility in terms of choosing grad school (even if it means taking a few extra classes later to be a better candidate - just good enough, not perfect) </p>

<p>There simply isn’t time and money for a kid to use more than 2 - 5 semesters to pick a major. He is going to have to be coached toward picking a “good enough” major. Remember some kids take 10+ years… especially if a parent is footing the bill.</p>

<p>It may be that your son has the idea that he is supposed to FEEL a certain way when he finds the “right school” and “right major”. While some can use feelings to steer them in the right direction, for some people, using a “feeling” doesn’t work. Sometimes you have to just analytically pick a reasonable choice and then muscle it through to the end. Yes, some people glow when they’ve found what makes them click. Your son might not find that glow right away… so he either can work a job until he does, or if he can’t find that glow - when he goes back to school he needs to be very clear he is going to have to ‘fake it until he makes it’ in terms of dedication and muscling it to the end of his degree.</p>

<p>Basically, he needs to (if he chooses) to finish <em>a</em> degree. </p>

<p>That’s my take on it. Unless there is an <em>actual</em> problem to deal with (drug use, medical issue, etc), it is probably the case of an unmotivated student. He hasn’t connected the dots yet… a degree is important… to get a degree I have to hang out at a top-25 college and DO the work… it isn’t meant to be fun (though fun can be had at ANY school with some flexibility and effort).</p>

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<p>While it varies from school to school, most top schools have a 2 yr residency requirement. In general, I don’t think many top colleges will be very open to accepting a transfer who is essentially a sr credit-wise. At some colleges, one can qualify as a transfer with more than 2 years of credits, but will be given transfer credits for at most 2 yrs worth of coursework; at others, the fact that they have over 2 yrs of college makes them ineligible to apply as a transfer student. I’m afraid that a kid can’t ever really start over gpa-wise, his transcript will stay with him, but if he gets himself together, he can definitely show improvement and demonstrate that he’s now willing to get with the program.</p>

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<p>Another possible option, City Year:</p>

<p>[City</a> Year](<a href=“http://www.cityyear.org/default_ektid13307.aspx]City”>http://www.cityyear.org/default_ektid13307.aspx)</p>

<p>I know a kid who was very immature out of HS, he was making some very bad decisions, and although he applied and was accepted by several colleges, his mom decided that he was not mature enough to go off to college and had him do City Year. He came back this summer and headed off to college this fall. While I don’t know him extremely well, I do have two friends who have known he and his family for a long time and both talked about how much he’d changed–more independent, a better idea of his direction, much more conscientious and understanding with other people.</p>

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<p>OP, why don’t you suggest that your son request a leave of absence from his U,[and be sure that he ask that his scholarship be preserved for his eventual return], instead of withdrawing or trying to transfer, which I agree, would be very difficult with his current GPA. I’m sure this would not be the first time a smart student at that U has hit a “wall”, and needs a “time out” to step back and figure out what’s wrong and what he wants to do next.</p>

14

<p>I was going to say the same thing, menloparkmom. My son has a friend who really disliked the college he first entered as a freshman (Northwestern), and he was pretty dead set about transferring and never looking back after freshman year. However he did have excellent financial aid there (even got a non-custodial parent waiver), and didn’t want to burn his bridges utterly. His financial need was enormous, so for that reason alone it made sense to tough it out at NU if it came to that.</p>

<p>He was determined to not go back there, but instead of simply leaving he arranged for a leave of absence.</p>

<p>He took a year off, worked and traveled, and then did get accepted to another great college that was a better fit for him - and got great FA aid there too. Still, had that not worked out, at least biting the bullet and going back to NU was an option.</p>

15

<p>OP: FWIW, my parents (and I, to a lesser extent) had that same picking a major problem. My dad’s transcript is extreme case–22 years of classes (not all full time, of course), a couple of quarters off, and one almost-finished-but-not degree. My mom’s transcript is much more “normal”–4.5 years, focused at the end–but still has a lot of major-switching that can be seen it, even post-degree. What helped mey dad was working, maturity, and, ultimately, NOT going for what he loved. My dad’s big into outdoor recreation (he picked his school solely for this reason , and he still loves it, immensely, to this day). However, he realized that he didn’t want rec management to be his job, at least not while he had a family. Long story short, he worked in a rock lab, majored in engineering (while working full time with two kids), did well in that major, and has been a pretty happy, very skilled engineer (who still LOVES out rec, btw). In my mom’s case, she picked something and majored in it just to be done, bounced around for a few years post-grad at different jobs and took relevant courses. Ultimately she ended up a field semi-related to her major and worked until she had kids. She now works in a part-time job somewhat related to her field, enjoys it, and is good at it. My mom’s always been a diligent, quick-to-learn, and enthauistic worker, but she’s never really had a huge, live-or-die career “passion” (other than her family, I suppose), and I think that’s okay, too. </p>

<p>In my case, I was/am (and I really, really don’t mean this in an arrogant way) a “born writer.” My parents (especially my mom) have wanted me to be a writer or a lawyer (or failing that, a linguist) for a long time, but I went into college wanting to go into health care. For various reasons (the biggest ones being non-academic, btw), I realize that that probably wouldn’t work, and I bounced around, certain, for a semester. I’m a very goal-driven person, so that felt extremely uncomfortable to me. I wound up signing up for a few psych and social work classes (thinking of maybe trying medical SW) and kept my bio minor. My spring semester of sophomore year, I started doing psych research and fell head-over-heels in love with research–which, it turned out, I am apparently quite good at (a lot of crossover with writing, as it turned out). Middle of junior year, I pretty much fell into a paid RAship in another area of psych and knew then that I had found my particular passion in the field. I also started getting some clinical experience fall of junior year and have found I really enjoy that, too.</p>

<p>Your S doesn’t need a passion right away. Contrary to CC, not everyone has a set lufe path at age 14 (yes, I know, some do). It sounds like some “real world” experience could help as well. What has your S done besides take classes? Worked? Volunteered? Gone to presentations? All of those could be just as, if not more, telling than classes themselves.</p>