Transfer to Caltech from MIT?

<p>I'm an MIT student looking to transfer to Caltech, and I was hoping for some advice. Obviously as I've heard from this forum, the official website, and pretty much anything having to do with caltech transfer applications, admission is super competitive.</p>

<p>Anyway, some background about me: I've been at MIT for one year, completed 2 semesters (one pass/no rec., one with a 4.8 on a 5.0 scale), done sports all year. Went to a top boarding school, missed top 5% by a hair with honors classes, was heavily involved in several extracurriculars there, AP scores are 5's on Calc AB and BC, physics C (both E&M and kinetics), and chem. I'm working in one of the research labs at MIT this summer, hoping to continue doing so in the fall (with less hours). </p>

<p>My reason for wanting to transfer: When I applied to MIT, it was sort of the "dream school", the one I'd heard about since I was a kid, I knew that I wanted to be and engineer and I wanted to go to MIT since middle school. What with all this hubub I didn't think how I would fit at the school, I only thought about how I would feel about going to the school I'd dreamed about forever. Mistake, I know. Now I feel lost here. There's no community and I know it's not a big school by any means, but it makes me feel lost. I wish I had gotten further away from home, and I just don't feel like I fit here. I'm going to give it another year (during the transfer app process) but unless things drastically change, I can't imagine spending 3 more years here. The workload is fine, the environment is killing me. </p>

<p>My question: I know caltech does not really hold sports in the highest regard. I've no real extra-curriculars other than that. Will this hurt me? Any other advice on transfering, or caltech, would be appreciated. Thanks so much. I'm so stressed out about this, which is awful - May '10 is 10 months away!</p>

<p>Also, if anyone has anything to say about Harvey Mudd, I'd like to hear it. In comparison to MIT, in comparison to Caltech, whatever.</p>

<p>So sorry to hear you’ve been unhappy in your first year at MIT. The first year of college is a big adjustment and can be rough anywhere; next year might turn out better for you.</p>

<p>As the mom of a Mudder-to-be, I can tell you that I’ve observed a pretty strong sense of community at Mudd, and that I think a student would have to work hard at getting “lost” there. It’s a much smaller college – the entering class is about 10% the size of MIT’s. When my son visited, he was invited on the spur of the moment to eat lunch with a group of students and a prof. Round table, plenty of conversational give and take, and they were very welcoming. This seems to be the norm there. When he sat in on a Physics class, the prof declared it “sidewalk physics day” – he sent the students out in groups to work on problem sets with sidewalk chalk (easier to do in sunny CA than in MA, I imagine). By the end of pre-frosh weekend, he already had a group of pals in one of the dorms and plans to spend time in their man-cave next year. By the way, he’s kind of an introvert. Mudders reach out.</p>

<p>The faculty members who spoke with us parents said that they work there because they love teaching and working with Mudders. The career services administrator told about going to (what I considered to be) extraordinary lengths to make sure good jobs were available to graduating Mudders in the economic downturn. She even arranged a (very popular) 2- or 3-day financial planning workshop to help these very young graduates understand what to do with their very high entry-level salaries. Bottom line, I’m confident that HMC really cares.</p>

<p>Let’s see, what else. Girls. There’s an all-girls’ college (Scripps) right across the street from Mudd. You can take some of your classes there. No kidding. Ditto the other three Claremont colleges (Pitzer, Pomona, Claremont Mckenna), each of which has its own personality and academic focus. But I gather that Scripps is very popular with, ah, roughly 60-70% of the Mudd student body.</p>

<p>I have less to say about Caltech at this time. My son visited there before and after HMC. On the first visit, he loooooved Caltech; it was his clear first choice. On the second visit, he still liked Tech, but he’d just been to Mudd and was head over heels in love with Mudd. After talking with several more Techers, he decided that Caltech would be a great place to be a grad student. And Caltech seniors told him that Tech would rather send its seniors to grad school elsewhere than keep them for another few years (which does make sense from an academic perspective). In the end, he didn’t apply to Caltech, partly because he received his acceptance from Mudd in the ED round.</p>

<p>Techers were friendly and very pleasant, but not in the super-outgoing way of Mudders. Perhaps they’re more reticent in mixed company but they loosen up around other Techers.</p>

<p>You asked about your ECs as an admission factor. Caltech emphasizes that your application must demonstrate a “passion” for math and science. Doesn’t mean you have to have been on your school’s FIRST robotics team, IMO awards, Intel/Siemens finalist, whatever. There are plenty of Techers who don’t have all that jazz on their resumes, but they were able to convince the admission committee (which includes current Techers, by the way) that they truly, madly, deeply love math and science. Which is pretty important for success at a place like that – being crazy about the subject gives you the stamina to pull multiple all-nighters on problem sets when you know your UC counterparts are probably out carousing at a concert or something.</p>

<p>Neither Caltech nor Mudd emphasizes sports in admissions, but plenty of students at each place participate in sports. Both make it pretty easy to participate (D3, intramural) once you’re there. At Tech, the admissions dude said that you can practically walk on and off the basketball team; the coaches understand what comes first. Techers joke that their football team hasn’t been defeated since 1993 (the last year they fielded a team). Seems like they play most sports with great enthusiasm, but not so much with the expectation of actually winning a game. Anyway, sports on your resume will demonstrate that you’re a multi-dimensional person, making sports a plus but neither essential nor hugely advantageous.</p>

<p>Back to Mudd for a moment. In addition to the math/science thing, Mudd emphasizes writing skills in admissions and in the curriculum. Essays are very important. They actually look at SAT/ACT writing scores. The interview (if you request one) is also important. They want to know that you’re going to fit in well with the mission and personality of the place. Having some sort of quirky skill or trait seems almost a requirement at Mudd.</p>

<p>Academically and culturally, we found the two places seemed to have more similarities than differences. Tech has a slight edge on median test scores, but the difference between 780 and 800 is pretty marginal. :smiley: Both places tout their Honor Code systems (24-hour access to facilities, proctored exams, you can leave your dorm room unlocked, that sort of stuff), multi-dimensional students (with plenty of talents and quirks), and Humanities requirements (it’s about a third of the curriculum at Mudd, not that much less at Tech). Both places have demanding workloads and look for “passionate” students. Both have dorms (“hovses” at Tech) with distinct personalities and esprit de corps.</p>

<p>Other differences. Many others have said that Mudd’s campus is “ugly” – we don’t see it that way (it’s got all those trees, and we love trees!), but Caltech’s campus is definitely prettier. Claremont has much more of a “college town” atmosphere than Pasadena. Caltech has grad students; Mudd doesn’t (whether this is positive or negative is up to you). Caltech has more big-name grant-funded research projects (e.g., JPL); Mudd has more socially embedded research/work activities (aka Clinic). Both offer summer research opportunities; the nature of those opportunities may vary. People who don’t know any better hear “Caltech” and think “Calpoly.” People who don’t know any better hear “Harvey Mudd” and think “Harvard Med.”</p>

<p>The two student bodies have a minor rivalry that reflects their similarities and differences. Some Techers call HMC “Caltech East,” and some Mudders call Caltech “Harvey Mudd West.” The rivalry is probably more emphatic on Mudd’s side than on Tech’s, as Mudd is a younger school and has less name recognition. But a Tech admissions dude actually said something snippy about Mudd in a presentation; that surprised me.</p>

<p>All in all, it sounds to me like either place would strike you as more personal and comfortable than where you are now. From your description of your background and your record at MIT, it seems clear that you’d be competitive for admission. Of the two, it would probably come down to personal preference and post-graduation goals… and, of course, which one offers a transfer admission.</p>

<p>Good luck with whatever you decide!</p>

<p>geek_mom- Way to hijack the thread! Gonna need LoJack to get it back.</p>

<p>cmosr - Pasadena’s a beautiful place, but I don’t think that particular change of venue will solve your problem. The work will be just as challenging, but you’ll be a year behind your peers in experience. No sports. And you’ll be leaving Boston, which many acclaim to be the best college town in America.</p>

<p>I’m not saying you should stay at MIT … only that you should have an excellent understanding of what makes MIT “wrong” for you BEFORE considering a change. Student counseling at MIT might be a good place to begin that investigation.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE=Batllo]

geek_mom- Way to hijack the thread! Gonna need LoJack to get it back.

[/quote]

Batllo, you’ll have to try harder than that to “get it back.” The OP posted this in the College Admissions forum requesting information on both Caltech and Mudd. See:
[QUOTE=cmosr]

Also, if anyone has anything to say about Harvey Mudd, I’d like to hear it. In comparison to MIT, in comparison to Caltech, whatever.

[/quote]
Then I guess some moderator over there looked at the title and moved it here. :rolleyes: I was just coming over to say, Oh great, my loooong discussion of Mudd and Caltech has been moved to the Caltech forum, I can hardly wait to see what happens next.</p>

<p>cmosr, one other difference between the two: There seems to be a lot more Techer activity on CC than Mudder activity. Make of that what you will. ;)</p>

<p>funny. i’m a caltech student looking to transfer to mit xD</p>

<p>caltech really is an awesome place though…if you’re feeling lost like there’s no community, well there’s definitely lots of community at caltech. hell there’s too much community, everyone knows everyone else’s business</p>

<p>and you have good grades and you’re from mit so you probably have a good chance. but i really have no idea</p>

<p>good luck man.</p>

<p>My sense from reading other threads is that for transfer students, the placement tests are the most important. From previous threads, I doubt if having few ecs will really matter if you do well on the placement test. This in fact may be a big difference between Caltech & Mudd - I don’t know but does Mudd have placement test - they might look more at ecs. I really don’t know. </p>

<p>As for a smaller community - one can still get lost at Caltech but maybe not as far as at a bigger school like MIT. I think its one of those “your mileage may vary” things. (Sorry to hear Fixix2 that you feel like there’s too much community.) Maybe some of the difference is whether or not you live in your hovse or in one of the apartments as to how close you feel to the community (just a mom’s thoughts looking at my son’s experiences at Caltech for the past 3 years) as well as individual differences and experiences. </p>

<p>While playing a sport may not boost your transfer admissions chances, it certainly won’t hurt. I know of one Techer who never played a certain sport til his Junior year at Caltech and made it all the way to the regional semi-finals in that sport. So coming on to a team or into an individual sport as a Junior shouldn’t hurt you if you’re interested in continuing in your sport.</p>

<p>
[QUOTE=oaklandmom]

This in fact may be a big difference between Caltech & Mudd - I don’t know but does Mudd have placement test - they might look more at ecs.

[/quote]
Good point. I just looked at Mudd’s page on transfer admissions; the application checklist is very similar to that for freshman admissions (Common App with supplement, recs, test scores, transcripts, &c). I was all ready to write that this is a big difference; then I looked at Tech’s page on transfer admissions and saw that pretty much all the same paperwork is required. So the placement exams are the only big difference, I guess.</p>

<p>cmosr, have you looked into enrolling as a visiting student? If MIT would recommend you, it looks like you might be able to do a sort of “year abroad” at Caltech. Provided everything transfers back to MIT, that might be a nice option that gives you a break but doesn’t really set you back. Trouble is it would be junior year, the time when most majors are really gearing up, and it’s often more difficult to get transfer credit within your major. But might be an option worth looking into.</p>

<p>Very helpful information about MIT/Caltech/HMC. 3 schools that are right at the top of my list for some top engineering degrees and some d3 baseball.</p>

<p>I’ve never heard of anyone wanting or attempting to transfer from MIT to Caltech. </p>

<p>IMO, this is too big a risk unless you’re absolutely sure that you will love the new school you’re going to. MIT is a diverse place and seems to offer something for almost everyone. I really enjoyed my four years at Caltech, but I can’t really think of anything justifying such a drastic action. If you transfer, you’ll miss most of the housing system–two years of ditch day, the rotation process, meeting the other frosh, etc.</p>

<p>My friends from HS who went to MIT seemed to enjoy the frats/houses they lived in–perhaps you can look into them since some of them look pretty social and fun.</p>

<p>Transfer students can and often do go through rotation. I think all three of these schools have very different atmospheres, and the best way to get an idea for them is to visit and try to spend some time with students.</p>

<p>My first reaction is identical to webhappy’s. Sure MIT might not be the right place, but MIT really does seem to appeal to a broader number of tastes than Caltech. Could you be more specific, OP, about what in MIT is making you unhappy? That might give some Caltech (or Mudd) students a better chance to figure out what you’d feel like at either of these schools. </p>

<p>I go to a very large school myself, and the trick for me has been to find a subset of the population that connects with me. It can’t be that tough for someone who loves subjects like math, science or engineering to do that. I’d recommend first actively try to build a community of students at MIT; they are all supposed to be pretty friendly people after all. Of course, Caltech sounds like it might be a somewhat better fit if you really value community that much, because it’s easier to get to know people like that, but even so, MIT should be far from impossible to work with. You may find that transferring ends up being anticlimactic.</p>

<p>Good to see such a swell, informative geek_mom post there too. I’m sure that’ll be very helpful in looking inside HMC and Tech.</p>

<p>Maybe fizix2 and cmosr can switch places. :D</p>

<p>cmosr, I have a question: if you fell isolated at MIT, why do you think caltech would be a better idea?</p>

<p>In fairness, I got very different vibes from Caltech and MIT when I visited them both as a prefrosh. Caltech is a lot smaller than MIT (less than 1/4) and that made a big difference in how it felt to me. </p>

<p>You may be correct that MIT appeals to a broader number of tastes, but if you know you’re really into math/science/engineering and you’re looking for a smaller school, it seems like Caltech would be a logical choice.</p>

<p>^^ Can we make a Caltech thread that announces loud and clear to the world that hereafter, “math/science/engineering” := MSE? I think all of those who’ve posted on Caltech’s threads have typed those 3 words out many different times on different occasions…</p>

<p>And no doubt the two schools are different. I just find it tough to believe that someone who dreamed to go to MIT and actually went there suddenly would know exactly why Caltech is better, without having spent a significant portion of time at Caltech. Thinking “small school with MSE focus” might be a little too abstract, no? </p>

<p>Also, while I can imagine someone preferring Caltech, I am always skeptical when someone professes deep dissatisfaction with a school like MIT if they like MSE fields. Sometimes what is causing the dissatisfaction may be elusive, and it sounds almost like going for a change of school may just be an act of desperation. </p>

<p>On a related note, I do not believe in the concept of “one and only true love” in almost any context (rather, I would say love is largely cultivated from some strong base fundamentals), so this may be coloring my viewpoint.</p>

<p>I agree that there’s not a one and only true love, but I also know what it feels like to totally dislike a school despite liking its academic scenario. I really, really did not like Stanford for undergrad (based on my visit) despite thinking the program was good academically. Granted, there’s a larger difference between caltech and stanford than between caltech and MIT, but still. </p>

<p>I think trying to guess if this person is right for Caltech or MIT or neither is a waste of time, honestly, and he/she should just visit and spend some time here and make his/her own decision.</p>

<p>lizzardfire, I have trouble understanding your #16. Would appreciate it if you could further elaborate.</p>

<p>Here’s my attempt at rephrasing my previous post:</p>

<p>There is no one “right college”. For one particular student, even colleges with very similar focuses and academics can be very different due to the social scene (or other factors). A personal example of this for me was Stanford–I really liked the program they had for my major, I though the academic reputation was great, but I did not like the undergrad social scene. I personally feel that the difference between the MIT and the Caltech social scenes is actually pretty big.</p>

<p>Secondly, I think that without knowing someone it is hard to say what college they would fit in at the best and/or enjoy the most. A lot of people in this thread have attempted to tell this student that based on their opinions of the similarities between Caltech and MIT, it does not make sense for the student to transfer. I can imagine situations where it is appropriate for a student to make that particular transfer, because as I said, I view the social scenes as relatively different. Whether it is appropriate for the particular student in this thread to transfer or not is something that I think is very hard to determine, and I’d rather the student make up his or her own mind about it using good evidence than just going on the (what I would view as not fully-informed) suggestions presented in this thread.</p>