<p>Pizzelle:</p>
<p>I see; if you dont like the message, shoot the messenger.</p>
<p>No, I just think it's very bizarre that you put so much effort into discussing it on the internet but take no further action. As I've said 20 times, and I've had to continue repeating myself, you have no evidence or proof to back up your claims. Everything you've said has been pure speculation. There's nothing about what you've said to "dislike" because you're pulling it all out of the air. You have no education in this area, no experience whatsoever, and I'm not even sure you are at a university. Are you a high school student? You have zero credibility.</p>
<p>I am the kind of person who actually tries to change things, or make them better, and you are not. That's what makes this so bizarre. I can't imagine going on and on and on about something on the internet, calling it discrimination and injustice and "SOMEONE BETTER ANSWER TO ME" as though I were incredibly distraught...and then do nothing about it.</p>
<p>Which leads me to the conclusion that either you are incredibly lazy or you don't really care about this issue beyond what you can accomplish in a computer chair. The only "message" you have brought is "wow, mental masturbation is a lot of fun."</p>
<p>Quixotic, </p>
<p>I'm curious. Why are you so opposed to a guaranteed transfer program? What has motivated you to post such strong opposition on a message board that's designed to provide advice for prospective students? Have you been harmed by a school's GTP? </p>
<p>The issue is a community issue that UVa has chosen to address. So, what's your personal stake?</p>
<p>Spicoli:</p>
<p>My parents graduated from UVA. My sister will be junior in high school next year and has wanted to attend UVA since I can remember. </p>
<p>My parents and all their UVA friends (aka alumni) are very, very upset about the Universitys agreement with VCCS. They feel that UVAs ranking will soon be in a free-fall, and the value of their degrees will plummet. They believe that the University will be overrun with students from the guaranteed admission program leaving less and less room for students seeking admission through the normal route. </p>
<p>They believe that University is severely underestimating the number of students who will seek guaranteed admissions. Remember, the community colleges are expecting explosive growth due to the UVA agreement. Even if UVA increases enrollment to accommodate all of these new students, the school will become way too large, which will further erode its academic reputation.</p>
<p>They think students that are competitive at other top universities will shun UVA because they will enter with less credit then those taking DE classes in high school. DE classes dont work as substitutes for AP and IB courses at other competitive schools. In addition, they dont think these students will want to attend a school with large numbers of students who performed poorly in high school, scored poorly on their SATs, had no ecs, etc., but were able to obtain a 3.4 at relatively uncompetitive community colleges. They dont believe any student should be guaranteed admission to UVA, and that each students entire record should be properly assessed before receiving an offer of admission. They cant believe UVA entered into such an arrangement, especially when the school is trying to raise a lot of money from, guess who, their alumni.</p>
<p>Perhaps the fact that the agreement applies to all VCCS students without limitation, residents of Virginia and nonresidents alike, is the most offensive part of the arrangement. Residents of every other state in this union, no matter how poor their high school records, test scores, etc., can enroll as nonresident students in Virginia community colleges, take 54 hours over a two year period (a very light course load if one attends summer sessions), obtain a 3.4 gpa, and receive a guarantee of admission to UVA. However, state residents who attend more competitive schools such as William and Mary, Virginia Tech, JMU, etc. must go through the regular transfer admission process without a guarantee of admission. Virginia community colleges may soon be inundated with out-of-state applicants who are unhappy with their current college options. The fact that UVA is providing a preference in admissions to out-of-state students is appalling. No doubt that Thomas Jefferson himself would offended by that!</p>
<p>Spicoli, who knows, if they don't ruin the place, I might want to transfer some day.</p>
<p>If you really want to go to UVa and don't think living at home or CC is for you, why not go to the branch campus- UVa-Wise? It is in the southwestern part of the state and is a four year school, but a lot of kids transfer to C-ville after 2 years. You can take all the McIntyre rec. classes, etc and then transfer right into that school. Even if you love it there and stay all four years you still get a UVa diploma.</p>
<p>quixotic, if the agreement creates a bonanza for CC students and the program becomes too popular, UVA can simply make changes to increase selectivity. They're not dumbasses. They're not going to steer the University into the sh***er. Your parents' degrees will not go down in value. I know you're smarter and more knowledgeable that the board of trustees, the office of admissions, etc, but I doubt that this program will be UVA's downfall (or anything near it).</p>
<p>kayjo, the UVA-Wise is technically a UVA diploma, but it comes with few of the benefits of attending the Charlottesville campus.</p>
<p>Quixotic,</p>
<p>Quite frankly, it sounds like you, and your parents/friends, are elitist snobs who don't see the value in the University taking an even larger stake in their community. UVa is not a private school. They have an obligation to their community. Perhaps you and your parents aren't aware that 33% of the transfers have always been from the VCCS system. </p>
<p>I'm certain the GTP will only help increase the funding UVa receives from the state. Last I checked, that number was a measily 8% of their annual operating budget. I'm sure this was the bargaining chip they needed.</p>
<p>Um, how does the size of a school negatively impact its academics? Please explain why Michigan hasn't plummeted in the rankings due to their size? They have almost double the size of UVa's undergrad student body and yet they are ranked 25th.</p>
<p>In general, UVa has been turning down far too many qualified applicants. Enrollment is going to steadily increase over the next 5-10 years. The academic rankings will continue to rise, while even more students will benefit from the outstanding education UVa affords. </p>
<p>Yes, the mad VCCS hordes are coming. Lock up your daughters... :rolleyes:</p>
<p>I realize that going to Wise doesn't equal the same experience as Charlottesville, I was just trying to put another spin on this discussion. Seems like many of these posters are losing sight of the fact that UVa is a state school and until they stop receiving state funding, they are required to educate their own residents, and CC admissions is just one option.</p>
<p>I got in with from a VCCS school as a first year transfer. I am pretty schocked that i got in. anyone can send a private message if they wanna no how i did it.</p>
<p>Spicoli:</p>
<p>I am well aware that many VCCS students have transferred to UVA, and I have never voiced the least bit of concern over that issue. I am happy they had an opportunity to attend UVA. Each of them went through the normal admissions process, had their entire records examined, and stood out from the rest off the transfer applicant pool. In other words, they earned their spot at UVA.</p>
<p>I believe I said:
[quote]
No one is saying that community college students should not be admitted as transfers to UVA, only that they should meet the same admissions criteria as any other transfer candidate. It is flat out unfair to give this group a preference in admissions.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Spicoli, why dont you tell us why VCCS students (residents and nonresidents) should receive a special entitlement that is not available to any other Virginia resident whether they are currently attending Harvard, William and Mary, or Old Dominion University? Why should VCCS students have a RIGHT to something that is merely a PRIVILEGE for everyone else? Why shouldnt VCCS students earn their admission to UVA in a fair competition? Why does UVA better serve the community by accepting a VCCS transfer applicant over one from Virginia Tech, if the Tech applicant is more deserving? </p>
<p>Once a university starts handing out entitlements, it opens its admissions process to manipulation, which is exactly what will happen at UVA. Why do you want to take admissions decisions for VCCS students out of the hands of the Admissions Office? Do you have no faith in them? Are you saying that the Admissions Office has been unfair to VCCS applicants in the past? Why are preferences/entitlements/guarantees necessary for VCCS applicants? Spicoli, why dont you answer these questions?</p>
<p>What evidence do you have that the state will increase funding if UVA accepts more students from VCCS? I thought the University was seeking more autonomy in its finances (ability to set their own tuition rates) from the state. It appears that the University gave up autonomy over its admissions process in return for more autonomy over its finances.</p>
<p>As far as size goes, most people understand that the quality of a university is primarily composed of the quality of its students and the quality of its faculty. The larger you make the university, the less selective it becomes. Look at the top rated schools and review the size of their student bodies. Then look at some large state schools such as Ohio State University and University of Texas. Even though they are the flagship universities of some rather large states, they are not ranked in the top 25. Maybe there is a correlation.</p>
<p>As far as the University of Michigan goes, it is located in a state with a significantly larger population (over 2.5 million more residents), a larger proportion of its student body is from out-of-state, and it does not have a competing state university with comparable admissions standards (e.g., William and Mary). Even when you adjust for all of those factors, UVA still has higher SAT scores, higher GPAs, a lower acceptance rate, and a higher ranking. In addition, Michigans undergraduate reputation is enhanced by some of its well-regarded graduate programs. </p>
<p>UVA has always been one of the top state universities because it has managed to keep its enrollment under control. Of course, Virginia offers other fine universities for those unable to gain admittance to UVA. Even then, UVA provides an opportunity for students who were initially rejected to prove themselves and transfer at a later date. This system has worked fine for many years; so if it isnt broke, why fix it? </p>
<p>Significantly increasing enrollment at UVA is simply not compatible with increasing its ranking. </p>
<p>In short, Admittance to UVA should ALWAYS be a PRIVILEGE and NEVER a RIGHT!</p>
<p>How is anyone receiving a special entitlement? Pretty much all Virginia students have an equal opportunity to attend a CC and then transfer into UVA. If they choose to go to Vtech or what not and then go to UVA then they have forgone that 'special entitlement'.</p>
<p>Let's not forget VCCS schools are two-year institutions, the above-mentioned schools in VA are 4 year schools. VCCS students in essence are encouraged to prepare themselves for college rigor through these programs that are cheaper and easier to transfer within Virginia. VCCS students should be given opportunities such as guarantees because the sole of reason of VCCS is to give out two-year degrees that should be used to tranfer to a 4 year school. For these students that want to transfer from other schools, they should be given less consideration than a VCCS student becaue they have the luxury of attending a 4year institution and want to go from good to better whereas CC students have no recourse in the event they dont get into a college. The partnership between these colleges and VCCS is what helps VCCS continue to thrive and maintain as one of the best CC systems in America. A decrease in quality of the schools or the rankings of schools involved in such an agreement is simply not true. All the schools that have been involved in this agreement, most notably, GMU, WM, Tech, have not suffered from such a problem and even an increase in their rankings. in fact GMU and Tech have become "hot" schools as of late</p>
<p>Okay, i'm not going to a UVA community college... can we get back on topic because i'd like some help.</p>
<p>What is the deal with McIntire admissions? Do they rarely accept transfers from other schools, and take the bulk of their transfers from inside the university? </p>
<p>If that's the case, would I be better off applying to CAS as an Econ major and later transferring to McIntire after I apply for my admission to the school? Is CAS easier to get into than McIntire? </p>
<p>Is McIntire a 4 year school, or do you apply after a certain year (freshman, sophomore)?</p>
<p>It's unfortunate that the topic went a different direction, but that's what happens when an OP leaves their topic 'unattended' for 10 days.</p>
<p>McIntire is a 2 year undergrad commerce school. You apply after your second year. They have a information for transfer students on their site.</p>
<p>Okay, so McIntire wants me to go 2 years at another school, then transfer into McIntire, rather than have me go a year at another school, then transfer to the university, and apply for McIntire admission while i'm at the University. They don't want me transferring into CAS, then applying for McIntire?</p>
<p>No, because you'd already be enrolled in UVA and transfer just as the rest of the students do. I think you can apply for CAS and complete the pre-reqs and transfer like any other student</p>
<p>Is it true that the GPA for transfer students drops by around one full point compared to their old college gpa? Im waitlisted at UVA as a transfer but I'm not really sure if I would go because as great of a school UVA is, i'd be afraid that I would not be able to keep up a 3.4-3.5 GPA that most students get if they want to go into the business school. The school i'd be transferring from is nowhere near as rigorous as UVA so I wouldnt really want to go to UVA with the intention of majoring in business but then have to change my major the next year if I don't get into the business school.</p>
<p>Sv3a & Firebird74t:</p>
<p>First, the UVA Agreement is effective March 31, 2006, so many of the individuals who will be transferring during the next two years didnt even know they were forgoing a special entitlement when they made their decision.</p>
<p>Second, lets consider the following examples:</p>
<p>Student #1. Graduated in the top 10% (just barely) of his high school class. His high school was located in a wealthy suburban area. He had strong SAT scores, but they were a little below average for UVA. He took a number of AP/IB courses and devoted significant time to his extracurricular activities. He applied to UVA, was waitlisted and decided to attend Virginia Tech. He wanted to attend a four-year college and have a residential college experience; however, he also wanted to take some advanced classes during his first two years that were simply not available at the local community college. At Tech, he continued to work hard, he wrote for the student newspaper, and participated in community service projects. He took at least 15 hours every semester and did not shy away from tough courses. He applied to UVA as a transfer student at the end of his sophomore year with his 3.47 gpa. </p>
<p>Student #2. Graduated in the 3rd quarter of the same high school that Student #1 attended. Student #2 is reasonably bright, but preferred partying to studying. He didnt take any AP/IB classes, had no ecs, blew off the SAT, and made no immediate plans to attend college. Of course, his parents were concerned. During the summer, they told their son of their plan to get him into UVA. They wanted him to take a minimal course load at the local community college, never more than nine hours in a semester, nor more than six hours during an entire summer.* They told him that there was no need for him to work if he really focused on his part-time course load; they promised to get him a tutor for any classes that might cause him the slightest trouble. They also assured him that he would still have plenty of party time. As an added incentive, they promised to buy him a BMW to take with him to UVA if he met all of the requirements. Student #2 followed the plan and squeaked by with a 3.42 gpa and met the Universitys other requirements.</p>
<p>Student #3. Graduated in the top 25% of his relatively poor, rural high school. He lived with his mother and his two siblings. He worked many, many hours during his high school and community college days in order to help his family get by. He also spent a lot of time helping his younger siblings with their schoolwork. Otherwise, he took the same community college classes over the same period of time as Student #2. He was the first in his family to attend any type of college. He squeaked by with a 3.42 community college gpa while meeting UVAs other requirements. </p>
<ul>
<li>[Apparently, one only needs to apply to UVA within two years of obtaining an AA, not complete all coursework for an AA within two years.]</li>
</ul>
<p>Most would agree that Student #3 had to deal with significant hardships in life, and most could understand why he might deserve a spot at UVA over Student #1. Student #3 could easily detail his life experiences in an essay.</p>
<p>But, there is no reason in the world why UVA should be forced to accept Student #2 over Student #1. Just because Student #2 does not secure a space at UVA does not mean that he is locked out of the states other four-year universities.</p>
<p>These examples illustrate why universities have admissions offices. UVA should be able to consider more than a gpa in community college courses taken over an unlimited period of time in making an admissions decision. UVA should be permitted to distinguish the manipulators from the deserving.</p>
<p>Perhaps all community college graduates should be guaranteed a space at one of Virginias four-year universities instead of specific school. Each school could then evaluate each student on their merits against that schools entire transfer applicant pool. </p>
<p>As far as the impact of these agreements go, the Virginia Tech Agreement became effective in the fall of 2005, and the William and Mary Agreement was only signed on April 15, 2006 (after the UVA Agreement). I dont see how anyone can assess the impact of these agreements at this point.</p>
<p>It is also interesting to note how different the William and Mary Agreement is from the UVA Agreement. The William and Mary Agreement requires:</p>
<p>A cumulative 3.6 gpa in community college courses,</p>
<p>That at least 45 hours of community college classes be completed AFTER high school graduation (no deferred enrollment juniors at W&M),</p>
<p>That a letter of intent to attend W&M be filed after the completion of 15 hours of community college credit and at least one year prior to the intended date of matriculation,</p>
<p>Continuous enrollment in community college after the filing of the letter of intent,</p>
<p>That a student matriculate at W&M on the date specified in the letter of intent or be subject to space limitations,</p>
<p>That a grade of B or better be earned in 9 listed courses, etc.</p>
<p>It looks like it is a whole lot tougher to obtain a guaranteed transfer to William and Mary than to UVA.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.so.cc.va.us/vccsasr/VCCS_CWM.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.so.cc.va.us/vccsasr/VCCS_CWM.pdf</a></p>
<p>Quixotic,</p>
<p>Please try not to take this the wrong way, but I'm very concerned for your mental health. Please seek help.. Go to your Student Health Center and get some counseling.</p>
<p>At least think about it, m'kay?</p>
<p>Have a good life.</p>
<p>JayHova, that's the same concern I have. I'm thinking of transferring to McIntire, but i'm thinking that if I try and transfer there Junior year directly to the B-School that I won't get in, as it seems admission would be more competitive for non-UVA students as there are hundreds of UVA students that would have an advantage.</p>
<p>However, if I transfer into CAS sophomore year, take classes there, and get a crappy GPA, then I wouldn't be able to get in McIntire, stuck in a school without a major. That's the dilemma you're facing now.</p>
<p>Or maybe I should just stay at MSU... this is why i'm glad i'm directly admitted to their B-School, don't have to worry about admissions... and i'm also glad I didn't do the CC route. Gives me flexibility if I mess up in college.</p>